Sprinklers: Need some advice

[Reborn]

Hi all,

I know this isn't garage related, but I know there are tons of people on here that can help me out. I've got a patch of grass in my backyard, with sprinklers running the edges. In the middle, I've got some dead areas, so I need to tee off a line and add a couple of heads in the middle. Simple enough, but I want some advice.

There are 2 logical locations to tap from because I can go straight across to add one head in the middle, and then turn 90 degrees from the new head and run along the middle, adding the second head. So here are the 2 locations:

1.) Add a tee from the vertical. What I would have preferred because it is a main line. I basically want to run it in both directions (the missing direction is toward the middle), but as you can see, I will have to dig very deep due to the various connectors, then re-extend the vertical and put in my new T fitting to replace the 90 degree one. My consternation here is that I'm not a pro, and I'm already getting pretty deep with what my basic gardening tools will allow. I can keep going, but it will be a real pain, so before I do, I want to consider options 2 and 3.

2.) Do a less professional job and tee off the more accessible horizontal line with a very short run, then turn 90 degrees and head toward the middle.

3.) Opposite the yard from option 1, we have a sprinkler head. I dug down, and it is also very deep to find the main line, but can I just tee off the riser? I know I will have a couple of step downs in diameter, but most of my new run will still be the regular size PVC pipe - my question is, will the 2 new heads not get enough pressure because of these few step downs? My total run length to the first new head (from either location) is about 4 feet, and then another 4 feet for the second new head. I feel like it would be ok, but want some opinions from people who would know.

White fitting is the same as pvc size, but the riser fittings inside result in a step down in ID.

Any insight would be greatly appreciated! Gotta love sprinklers

 

[The Cobbler]

you want to be sure the extra sprinklers don't affect the performance of the ones you're tapping in to. systems are often calculated based on flow & pressure . adding 2 more heads may affect the proper performance of the existing .

 

[Reborn]

you want to be sure the extra sprinklers don't affect the performance of the ones you're tapping in to. systems are often calculated based on flow & pressure . adding 2 more heads may affect the proper performance of the existing .

I’m worried about that as well. But I figure it’s worth a shot. If the overall performance becomes unacceptable with the additional heads, then I’ll have to pay a pro to run a whole new line for me.

 

[pattenp]

Is your system a DIY? How many heads and what type are on the zone you want to add to? What size is the main line for the zone? What size line feeds each head off of the main zone line? Do you know the supply PSI of the zone?

 

[Reborn]

Is your system a DIY? How many heads and what type are on the zone you want to add to? What size is the main line for the zone? What size line feeds each head off of the main zone line? Do you know the supply PSI of the zone?

I did not put in the system. There was an existing system when I bought the house, and I had pros do the landscape before we moved in (just back in Nov/Dec). They also re-did the plumbing, but I'm sure they used what they could with the existing plumbing. I didn't think to look at how they plumbed the zones because I wasn't thinking straight (had a lot of projects going trying to get the house move-in ready). What I do know is this: there are 2 zones for the grass area in the backyard, each with about 10 sprinkler heads (I can go get exact counts if it matters). I don't know the main line size for the 2 zones, but the pvc pipes I have found by digging (that feed the heads) are 3/4." No clue on the supply pressure either. The grass looked great up until 2 months ago. I spent a lot of time searching for buried heads and found 2 (but in areas where the grass still looked good). I gave up trying to find buried heads in the 'dead zone' - they may be there, but I just can't find them, and since I don't know for sure that they're there, I chaulked it up to the grass having just enough water to survive in winter/spring conditions, but not enough with the summer heat and sun.

 

[WhiffySpark]

You can nozzle down if you lose pressure. Depends on how many you plan to add too

 

[Reborn]

You can nozzle down if you lose pressure. Depends on how many you plan to add too

Could you elaborate on this? I only need to add 2 maximum (may get away with one, but I'll plumb the second while I'm at it, and cap it if they overlap too much.

 

[Reborn]

I made a rough schematic to help show what I'm up against. Red x's mark roughly where I want to add heads. The reason I don't have a dead area further to the right is that the yard narrows. The open area to the left is the other zone, and that zone is nice and green with the existing heads.

 

[Git]

...

1.) Add a tee from the vertical. What I would have preferred because it is a main line. I basically want to run it in both directions (the missing direction is toward the middle), but as you can see, I will have to dig very deep due to the various connectors, then re-extend the vertical and put in my new T fitting to replace the 90 degree one. My consternation here is that I'm not a pro, and I'm already getting pretty deep with what my basic gardening tools will allow. I can keep going, but it will be a real pain, so before I do, I want to consider options 2 and 3.

In your first pic, I am not sure why you consider it more 'professional' to T into the Horizontal Pipe instead of the Verticle? What am I missing

They make a T just for what you want to do. You apply PVC cement to both parts, the T snaps over the existing line and when the glue dries, you drill a hole into the pipe and connect your new pipe.
http://www.sprinklerwarehouse.com/Slip-Snap-Tee-p/463-007.htm

When it comes to installing the actual sprinkler, I always use these pre made "funny pipe" assemblies. One end has one 90 degree fitting, the other end has two 90 degree fittings. You screw the end with just the one fitting into your pipe and it now allows you to change the elevation - so if your pipe is too deep or too shallow. The other end with the two 90's allow you to position the sprinkler straight up and down

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Toro-3-4-in-Funny-Pipe-Assembly-53785/100212332

 

[Git]

Could you elaborate on this? I only need to add 2 maximum (may get away with one, but I'll plumb the second while I'm at it, and cap it if they overlap too much.

Sprinkler nozzles have different 'flow rates', indicated in gallons per minute. You only have so much water available on a sprinkler circuit and if you have too many spray heads, you won't have enough pressure to run the zone properly. If that was the case, one solution would be to replace the nozzles with ones that have a lower flow rate - so they won't be spraying as much water as before. You then run the zone longer to make up for it

If you are not already using the more advanced nozzles like the 'MP Rotators', that would be the first thing I would do. A lot of times you water company will have free rebates, and you may get better coverage with them and not even have to add additional sprinklers

example
https://www.homedepot.com/s/toro%20mp%20rotators?NCNI-5

 

[Reborn]

In your first pic, I am not sure why you consider it more 'professional' to T into the Horizontal Pipe instead of the Verticle? What am I missing

They make a T just for what you want to do. You apply PVC cement to both parts, the T snaps over the existing line and when the glue dries, you drill a hole into the pipe and connect your new pipe.
http://www.sprinklerwarehouse.com/Slip-Snap-Tee-p/463-007.htm

When it comes to installing the actual sprinkler, I always use these pre made "funny pipe" assemblies. One end has one 90 degree fitting, the other end has two 90 degree fittings. You screw the end with just the one fitting into your pipe and it now allows you to change the elevation - so if your pipe is too deep or too shallow. The other end with the two 90's allow you to position the sprinkler straight up and down

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Toro-3-4-in-Funny-Pipe-Assembly-53785/100212332

I meant going off the vertical would be more professional, because you have one tee location instead of two. I realize this doesn’t matter. I went ahead with option 2 and used a regular tee by digging out a little more to allow the pipe to flex.

Great tip on the “funny pipe” piece - never seen that before. I’m almost done but when I lay the new piping in the trench, I may run out and get one rather than fine tune the trench depth.

Sprinkler nozzles have different 'flow rates', indicated in gallons per minute. You only have so much water available on a sprinkler circuit and if you have too many spray heads, you won't have enough pressure to run the zone properly. If that was the case, one solution would be to replace the nozzles with ones that have a lower flow rate - so they won't be spraying as much water as before. You then run the zone longer to make up for it

If you are not already using the more advanced nozzles like the 'MP Rotators', that would be the first thing I would do. A lot of times you water company will have free rebates, and you may get better coverage with them and not even have to add additional sprinklers

example
https://www.homedepot.com/s/toro%20mp%20rotators?NCNI-5

Oh, gotcha! I think I have some generic nozzles but for now I’m adding just one head. If I see issues I’ll go ahead and get some lower flow nozzles for the whole circuit.

Thanks everyone. Hopefully will report back tonight with a positive conclusion.

 

[Git]

If you go with the 'funny pipe' pay attention to the size of the fittings, they come in 1/2" and 3/4". Also, you will need a T fitting that has a slip connection on the ends and a threaded connection for the T part. At the end of the run, you can either use a 90 that is slip x threaded or a union with a threaded reducer

Here is an example how the funny pipe (also called a swing joint riser) comes in handy

 

[pattenp]

I really believe adding two more heads is not going to be a problem as long as you currently have good pressure. The main zone valve may not adjusted to full open so you may want to check if you can crank the volume up if needed. As stated you can usually adjust your heads if needed or change a pressure regulator to take care of flow reduction because of adding two more heads to a zone.

 

[ard]

1. If you can add heads, you don't need 'a pro' to add a new line. Just saying

Some real abominations installed by 'pros' too.

2. Add up the flow rates of all the heads on the adjacent circuit. Compare it to the circuit you are trying to fix. You may find the reason for the dead spots is too many heads, not enought flow rate to throw water to the center.

3. Research the existing nozzles you have. What are the specs? Generally I like 100% overlap. So a 12 ft wide strip has nozzles rated on each side for a 12 ft throw. Not 6 ft throw meeting in the middle. Just an example.

4. I've redone almost 100% of the 'pro' stuff I have paid for....I wound up putting in low volume rotors down the center of a lawn because it was poorly designed. A rotor can throw further than a 360 spray for the same volume, but needs longer to deliver X gallons. You can adjust time on the control, the is no setting for 'throw'

Dig in, it isn't rocket science by a long shot...

 

[JazzBlueRT]

How big is the yard and where are the dead spots. Your existing layout should be adequate. Do you have a bad or clogged sprinkler head? Did you test the zones to ensure all the sprinkler heads are popping up? Did you test the zones to see how far they are throwing? Did you test the pattern and adjust? Did you test the aim and adjust? Did you test your water pressure?

Did you test for fungus, pathology or bug infestation to make sure the dead spot isn't caused by disease or pests?

Your ultimate goal should be to have as hew sprinkler heads and as few zones as possible.

https://www.rainbird.com/homeowners/how-order-your-irrigation-design-plan

 

[xyster101]

How big is the yard and where are the dead spots. Your existing layout should be adequate. Do you have a bad or clogged sprinkler head? Did you test the zones to ensure all the sprinkler heads are popping up? Did you test the zones to see how far they are throwing? Did you test the pattern and adjust? Did you test the aim and adjust? Did you test your water pressure?

Did you test for fungus, pathology or bug infestation to make sure the dead spot isn't caused by disease or pests?

This.. Go place a coffee can in the middle of the yard and see if it gets water. If it doesn't, then remove the filters in the sprinklers and clean them. Then try to adjust the current sprinklers to see if any water reaches that area.

You can surely give it a go adding another line with option 2. Just T off the top of the horizontal pipe with the largest pipe you can.

 

[Reborn]

If you go with the 'funny pipe' pay attention to the size of the fittings, they come in 1/2" and 3/4". Also, you will need a T fitting that has a slip connection on the ends and a threaded connection for the T part. At the end of the run, you can either use a 90 that is slip x threaded or a union with a threaded reducer

Here is an example how the funny pipe (also called a swing joint riser) comes in handy

Thanks for that. The picture really cleared up how it could come in handy.

I really believe adding two more heads is not going to be a problem as long as you currently have good pressure. The main zone valve may not adjusted to full open so you may want to check if you can crank the volume up if needed. As stated you can usually adjust your heads if needed or change a pressure regulator to take care of flow reduction because of adding two more heads to a zone.

I ended up adding just one for now. I don’t notice any difference in the other heads so it looks like it worked just fine.

1. If you can add heads, you don't need 'a pro' to add a new line. Just saying

Some real abominations installed by 'pros' too.

2. Add up the flow rates of all the heads on the adjacent circuit. Compare it to the circuit you are trying to fix. You may find the reason for the dead spots is too many heads, not enought flow rate to throw water to the center.

3. Research the existing nozzles you have. What are the specs? Generally I like 100% overlap. So a 12 ft wide strip has nozzles rated on each side for a 12 ft throw. Not 6 ft throw meeting in the middle. Just an example.

4. I've redone almost 100% of the 'pro' stuff I have paid for....I wound up putting in low volume rotors down the center of a lawn because it was poorly designed. A rotor can throw further than a 360 spray for the same volume, but needs longer to deliver X gallons. You can adjust time on the control, the is no setting for 'throw'

Dig in, it isn't rocket science by a long shot...

Not sure on my current heads, but I’d guess 12’ cause they go pretty far. I guess instead of putting in an additional head, if it’s needed, I could refresh all the heads and I’ll at least know what I’m working with.

I have almost no overlap at the center, but the grass is green (must get enough water) as you go right. The yard widens as you go left, hence the dead spot.

I generally agree about pros and like to DIY as much as possible. But I wouldn’t tackle a full line install because of the amount of trenching required.

 

[Reborn]

How big is the yard and where are the dead spots. Your existing layout should be adequate. Do you have a bad or clogged sprinkler head? Did you test the zones to ensure all the sprinkler heads are popping up? Did you test the zones to see how far they are throwing? Did you test the pattern and adjust? Did you test the aim and adjust? Did you test your water pressure?

Did you test for fungus, pathology or bug infestation to make sure the dead spot isn't caused by disease or pests?

Your ultimate goal should be to have as hew sprinkler heads and as few zones as possible.

https://www.rainbird.com/homeowners/how-order-your-irrigation-design-plan

Wow. I didn’t do any of those things, though eyeballing it, each head has really good coverage. I’ll have to take some measurements tomorrow to make a better diagram. I did originally think I had a buried head. I found 2 buried heads in the other zone (that is doing ok). I searched a bunch and just couldn’t find one. It either didn’t exist or it’s really well buried. I did close each head on the 2 zones and it still didn’t pop up.

This.. Go place a coffee can in the middle of the yard and see if it gets water. If it doesn't, then remove the filters in the sprinklers and clean them. Then try to adjust the current sprinklers to see if any water reaches that area.

You can surely give it a go adding another line with option 2. Just T off the top of the horizontal pipe with the largest pipe you can.

I stood there instead, lol. Not much water hitting the middle. That’s what I ended up doing earlier today (option 2). I am going to adjust all the heads and check their filters l, but as I mentioned, the coverage is quite good. If I could get a bit more then I definitely won’t need a second additional head.