Spring lawn maintainence

[Eazy716]

I know this isn't necessarily garage related, but it is general..... and I know there's a wealth of knowledge around these boards so I figured I would ask here. Apologies if this is against any rules, etc.

I'm planning on getting a few yards of topsoil and compost to fill some(various sizes and depths) eneven spots in my yard. I also plan to have the yard rolled and will be having the 5 spray treatments throughout the spring/summer/fall.

My question is whether I should have the lawn rolled before I fill the low spots or after? I keep going back and forth in my head on the pros and cons of both scenarios. Hoping someone here has some experience with this.

Greatly appreciate any input/feedback. Thanks.

 

[theoldwizard1]

Roll first. Fill low spots and roll them. Seed. It is still cool enough that you only have to water once or maybe twice a day when it does not rain.

If you want to have the greenset lawn on the block, find and old fashioned feed store (probably have to drive out of town) and buy a bag of 19-19-19 "farm" fertilizer (the bag will just say 19-19-19) You have to apply this BEFORE the temps are in the 70s. Spread it at the same rate you do any other fertilizer.

This is a fast release fertilizer.It will be 100% in the ground after the first rain. Stand back, get the mower tuned up and sharpened because you grass will grow like crazy ! This is an excellent late fall (mid-late Oct) fertilizer, but only when the average day time temp drops below 70.

 

[kv501]

Roll first. Fill low spots and roll them. Seed. It is still cool enough that you only have to water once or maybe twice a day when it does not rain.

Rolling is generally a bad idea and will only (partially) flatten a lawn for a very short amount of time. The bumps in a lawn are caused mostly by frost (if you have it) and by earthworm activity which are signs of a healthy lawn. If you roll it not only are you compacting the top soil which is counterproductive, but you will have the same bumpiness in a few weeks. Just avoid it.

If you want to have the greenset lawn on the block, find and old fashioned feed store (probably have to drive out of town) and buy a bag of 19-19-19 "farm" fertilizer (the bag will just say 19-19-19) You have to apply this BEFORE the temps are in the 70s. Spread it at the same rate you do any other fertilizer.

No disrespect here (I appreciate the vast majority of your posts), but this is terrible advice. If you apply a 19x3 fertilizer at the same rate as say, the bag rate on a common 10-10-10, you're putting double the nitrogen down which is probably going to burn your lawn or at the very least stress it badly. Bag rates are there for a reason and I can't tell you the number of people I've helped because they just set their spreader where a friend told them to and dumped fertilizer on their lawn. If you are comfortable with the math then calculate the pounds of nitrogen per thousand sq feet you want and weigh out what your spreader puts down. If not, stick to bag rates.

In the cool season grass zone the best thing you can do for your lawn in the spring is this:

1. Core Aerate and leave the plugs on the lawn. They'll be gone in a few days. (Don't roll it! Soil compaction is bad)

2. Apply a fertilizer with a 30~ish nitrogen number AT THE BAG RATE. You can get it with or without a crab grass pre-emergent. If you plan on seeding (I wouldn't) don't use the pre emergent because it will kill the desirable grass seed also. Scott's Turf Builder w/ Halts for crabgrass is the most common one but you can get generics cheaper. Just look at the fert numbers.

3. Mulch mow as high as your mower will go. These things will give you a super healthy start to your lawn for the year.

This is a fast release fertilizer.It will be 100% in the ground after the first rain. Stand back, get the mower tuned up and sharpened because you grass will grow like crazy !.

No such thing. Nitrogen, Phosphorus, and Potassium (the 3 numbers in fertilizers) are just that; Nitrogen, Phosphorus, and Potassium. There is nothing in a fertilizer that makes it fast release. If it's granular it needs water to work in the soil whether that's rain or your hose.

Side note, I would highly suggest NOT seeding in the spring. It rarely goes well and is just a waste of money. Seeding should be done in the fall when the seedlings don't have to compete with weeds and rapidly growing existing grass. Bluegrass needs at minimum 2 weeks twice daily waterings to germinate (Fescue blends maybe a week or so). It also needs good contact in well-drained, uncompacted soil (hence the "don't roll your yard" thing). And guess what happens when you water twice daily? Stronger weeds and faster growing existing grass. If you don't trust me (I wouldn't blame you), you can easily google any of the topics I mentioned. Do your research and don't follow good ole' boy advice.

 

[Kaizen]

only time I would ever roll a lawn is if I was putting down sod. sounds like you have subscribed to the commercial idiot approach to lawn care. sorry but not needed. consistent fertilization results in roots not needing to reach deep for food. its just a packaged thing for them to make more money like extended warrantees.

the one thing you did not mention was seed. if you are going to seed any of this new soil make sure they don't spray a crabgrass preventer which is normally step one. no seed will grow with this sprayed. if you are just adding to low spots so the grass that's there will grow up through it i'd probably just go with sand. add a little over the summer and it will eventually level out. loom is ok if you are doing new seed on those spots. careful on the compost. if its not fully composted it might burn the seeds if you are planting.

 

[kv501]

only time I would ever roll a lawn is if I was putting down sod. sounds like you have subscribed to the commercial idiot approach to lawn care. sorry but not needed. consistent fertilization results in roots not needing to reach deep for food. its just a packaged thing for them to make more money like extended warrantees.

the one thing you did not mention was seed. if you are going to seed any of this new soil make sure they don't spray a crabgrass preventer which is normally step one. no seed will grow with this sprayed. if you are just adding to low spots so the grass that's there will grow up through it i'd probably just go with sand. add a little over the summer and it will eventually level out. loom is ok if you are doing new seed on those spots. careful on the compost. if its not fully composted it might burn the seeds if you are planting.

The sand thing doesn't work generally. There is a reason why grass/crops/plants in general don't grow well in sandy soil. There's no organic matter and it will wash away anyway.

The slow build up approach you mentioned does work well, but it needs to be done with a loamy soil (black dirt) in order for it to both stay put and keep the sod healthy. When you add sand essentially all you're doing is throwing billions of tiny little glass beads on your lawn. They add nothing to the turf.

Just add about an inch of loose black soil to the area per week (watering it in slightly) and avoid mowing it until it's raised up where you want it.

 

[Chris705]

I love this site! Always great responses by folks who know best!!! So cool to learn new things!

 

[cork]

What do you experts recommend for crabgrass? I always apply Scotts Crabgrass preventer in the early spring but I still have many areas of crabgrass.

 

[Kaizen]

The sand thing doesn't work generally. There is a reason why grass/crops/plants in general don't grow well in sandy soil. There's no organic matter and it will wash away anyway.

The slow build up approach you mentioned does work well, but it needs to be done with a loamy soil (black dirt) in order for it to both stay put and keep the sod healthy. When you add sand essentially all you're doing is throwing billions of tiny little glass beads on your lawn. They add nothing to the turf.

Just add about an inch of loose black soil to the area per week (watering it in slightly) and avoid mowing it until it's raised up where you want it.

yes you have a valid point. op said various depths indicating impressions so all the sand is doing is moving the roots up over time. if it was a wash away situation I would go with loom. other reason for my suggestion is this ideally should be done over the course of the summer. I know last time I had a mountain of loam delivered for this purpose by the time a month went by I had more weeds growing on it then the lawn. sand probably won't.
a more labor intensive way to do this would be to cut the sod of the area and peel back then add loom to get it up to height. quicker but a lot of work.

 

[kv501]

What do you experts recommend for crabgrass? I always apply Scotts Crabgrass preventer in the early spring but I still have many areas of crabgrass.

Pre-emergent is a touchy thing, it has to be applied when the soil temp is correct (when crabgrass is germinating). Too soon and it gets washed away by rain, and tool late and it won't do anything because it has no affect after it sprouts.

 

[Kaizen]

What do you experts recommend for crabgrass? I always apply Scotts Crabgrass preventer in the early spring but I still have many areas of crabgrass.

kind of what I was referring to before. everyone is programmed to just do it. in my area of nh it should be put down before spring. problem is the snow. I've seen it in some years when we had deep snow cover that the crabgrass has started before the snow is all melted. the preventer basically prevents any seeds from growing. however they just sit dormant till the preventer wears off. crabgrass sows its seeds in mid to late summer. and if you pull it at that time you're doing the job better for them. in your situation i'd recommend using a sprayer and spot treat this summer. also put your mower/tractor on the highest setting. if the grass is tall the less light gets to the seeds to allow them to germinate. you'll never get rid of all of them but this keeps them manageable. use a mulching mower/blade will put free nitrogen right back into the grass and add topsoil over the year. if you mow and the grass is visible mow it again to mulch it in or rake it off. you should not mow the stem part. this does not decompose well and makes thatch.
and if you don't have a bug problem don't spend the money on the bug step. just put down normal fert or better off half the application and let the grass grow deep looking for the food. I think of these "required" five steps" (which by the way in 2001 were only 4 steps) as giving the grass exactly what they need in equal parts all year long. but if you have beer in your fridge do you go looking for more? nope. so neither will the roots. no deep roots and you have to water all the time or it burns. also any grubs will destroy a patch because not enough roots to feed the grubs and keep the grass alive. all cause and affect.

 

[FoxDen]

For crabgrass control, consider using a product that contains Quinclorac. Examples of this are Drive, Drive XLR8, Paramount, Facet or even generics just called "Quinclorac". If you would like any specific help, IM me and I can give you some detailed information on my personal experiences. I am an Agronomist, don't take everything that is said in this thread for fact.

 

[machsnell]

Seeding in the spring is a bad idea unless you have a majority of shade in your yard or havent had many grassy weeds (crab and foxtail) in your yard previously.

Or if you have money to burn and are irrigated and can afford to do post emergents and seed NOW.

Best option is to out down pre emergent (pendamethalin) with fertilizer and try and not allow grassy weeds to get a hold.

Then do your post emergent sprays for broadleaf weeds and then grub and insect control.

THEN in late august early september aerate and spread topsoil and seed the hell out of the lawn and put down a starter fert (high middle number phosphorous) and you will have a clean weed free(r) lawn that will get some maturity to go into winter and will be mature going into next summer.

Seeding in spring is tough without irrigation because the grass is too young when the heat.of summer comes in.

If.you got loot and dont care topsoil seed and water and post emergent for crabgrass etc.

Dont roll unless its sod on ground is freshly graded/disturbed and fairly wet. Compacting the soil and roots is generally bad. Only way that would be a wise idea is if you core plug aerated after you rolled.

Now let's hear 4 more opinions from others.....

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

 

[WWShop]

Don't roll. Waste of time. And 5 spray treatments? What exactly is being sprayed? I always do a pre emergent (needs to be timed right), weed and feed towards end of June, straight fertilizer around labor day and then I fertilize again right before grass goes dormant. I don't over water and I spot spray weeds as needed and my lawn always looks good. Also I would recommend aerating every other year. Sorry if I'm repeating others but I always have great success with this method.

 

[theoldwizard1]

Rolling is generally a bad idea and will only (partially) flatten a lawn for a very short amount of time. The bumps in a lawn are caused mostly by frost ...

So what do you recommend for frost heaves ?

No disrespect here (I appreciate the vast majority of your posts), but this is terrible advice. If you apply a 19x3 fertilizer at the same rate as say, the bag rate on a common 10-10-10, you're putting double the nitrogen down which is probably going to burn your lawn or at the very least stress it badly.

I have been doing this FOR YEARS ! The key is getting it down in early spring BEFORE the average temp hits 70.

3. Mulch mow as high as your mower will go. These things will give you a super healthy start to your lawn for the year.

I start a bit lower in spring, but by June I am at the max height !

No such thing. Nitrogen, Phosphorus, and Potassium (the 3 numbers in fertilizers) are just that; Nitrogen, Phosphorus, and Potassium. There is nothing in a fertilizer that makes it fast release. If it's granular it needs water to work in the soil whether that's rain or your hose.

Most "commercial" lawn fertilizers are SLOW release. "White bag" fertilizer have nothing to slow the release of the nutrients.

Side note, I would highly suggest NOT seeding in the spring. It rarely goes well and is just a waste of money. Seeding should be done in the fall

I have to agree. I have had better luck seeding in fall, especially large areas.

 

[sixty4]

I know this isn't necessarily garage related, but it is general..... and I know there's a wealth of knowledge around these boards so I figured I would ask here. Apologies if this is against any rules, etc.

I'm planning on getting a few yards of topsoil and compost to fill some(various sizes and depths) eneven spots in my yard. I also plan to have the yard rolled and will be having the 5 spray treatments throughout the spring/summer/fall.

My question is whether I should have the lawn rolled before I fill the low spots or after? I keep going back and forth in my head on the pros and cons of both scenarios. Hoping someone here has some experience with this.

Greatly appreciate any input/feedback. Thanks.

I always roll the lawn (or spots) after I seed and use seed fertilizer to have a good seed contact. Then use chopped hay on top, then water to keep moist until germination. Also Jonathan Green makes a product called Love your lawn love your soil that really makes the lawn pop.

 

[Chevy-SS]

Rolling is generally a bad idea and will only (partially) flatten a lawn for a very short amount of time. The bumps in a lawn are caused mostly by frost (if you have it) and by earthworm activity which are signs of a healthy lawn. If you roll it not only are you compacting the top soil which is counterproductive, but you will have the same bumpiness in a few weeks. Just avoid it..

I've got a VERY bumpy lawn. Mowed it today on my ZTR sit-down mower and my back was getting hammered.

I really need to do something. Are you saying it would be better to aerate versus roll?

Many thanks

-

 

[zzflattop]

Lots of great information here! I have a lot of work ahead of me...

 

[machsnell]

I've got a VERY bumpy lawn. Mowed it today on my ZTR sit-down mower and my back was getting hammered.

I really need to do something. Are you saying it would be better to aerate versus roll?

Many thanks

-

If main goal to get turf areas smoother..

Are the bumps from uneven ground or from clumps of grass.

If uneven ground fill what is really low w topsoil and wait.for a good soaking rain when ground is soft and use a decent size smooth drum vibratory roller and roll two different directions. Then use an aerator to loosen soil.

Should get you close to where you want to be.

If it doesnt work hire a guy with a harley rake on bobcat or a tractor and it will cut and roll and shave it completely flat. Do in fall and seed away.

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

 

[WWShop]

If you roll your lawn to remove bumps it isn't accomplishing anything, other than compacting your soil. If you roll you are make the low areas just as hard as the high spots so you will never accomplish a flatter yard. Aerify if you have a bumpy yard. This breaks up the soil, breaks up the roots and gives you a healthier yard. Aerify in spring and late fall if necessary but I only do it every other in late fall.

 

[Farmall450]

Rolling is generally a bad idea and will only (partially) flatten a lawn for a very short amount of time. The bumps in a lawn are caused mostly by frost (if you have it) and by earthworm activity which are signs of a healthy lawn. If you roll it not only are you compacting the top soil which is counterproductive, but you will have the same bumpiness in a few weeks. Just avoid it.



No disrespect here (I appreciate the vast majority of your posts), but this is terrible advice. If you apply a 19x3 fertilizer at the same rate as say, the bag rate on a common 10-10-10, you're putting double the nitrogen down which is probably going to burn your lawn or at the very least stress it badly. Bag rates are there for a reason and I can't tell you the number of people I've helped because they just set their spreader where a friend told them to and dumped fertilizer on their lawn. If you are comfortable with the math then calculate the pounds of nitrogen per thousand sq feet you want and weigh out what your spreader puts down. If not, stick to bag rates.

In the cool season grass zone the best thing you can do for your lawn in the spring is this:

1. Core Aerate and leave the plugs on the lawn. They'll be gone in a few days. (Don't roll it! Soil compaction is bad)

2. Apply a fertilizer with a 30~ish nitrogen number AT THE BAG RATE. You can get it with or without a crab grass pre-emergent. If you plan on seeding (I wouldn't) don't use the pre emergent because it will kill the desirable grass seed also. Scott's Turf Builder w/ Halts for crabgrass is the most common one but you can get generics cheaper. Just look at the fert numbers.

3. Mulch mow as high as your mower will go. These things will give you a super healthy start to your lawn for the year.




No such thing. Nitrogen, Phosphorus, and Potassium (the 3 numbers in fertilizers) are just that; Nitrogen, Phosphorus, and Potassium. There is nothing in a fertilizer that makes it fast release. If it's granular it needs water to work in the soil whether that's rain or your hose.

Side note, I would highly suggest NOT seeding in the spring. It rarely goes well and is just a waste of money. Seeding should be done in the fall when the seedlings don't have to compete with weeds and rapidly growing existing grass. Bluegrass needs at minimum 2 weeks twice daily waterings to germinate (Fescue blends maybe a week or so). It also needs good contact in well-drained, uncompacted soil (hence the "don't roll your yard" thing). And guess what happens when you water twice daily? Stronger weeds and faster growing existing grass. If you don't trust me (I wouldn't blame you), you can easily google any of the topics I mentioned. Do your research and don't follow good ole' boy advice.

Very good.

The only exception I would add is Milorganite, where bacteria in the soil slowly breaks it down (we are talking months). Hence a 40# bag covers 2500 sqft.

 

[ambenz]

Up here in the north, I ran a lawn comber to bring up the matted grass and dead mulch, allowing the fertilizer with crabgrass preventer to do a better job and help the sod multiply and grow without restriction.
Here's a video about lawn combers...

If you suspect salt damage from driveway and sidewalks adjacent to the lawn, I will put down some pelletized limestone to aid in a less acidic lawn and to help breakdown the clay I have in my soil.
All these things, along with keeping your grass tall as possible helps in keeping your lawn green!
I see a lot of people cut there grass short and the it burns out and goes dorment so they don't have to cut it...pure laziness, or they can't afford the water bill.
It's getting to the point where I might be letting my lawn go dormant here too...such a shame.
Lake Michigan is 40 miles away and I can afford to water my lawn...

 

[K'ledgeBldr]

Asking this type of question on an open forum will yield truths, half-truths, and just downright bad/wrong information.

You're always better off contacting your local extension service for advice on lawncare. Between agriculture professionals, master gardeners, and years of local knowledge will get you the best answers/results.

Here's some guidelines specific to WNY.
http://erie.cce.cornell.edu/resources/thurn-handouts

And for those of you who were throwing fertilizer around- NY is a phosphate free state. You can't use fertilizer with phosphates (legally).

If you have specific questions about lawn prep, filling, and seed contact a master gardener in your local area; or the Cornell University Extension Service.

 

[laser3kw]

Asking this type of question on an open forum will yield truths, half-truths, and just downright bad/wrong information.

You're always better off contacting your local extension service for advice on lawncare. Between agriculture professionals, master gardeners, and years of local knowledge will get you the best answers/results.

parts of the second statement contradict the first part. Some of the most dubious advice comes from "the professionals". A few years ago, I had the lawn to back that up!

 

[matt_i]

If you are getting a bad back from a no suspension ZTR you can always go with a Farmall Cub or Super A to cut your grass. Suspension seat plus tires with an OD that's double or triple to smooth out the ride

 

[bobcatdan]

I know a lot of professional lawnscapers and I get the same general response in regards to lawn rolling. To have any lasting effect, it has to be done after ever rainfall threw out the entire summer. It's stupid to recommend this service to customers so they don't. Also, don't thatch until August.

 

[WWShop]

What do these fertilizer companies use for a roller? I was in the golf course maintenance business for many years and we used a small roller on the greens to speed them up for putting and we used a huge roller, filled with water and pulled behind a tractor, that was used to try to flatten frost heaves quicker. Rolling to flatten the frost heaves didn't lower the high spots, so we just let them settle naturally, which they always did.

 

[03fan]

So I'm new to lawn maintenance and my 1/4 acre yard is a little rough, but nothing terrible. The best way to smooth it out is to fill in the low spots with new soil and then rake some of the high spots down?

I have few spots I need to reseed in a few weeks anyways because of adding a ground rod to the garage and the previous owners removing the swing set.

 

[nh_yota]

I haven't seen this one piece of advice mentioned yet - get a soil test done! They are not expensive and the results will tell you which nutrients your lawn has enough of and which ones it needs more of.

Here in New Hampshire the UNH Cooperative Extension offers soil testing and all you have to do is take a few soil samples and mail them in. I suspect many other universities in other states offer the same service.

 

[WWShop]

So I'm new to lawn maintenance and my 1/4 acre yard is a little rough, but nothing terrible. The best way to smooth it out is to fill in the low spots with new soil and then rake some of the high spots down?

When we moved into our new house last year the yard was absolutely terrible. Weeds everywhere and low and bare spots. I did the fertilizer routine that I mentioned earlier in this thread and I bought several bags of topsoil. I mixed grass seed and topsoil in my wheelbarrow and filled in all low and bare spots. I started in spring and by end of summer the yard looked terrific. I would be careful with raking down high spots because you will just tear out your grass. If there aren't too many high areas I would just cut out the grass, remove the excess soil, and replace the grass you cut out.

 

[03fan]

When we moved into our new house last year the yard was absolutely terrible. Weeds everywhere and low and bare spots. I did the fertilizer routine that I mentioned earlier in this thread and I bought several bags of topsoil. I mixed grass seed and topsoil in my wheelbarrow and filled in all low and bare spots. I started in spring and by end of summer the yard looked terrific. I would be careful with raking down high spots because you will just tear out your grass. If there aren't too many high areas I would just cut out the grass, remove the excess soil, and replace the grass you cut out.

I'll give that a try. Thanks!

 

[WWShop]

I'll give that a try. Thanks!

I forgot to add that if you do cut out grass to remove soil, make sure you give those patches of sod plenty of water so the roots can re-establish.

 

[Chevy-SS]

If you are getting a bad back from a no suspension ZTR you can always go with a Farmall Cub or Super A to cut your grass. Suspension seat plus tires with an OD that's double or triple to smooth out the ride

My no-suspension ZTR mower is only 2 years old and it works great. It's the lawn that is causing the bumpy ride.

What do you mean about "....tires with an OD that's double or triple...."

Thanks

 

[WWShop]

My no-suspension ZTR mower is only 2 years old and it works great. It's the lawn that is causing the bumpy ride.

What do you mean about "....tires with an OD that's double or triple...."

Thanks

Overall Diameter

 

[Eazy716]

Thanks to all for the information and insights. I always value the input from members of this board. So much knowledge to be shared and it is greatly appreciated.

 

[mrrooG8]

I'm using the KISS rule for my lawn this year. Our area needs lots of lime. I have lots of big oak trees and moss. Most all old timers tell me the same thing, use lots of lime through out the year to swing the pH level slowly and use 19-19-19. Both are cheap. My lawn has not been touched in over 2 years. No one lived there till we just moved in a little over a month ago. It needs some help. So I aerated (plug style) a few weeks back and spread a bunch of lime and 19-19-19. I'm waiting to mow till its good and high. We will see what happens this year...

 

[D45]

Dandelions, I hate dandelions........other than specifically spraying each one with a $12 bottle, is there a dandelion or week specific granule I can use?

 

[miketyler]

You can use the cheap hose end sprayer product for broadleaf weed control. Average price is around $5-$7. It will have dandelions curling up in agony in 24hrs. Doesn't seem to harm Bermuda grass.

 

[Kaizen]

I'm using the KISS rule for my lawn this year. Our area needs lots of lime. I have lots of big oak trees and moss. Most all old timers tell me the same thing, use lots of lime through out the year to swing the pH level slowly and use 19-19-19. Both are cheap. My lawn has not been touched in over 2 years. No one lived there till we just moved in a little over a month ago. It needs some help. So I aerated (plug style) a few weeks back and spread a bunch of lime and 19-19-19. I'm waiting to mow till its good and high. We will see what happens this year...

to add.....that lime advice is for pulverized lime (powder). pelletized lime works over time so a nice even change. you can still put pelletized down multiple times a year but over application should be watched. like you say slowly change. and anyone wondering if you should get a plug or spike aerator....get the plug. I have the spike and even weighed down I only get 2 inches of depth. but its skinny where a plug hole has way more surface area. also with plugs if you want to amend your **** soul you can rake up the plugs and spread in loom.

 

[Farmall450]

Dandelions, I hate dandelions........other than specifically spraying each one with a $12 bottle, is there a dandelion or week specific granule I can use?

Any 2,4, D Mecoprop & Dicamba weed killer.

 

[FunBags]

I was just thinking of what I had to do to my lawn, this thread helped me out!