Square D QO busbar, portable gen hookup

[matemike]

I want to install a breaker and portable generator hookup to back feed my sub panel that supplies the house. When I pulled the panel cover I discovered that there are no more spots on the bus bars. The cabinet is definitely large enough for bigger bus bars. Is there a way to replace the existing bus bars with bigger ones without having to swap out my whole panel? It is built into the sheetrock in the wall.

If not,

Then what I would do is utilize the only 2 pole breaker in the panel (which is for the dryer plug) and feed my generator in through that breaker whenever there is a power outage (hopefully very rare). We wouldn't need the clothes dryer for that time and I'd just swap it back after the outage and generator is put away. Basically the gen hook up will be installed outside but live it's life with wires ran to the panel, but disconnected until needed.

FWIW, my electricity meter and main source come into my main panel outside in my backyard. That main panel has no main breaker for shut off, but it does have 5 breakers. They are for the pool pump, pool light, AC, range, and house main. I will always open the house main breaker before feeding my generator into the house panel so I don't back-feed the line or anything else on that main panel. My house sub panel is in the garage.

 

[yeldogt]

Have you checked your codes?

Sounds like you can do a proper transfer at the line to the house ....

 

[aandpdan]

Without an approved interlock - to prevent backfeeding, what you suggest is against Code.

You may "always open the house main breaker" but what about the day that you aren't home and the power goes out? What if your spouse or kids decides they can hook up the generator too?

 

[matemike]

Yes. Was told I can install what I need in my panel which is the house panel in the garage because the electric company doesn’t care what I do with that once it branched off their panel.

I had an electrician look at the main panel and he was scratching his head on how to not backfeed the main source if we jumped into the house breaker in the main panel via a transfer switch.

Jumping directly into my house sub panel is the only way we could figure this out. And which I would not need him for.

I may have someone else come take a look.

 

[American Locomotive]

So you're saying the meter panel in your back yard has no main disconnect, and you have breakers directly powering specific devices in your house in that panel?

Is that even to code? Doesn't that violate the NEC by having multiple supplies going to a single building?

 

[matemike]

So you're saying the meter panel in your back yard has no main disconnect, and you have breakers directly powering specific devices in your house in that panel?

Precisely. If one had to work on anything in this panel, the electric company would need to be called for a disconnect in the meter box, just to the left.

 

[Aceman]

Replace the exterior QO panel adjacent to the meter with a main breaker style with more spaces so you can install an interlock kit.

 

[alfredeneuman]

Is that even to code? Doesn't that violate the NEC by having multiple supplies going to a single building?

No.
NEC 230.71
(A) General. The service disconnecting means for each service permitted by 230.2, or for each set of service-entrance conductors permitted by 230.40, Exception No. 1, 3, 4, or 5, shall consist of not more than six switches or sets of circuit breakers, or a combination of not more than six switches and
sets of circuit breakers, mounted in a single enclosure, in a group of separate enclosures, or in or on a switchboard or in switchgear. There shall be not more than six sets of disconnects per service grouped in any one location.

He only has 5

 

[wyliesdiesels]

I want to install a breaker and portable generator hookup to back feed my sub panel that supplies the house. When I pulled the panel cover I discovered that there are no more spots on the bus bars. The cabinet is definitely large enough for bigger bus bars. Is there a way to replace the existing bus bars with bigger ones without having to swap out my whole panel? It is built into the sheetrock in the wall.

If not,

Then what I would do is utilize the only 2 pole breaker in the panel (which is for the dryer plug) and feed my generator in through that breaker whenever there is a power outage (hopefully very rare). We wouldn't need the clothes dryer for that time and I'd just swap it back after the outage and generator is put away. Basically the gen hook up will be installed outside but live it's life with wires ran to the panel, but disconnected until needed.

I doubt you will find larger bus bars for the panel but what is the make and model of the subpanel? post a pic....

And the dryer circuit/outlet will need to be 4-wire in order to be able to properly hookup the generator if you are using a 120v/240v generator.

As to just shutting off the main breaker, this is a huge no no. dont do this.

FWIW, my electricity meter and main source come into my main panel outside in my backyard. That main panel has no main breaker for shut off, but it does have 5 breakers. They are for the pool pump, pool light, AC, range, and house main. I will always open the house main breaker before feeding my generator into the house panel so I don't back-feed the line or anything else on that main panel. My house sub panel is in the garage.

If you dont need to power anything on this main service panel during a power outage, then just go the interlock route on the house subpanel.

But i see a potential issue in this panel. It looks like your house subpanel feeder is only 3-wire. It should be 4-wire. Can you take the cover off your subpanel take a couple pics and post them here.

Yes. Was told I can install what I need in my panel which is the house panel in the garage because the electric company doesn’t care what I do with that once it branched off their panel.

I had an electrician look at the main panel and he was scratching his head on how to not backfeed the main source if we jumped into the house breaker in the main panel via a transfer switch.

Jumping directly into my house sub panel is the only way we could figure this out. And which I would not need him for.

I may have someone else come take a look.

I highly doubt the electric company owns that 6 space sq D QO main service panel. That is owned by you.

as to feeding that panel with generator power, there is no way to do so without backfeeding the grid.

So you're saying the meter panel in your back yard has no main disconnect, and you have breakers directly powering specific devices in your house in that panel?

Is that even to code? Doesn't that violate the NEC by having multiple supplies going to a single building?

looking at pics of his 6 space main service panel, it is attached to his house and therefore there is no violation because it is in the same structure as the circuits.

The code youre thinking of would apply to 2 buildings and multiple circuits feeding between them.

Precisely. If one had to work on anything in this panel, the electric company would need to be called for a disconnect in the meter box, just to the left.

this would be a great time to upgrade this junk to a combination meter main with a main breaker.

 

[mark-NJ]

Buy a transfer switch. Just do it.

(disclosure: I'm an engineering project manager in the generator industry)

 

[theoldwizard1]

Wylie is correct (he always is) ! Replace that panel with a with a main breaker panel and more spaces. Also buy an interlock kit.

 

[nadogail]

Wylie is correct (he always is) ! Replace that panel with a with a main breaker panel and more spaces. Also buy an interlock kit.

My opinion too.

 

[Bert_]

Let's see the house panel in the garage. If all the loads you want to power come out of that there's no reason to mess with the service panel outside.

I would not call the outside panel junk. Not at all.