Stahlwille Stabil 20 spanners – bad batch?

[Samuel D]

I just got a small set of Stahlwille’s Stabil 20 spanners (20/7N), and to my dismay they are pretty poorly made in vaunted Germany.

I have other Stahlwille spanners, so I knew not to expect a high finish quality. I even called the roughness of German tools charming in another post. This time the charm has worn a bit thin.

In the images below, I’ve used thick and thin blue arrows to show off-centre (non-concentric) broaching, although this is easier to see with the tool in your hand against the light. Try comparing the thickness of the chamfered area around the circumference and, in the case of the 8 mm, the thickness outside the chamfered area.

Red arrows point to flaws in the chrome plating or underlying steel, not that you need my arrows.

Click an image to see it larger.















These are on top of the usual (for Stahlwille) slight asymmetries, grind marks, etc., on the sides of the spanners.

Can’t say I’m impressed.

 

[Wamsutta]

What device did you use to take the photographs with? I'm amazed by how you were able to get such a large area in focus.

 

[Samuel D]

I used a Panasonic GM5 camera with an Olympus 25 mm f/1.8 lens. Window light, tripod, heavily stopped down, manual focus. I don’t have a macro lens yet (new camera system for me after years of Nikons), so these are tight crops.

No photography trick. The off-centre broaching in particular looks worse in the hand, held up to the light.

 

[CR888]

So do you think these cosmetic imperfections & broaching would affect either performance of tools or long term longevity? One thing to consider about Stahlwillies industrial finish is that IME it remains pretty much the same throughout the tools service life. Where as the pristine mirror chrome finished tools will scratch up & progressively get worse after each use where you put the tool on the ground etc and before not too long they look god awful if used regularly. If one is after a chest full of jewellery type tools that seldom get used Stahlwillie is perhaps not the product to buy. But if you want a tough tool that will endure the demands of professional daily use, Stahlwillie tool finish is about the best you can buy. Have you put these tools on a fastener yet?

 

[eschoendorff]

I’d return them. Then again they’re not supposed to be jewelry but the off center broaching would be a no-go for me.

 

[Samuel D]

Off-centre broaching compromises the strength of the head. Put another way, parts of the head are needlessly thick for the strength on offer here.

Chrome plating is used to inhibit corrosion. If there are holes in it, that’s where corrosion starts. You can see that’s already happening on the 15 mm.

Nicks in the surface act as stress risers. Probably negligibly in the case of the notched 14 mm above, I admit.

I will say this: Stahlwille has a premium name but I did not pay a premium price for these tools on Amazon Italy. And perhaps that’s part of the problem here: people like me are using the internet to shop for the lowest prices, putting great emphasis on saving every penny. Is this the outcome of that?

I haven’t touched a fastener with these and won’t: they’re going back so Stalhwille knows that some buyers will not accept anything as long as it has a posh brand name and COO.

(I’ll end up losing money to ship these back to Italy on my own dime, of course. Hopefully that will teach me a lesson.)

 

[mr.lemons]

So do you think these cosmetic .......

FFS does every thread need someone accusing someone else of not using their tools? They are new and the op is clearly wondering whether to return them or not.

--------------------

You probably know already but cheap macro tubes work as a substitute for a macro lens. No glass in them so you don't lose any quality, just a bit of light.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Metal-TT...012750?hash=item3d8c5e90ce:g:plAAAOSw9yZc9JO2

Back on topic. They look rough to me. I have the 13 and 14 spanners. As you say a few lumps and bumps on the beams is normal but the box and open ends are well finished. No lumps, bumps or inconsistencies. I would assume that the Stabil 20 should be the same quality as the combination spanners.

Example of what is to be expected on the beams (but was the worst example I could find).

Box ends all look ok to me.

 

[Samuel D]

I have a set of lightweight Open Box 13 spanners and a couple of them look like yours, i.e. a bit rough in places. But the box ends are all broached concentrically as in your example. I’d be happy with that.

Not happy with an off-centre broaching.

Maybe there’s something about the deep-offset spanners that makes them harder to centre? I have no idea how these things are made. The Stabil 20 shape looks impossible!

Thanks for the photo tip.

About using my tools, I certainly don’t use them as much as the pros on this forum. However, I’m buying these to use for the next several decades. Want to be happy with them to start with at least!

 

[2ndGearRubber]

The 8 I might take issue with. ALL brands can produce off centers, my worst is a snap on 16mm. Never really looked too closely until all the SK threads here. On an 8mm, it's likely is irrelevant.

I see no issue with the 15. Matte finish usually produces defects like that. I wouldn't be concerned about it. Little nicks in the finish, again I'd probably be fine with. Ask the vendor if they can swap out the 8mm if it bothers you.



What's the street price on a set of these?

 

[CR888]

I'd send them back if your not happy with them, they do look pretty bad compared to my 20 series Stabil's. I overlook a slightly of centre broach in a set of wrenches as usually you'll find something that's not perfect. But I'd also consider buying another set from a different retailer, perhaps not at the cheapest price on earth too. I've read of bootleg fakes of Stahwillies being sold, not sure if this is the case here or not. You knida sound like you are happy with that type of finish, just not the flaws on those wrenches (maybe that's why the seller was discounting them..who knows). But I've purchased Stabils twice over the years and have not had ANY of those issues. I think your expectations are right.

 

[Niniek]

At my work I have came across stahlwille spanners that endure a lifetime of abuse and always stay in top notch shape and I have also seen brand new stahlwille spanners where the finish chips off on the first use.
So I think you could say that there is a possibility you can have a bad batch of stahlwilles. Nonetheless they are still my fav spanners.

 

[Samuel D]

What's the street price on a set of these?

I paid just over €50 ($57 / £45) for a set of seven covering 6 to 19 mm, plus about €5 for shipping to France (I’m British but live in Paris). Seems pretty cheap for elaborately shaped deep-offset spanners from Stahlwille … but maybe if they don’t price them like that, Elora or Facom or Bahco or Stanley or one of the many good Taiwanese brands gets the sale? It’s a cut-throat market out there.

I don’t know how the American companies maintain their high prices, Snap-on especially. Still, despite those prices, I wish they were easier to buy in Europe.

But I'd also consider buying another set from a different retailer, perhaps not at the cheapest price on earth too. I've read of bootleg fakes of Stahwillies being sold, not sure if this is the case here or not.

Unlikely, I hope, because I ordered them from Amazon itself rather than a third-party seller on Amazon. But you never know for sure. Point taken about the cheapest price. I’m probably part of the problem by aggressively looking for low prices.

I have a full set of Open Box 13 spanners and a handful of other Stahlwille spanners in useful sizes, plus a box of 1/2"-drive sockets, and none of them have visibly off-centre broachings. That’s my real concern here; the finish flaws are a bit sloppy, but I wouldn’t return the spanners for those.

 

[Rabid Badger]

They aren't perfect, but you also got them cheaper than most Taiwanese sets. The offset broaching doesn't make for great closeups, but none of them look like they're so thin they'll break.

The only one that worries me is the 15mm. Those rust spots line up perfectly, which makes me suspect an impurity/flaw that penetrates the entire thickness of the wrench. If I had to pick which one is going to break your knuckles, it's that one.

 

[scubadoober]

So what will purchasing to replace them? Taiwan Facom?

 

[Samuel D]

The only one that worries me is the 15mm. Those rust spots line up perfectly, which makes me suspect an impurity/flaw that penetrates the entire thickness of the wrench.

I thought those marks may have been where the spanners were pinched to hang them from the rack in the plating bath. There’s a mark on the 8 mm where the plating is incomplete in the same area.

So what will purchasing to replace them? Taiwan Facom?

What do you suggest with similar deep-offset geometry? That’s what attracted me to the Stabil 20 in the first place. I might end up getting the Stahlwilles again from somewhere I can examine them before buying.

 

[apdxyk]

Is Hazet much more expensive there?

 

[Samuel D]

Is Hazet much more expensive there?

Hazet doesn’t sell a little 7-piece set like the Stahlwille set I got. Its smallest set has 8 pieces with the addition of a 21/22 mm that, since it’s larger than any spanner in the Stahlwille set, adds disproportionately to the price. Fine if you need it.

I prefer the shape of the Stahlwille Stabil 20 to the Hazet 630, assuming they’re all made as per catalogue pictures and not off-centre like some of mine. The material forming the offset of the Stabil 20 curves around more, almost forming half a socket. That looks stronger than the Hazet 630 shape, with its nearly plate-like offset extension.

 

[Dakkyz]

my 600lg 10mm Hazet has incomplete chrome plating in a few spots never thought anything of it.

All my german sets, Elora, Padre and Hazet have this ring of non chrome plating where they were pinched while chroming I guess.

It's really noticeable on the Hazet, not so much on the Padre and on the Elora it's just peaking tuough.. their not defected.

 

[Samuel D]

Holes in the plating are of course defects, whether by design or manufacture; the only question is how much they matter and whether you let the company away with it because it’s German and prestigious.

However, the defects in the chrome plating are the least of my worries in this case.

 

[ChevyEFI]

I look forward to the opening of your tool polishing museum.

Have you procured the desired location, proximal to Le Louvre?

 

[1320it]

I look forward to the opening of your tool polishing museum.

Have you procured the desired location, proximal to Le Louvre?

I would certainly expect that if I pay a premium for tools, the quality is perfect or near perfect. Not have obvious defects like this.

I guess if you have low standards like this, tool companies will keep making interior quality tools.

 

[Samuel D]

I sense the thread may have run its course. So be it.

 

[MikeinNorthWales]

Admittedly, you paid less than normal retail for these wrenches. Is it possible you have purchased factory seconds, sold through a 3rd party?

I agree that we expect quality for appropriate price, but so many forget the low price part once we receive the "inferior quality" item. Put them on a fastener. That is a wrench's only job. I've been around alot of tools in alot of shops in my career. Pretty attracts your attention. Performance fills your wallet.

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[Wamsutta]

I look forward to the opening of your tool polishing museum.

Have you procured the desired location, proximal to Le Louvre?

I don't know why you say that. The off center broaching is inexcusable for a premium brand made in Germany.

 

[M6erfan]

Because any complaints of quality for any brand (unless made in China/India) is met with senseless "tool polisher!" comments.

 

[dnschmidt]

You have two options. 1) Stop your bitchin' and live with it. 2) Send them back. Life is too short to argue over stuff like this.

 

[visionguru]

Because any complaints of quality for any brand (unless made in China/India) is met with senseless "tool polisher!" comments.

What's the definition of "tool polisher"? I'm wondering what percentage of GJers qualify for that badge.

 

[mr.lemons]

Because any complaints of quality for any brand (unless made in China/India) is met with senseless "tool polisher!" comments.

Yup

 

[BajaScout]

What's the definition of "tool polisher"? I'm wondering what percentage of GJers qualify for that badge.

Not me!


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[Rabid Badger]

What's the definition of "tool polisher"?

Right here:

I examined my newly acquired sockets under a 10x magnifying glass.

 

[visionguru]

Right here:

Good one. Are there other indicators?

 

[BarryWells]

WOW. Got a pic of your coffee maker ?
I mean. You could always put that junk under the seat and buy a set of Proto for the box.

 

[Handyandy23]

I will say this: Stahlwille has a premium name but I did not pay a premium price for these tools on Amazon Italy. And perhaps that’s part of the problem here: people like me are using the internet to shop for the lowest prices, putting great emphasis on saving every penny. Is this the outcome of that?

Sounds like you've at least partially answered this for yourself. If you're expecting a premium tool just based on the name, but they're selling at a bargain price, you kind of get what you pay for.

I've got no Stahwille or German tools so can't really compare. But you also can't expect something for nothing. Sounds like from your other comments that you've price shopped these wrenches to death with other "premium sounding" European brands and ended up with these at the bottom end of the price spectrum.

If you want something more perfect then you might need to spend more.

 

[Handyandy23]

Just got comparison's sake, I took a closer look at my set of cheapo Mastercraft Maximum offset wrenches. They're Made in Taiwan and I probably paid $30 CAD for the set on sale. Goes up to 22mm, but big wrench is 20mm on the other end instead of 21mm for some God forsaken reason.

Chrome plated finish looks good on all the wrenches, but the larger sizes the broaching ranges from a little off center, to a lot. 22mm is the worst. I've never noticed before this as I wasn't inspecting for perfection at $30 for the set. Wrenches have worked fine so far.

 

[Mr. T]

I don’t know. I guess I get where you’re coming from but at the end of the day?

I’d just use them. I’m sure they’ll be fine for at least a few decades.

 

[American Locomotive]

I don't get this forum sometimes. If these were chinese craftsman wrenches, we'd all be screaming how they're garbage, and craftsman ain't what it used to be.

Instead, these are expensive wrenches from a premium German brand, and people here are saying it's fine.

It's not fine. It doesn't matter if you bought them at a close-out price, it's still not good.

 

[M6erfan]

I don't get this forum sometimes. If these were chinese craftsman wrenches, we'd all be screaming how they're garbage, and craftsman ain't what it used to be.

Instead, these are expensive wrenches from a premium German brand, and people here are saying it's fine.

It's not fine. It doesn't matter if you bought them at a close-out price, it's still not good.

Tool polisher!

 

[Handyandy23]

Instead, these are expensive wrenches from a premium German brand, and people here are saying it's fine.

It's not fine. It doesn't matter if you bought them at a close-out price, it's still not good.

Is this fact? Do we know they're "expensive" and just on closeout pricing? Or is it possible they're inexpensive from the get go?

I don't know the answer, genuinely wondering. I tend to judge my tools on the price bracket they're in. When I buy cheap tools I don't examine them for details, but I'd want better from expensive tools.

 

[scubadoober]

Is this fact? Do we know they're "expensive" and just on closeout pricing? Or is it possible they're inexpensive from the get go?

I don't know the answer, genuinely wondering. I tend to judge my tools on the price bracket they're in. When I buy cheap tools I don't examine them for details, but I'd want better from expensive tools.

The seven piece set in question is about $65 with standard shipping to the US, and about $70 shipped for the eight piece set he mentioned. So a little less than $10/wrench.

 

[American Locomotive]

Is this fact? Do we know they're "expensive" and just on closeout pricing? Or is it possible they're inexpensive from the get go?

I don't know the answer, genuinely wondering. I tend to judge my tools on the price bracket they're in. When I buy cheap tools I don't examine them for details, but I'd want better from expensive tools.

Stahlwille is a premium brand. Comparable in cost to SK and others. So yes, definitely premium.