Squares/magnets for welding?

[Everett_45]

I'm going to be getting a welder for myself soon, and need a bit of advice regarding squares and magnets when trying to accomplish 90 degree joints. I'm no expert welder and have had no real training, but I would call myself proficient with a MIG welder. I've used the red magnets we all know, and have had mediocre results. They never seem to be square in the first place, and don't help all that much to keep your work square. I don't have much other experience making 90's so I'm not sure what people use typically. What I really need is a Fireball square, but the cheapest option is $80. What do you guys use for things like this? Speed squares, carpentry squares, machinist squares, jigs, etc.?

 

[matt_i]

I like the machinist squares because they stand up with the thick back on them.

But, its just a gauge. Lightest tack you can make, tweak it from there with a hammer or clamp and then another tack.

I do have a magnet block with an on-off switch which works reasonably well for what it is but it can make the arc do some wild dancing stuff if one gets too close.

There are 90 degree vises out there which give decent access to the work on opposite sides.

 

[thejimmy]

bit of advice regarding squares and magnets when trying to accomplish 90 degree joints.

They never seem to be square in the first place, and don't help all that much to keep your work square.

I may be reading your post wrong, it kinda sounds as though you are expecting the magnet to keep the joint square while welding??

 

[Everett_45]

I may be reading your post wrong, it kinda sounds as though you are expecting the magnet to keep the joint square while welding??

I should rephrase, "They never seem to be square in the first place, and therefore don't help all that much to square up your work."

 

[dr_clyde]

I find magnetic tools pretty useless for fab work. They just aren't very good at anything, and always end up covered in grinding grit.

Plus I do a ton of stainless and aluminum.

I use mostly common framing squares and combination squares. I also use machinists tools like angle plates and 123 blocks to set up weldments.

How you weld a joint has more to do with squareness than what tools you use to check it.

A good tape measure and a nice 12" combination square are the most useful for me.

 

[sberry]

I don't really use them either, this should not be on the first tool list. A speed square, a combo and framing. You cannot have too many 11R vise grip and some smaller ones. Then some screw clamps and few pieces of angle and plate for clamp ups.

 

[laser3kw]

go to your favorite metal supplier and get a couple of lengths of heavy angle iron. A nice 6 x 6 x 3/4 used to square things up with generous use of c-clamps. But as others state, you must tack, check, tack, check and stagger welds to keep things straight.

 

[sberry]

A lot of this work is done with a tape measure rather than a micrometer too. Like the brackets on the snow blade above, wanted them square enough they didn't look crooked and general tack in couple directions to hold it but,,,, didn't check and reckeck, all it does is get big ole plow spring in an eye.
Doesnt need to be perfect.
Was handy to have enough stuff could clamp it up all at once, could have held them in place by hand too for that matter, would have tacked and hammered square, just happened to have it right there and wanted a clamp pic for the internet,, ha

 

[BajaScout]

Unlike wood, you typically can recover from a mistake. With welding you can add material, whereas with wood if it is too short, you need to cut a new piece.

 

[sberry]

Yes, often leave a gap if needed to get a critical measurement. Clamp some stuff where i want fussy measurement or for proto work to get a good look before welding.
To be truthful about 90% of the clamping is done along the edge and end of the bench, even use it as square. 1 or 2 clamp most of the time.

 

[thejimmy]

I'll go along with most others here, I use a combination square, and/or framing square, however recently bought these for doing 90* joints.

 

[bad_idea]

I fit steel for a living on Navy ships. I want it square but it isn't a space ship. Heavy piece of angle clamped in the corner with a couple 11R's for the critical stuff. Anything else, I hold it while the welder tacks it. Eyeball it close, tack it, check with combo square, smack it straight, get 3 or 4 tacks on it and then weld it out. Square cuts make it much easier to fit it square and it be square after it's welded.

 

[BD1]

I found the best magnets for welding are Magswitch ones. Not cheap but I have had mine forever . They did have a awesome Christmas sale , I know too late. I did buy more then.
https://mag-tools.com/collections/welding-fabrication
They had these on clearance for $49.00 . I bought two and after using bought two more. https://mag-tools.com/collections/welding-fabrication/products/ridgid-brand-30mm-boomerangle

My favorite are the BESSEY welders angle clamps. Not cheap either but worth it.
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0006694FA/?tag=atomicindus08-20

 

[welder4956]

I fit steel for a living on Navy ships. I want it square but it isn't a space ship. Heavy piece of angle clamped in the corner with a couple 11R's for the critical stuff. Anything else, I hold it while the welder tacks it. Eyeball it close, tack it, check with combo square, smack it straight, get 3 or 4 tacks on it and then weld it out. Square cuts make it much easier to fit it square and it be square after it's welded.

^^^This is the key. I have used the red magnets before as an aid to hold for tack welding. But once you have a couple of tacks you need to check using a framing square or speed square and square it up before adding more tacks. Once it is verified square and tacked securely, then it can be welded.

Edit: Also, get a good set of magnets like these: http://stronghandtools.com/stronghandtools/products/magnetic-squares/adjust-o-magnets/

 

[fordkid88]

Magnets are junk. A good square and clamp it like its going out of style

 

[Bellaireroad]

I'll go along with most others here, I use a combination square, and/or framing square, however recently bought these for doing 90* joints.

I use these too, they’re great


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

 

[sqznby]

I don't think I've have ever used a magnet to fab anything.
Clamps, squares, machinist blocks, clamps, challenge angle plates, some square tubing, clamps and solid aluminum square stocks works well oh and some clamps.
Did I mention clamps?
Being able to read a tape will help too.

 

[BajaScout]

I fit steel for a living on Navy ships. I want it square but it isn't a space ship. Heavy piece of angle clamped in the corner with a couple 11R's for the critical stuff. Anything else, I hold it while the welder tacks it. Eyeball it close, tack it, check with combo square, smack it straight, get 3 or 4 tacks on it and then weld it out. Square cuts make it much easier to fit it square and it be square after it's welded.

Hopefully the WTDs don't leak ....

No square cuts there anyways.

 

[LXCam]

go to your favorite metal supplier and get a couple of lengths of heavy angle iron. A nice 6 x 6 x 3/4 used to square things up with generous use of c-clamps. But as others state, you must tack, check, tack, check and stagger welds to keep things straight.

When I first started welding I didn't have a welding table nor room for one. My vise was mounted on a pedestal so I used a chunk of 5x5x3/8" angle in the vise, various squares and plenty of clamps. All in all it takes a little more effort finding the balancing, parallel and square points but it's super easy to keep it all true and have good access to all sides for tacking it together. Hell I still prefer this method over a table for certain assemblies.





As for magnets, they're **** IMO. I have a pretty decent collection but I only use them when there's no other option. And relying on them to maintain square or any angle for that matter will net you a ****** product.

 

[bad_idea]

Hopefully the WTDs don't leak ....

No square cuts there anyways.

I do Mac Alts and Ship Alts. Haven't messed with any doors. I know what you mean though. It makes me nervous welding NEAR a door. Something about the welders on ships - finesse is not in their vocabulary. Crank the heat up and get it!

 

[royce]

I favor having a square fixed to the bench with some holes in it for hold down dogs.
Very quick for tacking off.
This one is made from 1/2"x3" flat bar

Royce

 

[thejimmy]

I favor having a square fixed to the bench with some holes in it for hold down dogs.
Very quick for tacking off.
This one is made from 1/2"x3" flat bar

Royce

If your doing a lot of that kind of fab work, very handy to have that setup on the table

 

[Captain Spaulding]

Wouldn't use them for fabrication, but I use the heck out of them for quick fixes and repairs. I welded a chain hook on a piece of farm equipment over the weekend and the "square" magnet was the perfect tool to hold it while I welded and while it cooled. I use them all the time putting nuts, pins, bolts, hooks, brackets etc. in place to fix something or modify it for a specific job.

 

[Oregon rock crusher]

They can be useful when you're by yourself and cant get a clamp on something like a verticle flat surface but most of the time mine just hang out in the shop and hold up light items like extension cords. Ed.

 

[sberry]

Mine do the same.

 

[steel 35]

Magnets not so much, but I kinda like this one and found its really hard to build one without one

 

[Bigblue&Goldie]

I'm another one that doesn't use magnets for metal fab. The only magnetic tools I own are some tools made by Stronghand to hold tabs while tacking in place.

 

[theoldwizard1]

This guy make some cool stuff. Fireball Tool

Video of the product line Fireball Tool Welding Speed Squares Overview

Besides the old adage "Measure twice, cut once", learn to tack, use the "3-4-5 rule", tack some more and recheck with 3-4-5.

 

[bradpac]

tack it up, knock it square with your trusty framing square or speed square and burn it in.

A key to this is having a large enough work surface to lay things out flat as well.

 

[koditten]

I make copies of the Fireball squares. If anyone wants a pair, they are $85 Wich includes shipping.

I only have 1 pair left as of present.

 

[SkinnyG]

My favorite are the BESSEY welders angle clamps. Not cheap either but worth it.
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0006694FA/?tag=atomicindus08-20

My first welding project was a 24"x72" table built on a 2" box tube frame, and I used a much cheaper version of the above style clamp. I don't even remember where I got it, but it did the job. I was teaching myself to weld with this project, so I really had no idea what I was doing at the start. The tool either worked well, or I got really lucky (or both). The table came out perfectly square.

 

[bdbecker]

...I have used the red magnets before as an aid to hold for tack welding. But once you have a couple of tacks you need to check using a framing square or speed square and square it up before adding more tacks. Once it is verified square and tacked securely, then it can be welded....

Yep, that's how I use them as well - just as an extra hand. I would not rely on them to actually hold angles correctly, but they can be very useful for getting those first few tacks onto a work piece when conventional clamping methods won't work.

 

[BigMike782]

The Fireball squares are not cheap but they ARE bad azz!
I bought the cast iron pair.

 

[aka Larry]

I make copies of the Fireball squares. If anyone wants a pair, they are $85 Wich includes shipping.

I only have 1 pair left as of present.

What size are those? I might be interested, but likely don't need a pair that large.

 

[koditten]

What size are those? I might be interested, but likely don't need a pair that large.

12" x 12".

Thanks
Kirk

 

[steel 35]

Yep when you have one, it really helps to make another!

 

[koditten]

Yep when you have one, it really helps to make another!

I agree. They work better as a pair.

I have been wanting to make a few of those adjustable units as well.