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Square foot coverage and prep questions...

1-3-2-4

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Hello all,

After doing some research on this board (great info!), I'm just about ready to begin my project. I'm in the process of deciding on a brand at the time, but Epoxy Coat seems like a viable option. However, their 'full' kit says it is good for a 2-2.5 car garage OR 500 ft2. My garage is 539 ft2...will one full kit be enough to stretch or will I need more. The 500 ft2 kit seems to be the standard among vendors, so the question remains regardless of brand.

Also, my garage floor is currently uncoated and about 20 years old. Overall, it is in great condition for it's age. It has some stains on it and I pressure washed it it few weeks back. I plan to use all the cleaners and etches obviously, but what about grinding? Some use it, some don't. I'm not a flooring expert, but I honestly didn't think my floor needed to be resurfaced. Can anyone add any insight?

Thanks,
Nick
 
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SimpleManLance

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i personally would rather grind the floor then acid etch it. how i look at it is. you can grind a 500 sq ft floor in about 2 hour tops. that is if you stay at it and are not affraid of some dust. then you run a good vacumn job on it and your ready to coat. to etch the floor you have to do all the steps required then you have to wait how ever long it takes for the floor to dry and the moisture that you put into the floor to disapate. from what ive read on here that can take days/weeks. i would just rather just grind the floor in a couple of hours then coat it the same day. that is just my opinion.

if you do etch the floor i would take and grind the bad spots first to open up the concrete so the acid will really penatrate.
 

AlphaGarage

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Will a kit be enough? That's tough to answer without knowing how much material is in a kit, and what depth of coverage you want or need per manufacturers specs. I can't speak for other products, but I can use ours to show how we figure out how much material is needed for a specific job, as an example we'll use your 540 ft2.

We sell our garage epoxies in a 3 quart kits and 3 gallon kits. Both the primer/clear coat (BondTite 1101) and the body coat (LiquaTile 1184) are 100% solids, so the amount you buy and put down is the amount that you'll have after it all cures (not always the case). We also factor in 10% waste, material left on the brush, in the cans etc.

For most home and shop applications we recommend a 3 coating system for maximum durability and lasting appearance. The primer coat would be our BondTite 1101, (a 100% solids epoxy with extremely tenacious grip strength) we spec a 5 mil coating. That would be followed with a 12 mil coat of LiquaTile 1184, (a pigmented epoxy that withstands shock and impacts, protecting the concrete). Finally another 5 mil clear coat of BondTite 1101 to help resist abrasion and chemical spills and give the floor a durable high gloss finish.

One gallon of epoxy (or for that matter all liquids) will cover 1,604 ft2 to a depth of 1 mil. As mentioned we spec 5 mil for the primer and 5 mil for the clear coat, for a total of 10 mils of BondTite 1101. So you need 540 x 10 = 5,400 mils. 5,400 / 1,604 = 3.36, the gallons needed without waste factored. So now we factor in the waste: 3.36 x 1.1 = 3.70. So we'd spec a 3 gallon kit and a 3 quart kit of BondTite 1101. The BondTite 1101 would be split evenly, with half being used as the primer coat, and the other half being reserved and eventually used as the top clear coat.

For the body coat we recommend 12 mils, so the math is... 540 x 12 = 6,480, the total mils required without waste. 6,480 / 1,604 = 4.03, now factor in waste... 4.03 x 1.1 = 4.44 , total gallons required. So we'd suggest a 3 gallon kit and two additional 3 quart kits.

With those recommended materials, combined you would have a floor coating system with a nominal thickness of 24.5 mils not including waste. After it's all said and done, including that waste material that gets tossed out, you'd probably be pretty close to putting down 22 mils of wet epoxy, and if it's 100% solids, you'd end up with about 22 mils of cured epoxy.

Now then, what if you're not using a 100% solids epoxy? Then you need to find out what the percentage of solids is. For example let's use 60% solids. Just multiple the wet mils you put down by 60% to see what the final cured coating thickness is. If you put down 9 mils wet it would be 5.4 mils dry.

In summation you just need to know:
-the square feet you need coated
-the recommended coverage
-% solids
-packaging sizes
 
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1-3-2-4

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Thanks for the help guys. What size grinder is recommended? I'd have to rent something...

Alpha, I sent you a message through your web page. Thanks.
 
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1-3-2-4

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Update: after reading your replies and doing some research on the site, I've decided to grind the floor. Sounds like a lot of work, but I'm skeptical of my ability to acid etch the floor properly...and I don't want chemicals flowing down my drain into the yard. If I'm going to do the project, I may as well do it correctly. At any rate, a local rental shop will rent me a 7" grinder w/ vac for $35/day plus the grinding head(s). Not unreasonable, IMO.

All I have to do now is figure out what brand epoxy to use.
 

SimpleManLance

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Update: after reading your replies and doing some research on the site, I've decided to grind the floor. Sounds like a lot of work, but I'm skeptical of my ability to acid etch the floor properly...and I don't want chemicals flowing down my drain into the yard. If I'm going to do the project, I may as well do it correctly. At any rate, a local rental shop will rent me a 7" grinder w/ vac for $35/day plus the grinding head(s). Not unreasonable, IMO.

All I have to do now is figure out what brand epoxy to use.

grinder and a vacumn for $35 doesn't seem bad at all. how much extra are the grinder heads and what grinder heads do you get?

i would also recomend a resperator too. it will get dusty. also cover up anything you dont want to get dust on. after you grind make sure to clean the filter. also the corners by the garage door track always seem to be a pain to get clean. make sure you vacumn those extra good, or else when your paintbrushing around there you will have dust all over the brush.

as for the grinders. i use matabo and bosch grinders. i was going to get a picture of the grinder today while i was in the work trailer but i forgot my camara.
 
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1-3-2-4

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grinder and a vacumn for $35 doesn't seem bad at all. how much extra are the grinder heads and what grinder heads do you get?

i would also recomend a resperator too. it will get dusty. also cover up anything you dont want to get dust on. after you grind make sure to clean the filter. also the corners by the garage door track always seem to be a pain to get clean. make sure you vacumn those extra good, or else when your paintbrushing around there you will have dust all over the brush.

as for the grinders. i use matabo and bosch grinders. i was going to get a picture of the grinder today while i was in the work trailer but i forgot my camara.

Not sure about the heads since it doesn't come with any...I supply those. Looks like Home Depot has some from $35 on up...same old story, you get what you pay for.

I was planning on getting some sort of mask. I worked with my father, a contractor, for years while in high school and college and learned early on the benefit of resperators. Plaster dust = uck.

I believe the grinder is made by Matabo although the grinder/vac assembly is a catchy name I don't recall...

Is there a concern for contamination if I grind and vacuum the floor then wait a few days to coat? I'm still trying to decide on a brand (Epoxy coat and Wolverine are the top runners right now) and would like to get the prep work done ASAP.
 
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SimpleManLance

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Not sure about the heads since it doesn't come with any...I supply those. Looks like Home Depot has some from $35 on up...same old story, you get what you pay for.

I was planning on getting some sort of mask. I worked with my father, a contractor, for years while in high school and college and learned early on the benefit of resperators. Plaster dust = uck.

I believe the grinder is made by Matabo although the grinder/vac assembly is a catchy name I don't recall...

Is there a concern for contamination if I grind and vacuum the floor then wait a few days to coat? I'm still trying to decide on a brand (Epoxy coat and Wolverine are the top runners right now) and would like to get the prep work done ASAP.

you might get a little contamination but if you keep it closed up you should be fine. also when you vacumn up buy one of these ends. take the brush part out( it pulls out) and then take a razor knife and cut the extra tabs off so you will have a nice flat surface. when you angle the vac wand just the right way you will get crazy suction on the floor and it will pull all the dust out of the floor. you should accually be able to see where you vacumned the floor at. make sure you keep the filter clean though. for that i usually take the fiter off and hold on to one end and bang it back and forth in the vacumn bottom (wet/dry vac) the filters are pretty durable.

http://fp.vendaria.com/vpop/VpopViewer.html?uid=100049833&iid=AddpfzvImumvmKvJJIIKfwKILumLKv&bg=FFFFFF&nm=BZOpener&err=0&title=&pf=t&fr=t
 
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1-3-2-4

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Thanks for the info (and response).

So, in all honesty, how much of a difference is there between a one coat kit and 3 coat kit like yours (or what you recommend, anyway). I can see both sides of the argument: one coat engineered to go down once with no threat of contamination between layers...but how optimal is one layer?

OR, a good primer makes sense followed by a clear to lock everything in. Makes some sense to me. But, then I've read stuff about clear coats yellowing, peeling, etc. At the end of the day, I don't mind paying for quality but I need to know it will last. Unfortunately, my silver spoon came tarnished, lol.
 

AlphaGarage

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Thanks for the info (and response).
So, in all honesty, how much of a difference is there between a one coat kit and 3 coat kit like yours (or what you recommend, anyway). I can see both sides of the argument: one coat engineered to go down once with no threat of contamination between layers...but how optimal is one layer?

This was recently asked in the WCC forums, I'll post their answer in full:



First, I'm assuming that you are talking about BondTite 1101. And, this is an EXCELLENT question! I'll start out by saying that the adhesion of BondTite 1101 or LiquaTile 1184 is superior to any products that we have tested in our laboratories!

The logic behind what amount of prep is needed all goes back to the expectation of how long a coating will last. I've heard many people say that everything we need to know about life is learned in kindergarten. I'm not sure that's 100% accurate but... let's go with it for this discussion. So... what about the 3 little pigs?

The First Pig & the House of Straw:
The first pig didn't feel like he needed a really strong house so using something other than straw wasn't worth the effort. Building a house of straw would last a few years and the first little pig decided that if it lasted a few years he could just build another house. So, since he built a cheap house and used cheap materials there was no point in wasting energy on a foundation.

The second pig & the stick house:
The second pig wanted his house to last a little longer so he used a stronger material (sticks) that the first pig (straw). The construction was very similar but the second pig figured that since he was using a stronger material that he didn't really need to go to all of the trouble of building a foundation. After all, he was only planning to live in this house a short time.

The Third Pig and the House of Bricks:
This pig didn't like to waste time. He was a proud pig and knew that one of the 7 laws of gold was to "Make of your House a Profitable Investment". So, he would seek to use high quality materials and make a house that would last a long time. So, he used good strong material (bricks). Since he was using a good strong material that he knew would last, he also deciding to protect that material with a good strong foundation. And, when the big bad wolf came calling, his house was the only one that took the punishment.

The products that you see that advertise a coating without the use of a primer are not designed to last a long time. Obviously, if a coating system is not going to last then there is no point spending alot of extra work on it. When our LiquaTile 1184 is applied properly it will take a major amount of abuse. The first applications of this product that were installed in heavy duty industrial environments are STILL in service. So, a coating system like this may last longer that the actual house if it's done right! So, because the expectation of life is so much longer than other coatings it makes sense to give it a strong foundation.

Next, you have to consider how epoxy coatings bond to concrete. 95% of epoxy coatings on the market (maybe more) bond by filling up pores in the concrete and then hardening. So, the better the filling of the pores the more adhesion you will get. You can kind of equate these coatings to pancake batter. If you've ever made pancakes before you know that the more pancake mix you add to the water the thicker it gets. If you dump water on concrete (with no pancake mix in it) it will soak right in (fill the pores). However, if you take the same water and add a couple of scoops of pancake mix to it and THEN pour it on the concrete, it just barely fills and pores and sits on top of the concrete. Paint works the same way. A clear epoxy like BondTite 1101 does not contain any fillers (like the pancake batter mix) that impeded the flow into the pores. So, it will have greater adhesion because it can penetrate lower into the pores. While that one advantage greatly increases the adhesion over other competitive coatings, BondTite 1101 ALSO gains adhesion from a chemical reaction that happens with the concrete. In other words, not only does it fill the pores deeper than other products, but it also chemically becomes part OF the concrete before it hardens in the pores. When adhesion tests are done on BondTite 1101, the concrete deep beneath the surface must break for a failure to occur. Another positive feature of the BondTite 1101 is that it is NOT moisture sensitive. Many of the products that don't use a primer are cheap waterborne materials. You'll notice that even though they are waterborne they MUST be applied to a DRY surface. The BondTite 1101 may be applied to a damp surface... not wet... but damp is OK unlike these other products.

So, it all boils down to what you are looking for. If you want your floor to last... it's like anything else... Start with a good foundation!
///

Here are a couple of examples posted by forum members... "Wolverine primer bondtite pulls off concrete when removed"
OR, a good primer makes sense followed by a clear to lock everything in. Makes some sense to me. But, then I've read stuff about clear coats yellowing, peeling, etc. At the end of the day, I don't mind paying for quality but I need to know it will last. Unfortunately, my silver spoon came tarnished, lol.

All epoxy will color shift if exposed to enough UV light. How much is tough to predict, it depends on the application, length of exposure, direction of light, color of pigment, etc. Sometimes its very noticeable, other times not at all. We do offer a full sunlight, outdoor durable, urethane if this is a concern. It replaces the BondTite 1101 as a clear coat.
 
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SimpleManLance

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All epoxy will color shift if exposed to enough UV light. How much is tough to predict, it depends on the application, length of exposure, direction of light, color of pigment, etc. Sometimes its very noticeable, other times not at all. We do offer a full sunlight, outdoor durable, urethane if this is a concern. It replaces the BondTite 1101 as a clear coat.


Can you elaborate? Not sure I follow...


i was talking about upgrading to the urethane clear instead of using the bondtite 1101 clear.

i dont know all the details of urethanes. but from what ive been told and my hands on experience with epoxy clears and urethane clears. urethanes are harder. by harder i talking about harder to sratch. uretanes are more runnyer(water like) so they level easier. and they have UV protection.
 
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