Stainless steel tools?

[Big Johnson]

I've seen some stainless steel tools. Why wouldn't companies make more tools out of stainless steel? Oh, wait then we might have to buy more of their tools then.

 

[Nosferatu]

Too soft. Stainless ***** for anything you have to put a bunch of torque to.

 

[cbracer]

There are plenty of strong stainless metals and tools! Many times you'll find they are stronger than most of what is being made in steel. It's more expensive but you're seeing europe move to stainless tools in a lot of areas because it prevents the growth of rust. Why people love rusty tools is beyond me.... Real shops won't allow any rust on any tool!

 

[HandyManny]

There are plenty of strong stainless metals and tools! Many times you'll find they are stronger than most of what is being made in steel. It's more expensive but you're seeing europe move to stainless tools in a lot of areas because it prevents the growth of rust. Why people love rusty tools is beyond me.... Real shops won't allow any rust on any tool!

Real shops won't allow rust on tools? Never heard this before. In many parts of this country and in many parts of the world you simply can't prevent it. Simple exposture to air with high humidity will form oxidation regardless of what you do. Simple day to day handling of carbon steel tools with bare hands will result in an oxide patina too. What kind of shop are you talking about here. Carbon steel oxidizes, alloy steel also does the same thing. Most good tools are still made from some type of carbon steel alloy. True many are plated, but many are also plain finished too. I don't know of any tools that spend time in some place like the Gulf of Mexico that don't rust. Southern USA and the eastern USA too.

 

[BrokewrenchLS1]

There are plenty of strong stainless metals and tools! Many times you'll find they are stronger than most of what is being made in steel. It's more expensive but you're seeing europe move to stainless tools in a lot of areas because it prevents the growth of rust. Why people love rusty tools is beyond me.... Real shops won't allow any rust on any tool!

Most good stainless steel alloys (that aren't prohibitively expensive) are relatively soft, especially compared to just about any common tool steel you want to make a screwdriver or set of pliers out of.

Good hard chrome on a carbon steel tool will have an exponentially longer lifetime than a stainless screwdriver, just from sheer durability. Unless you're working in a marine environment (and even stainless can rust in some circumstances), stainless tools don't make sense.

Europe seems to have some sort of aversion to good chrome on tools made there, so that might be the reason they're switching to more expensive, less durable stainless tools.

 

[pcmeiners]

Doesn't SS's strength primary rely on the amount of additions like chromium? I thought the primary reason for not using alloyed stainless was the difficulty in machining/cost.

 

[HandyManny]

Just think of many of those tool steels used to make dies and roll stamps. They are made of a very tough and highly wear resistant carbon steel, yet it is a carbon steel that doesn't seem to rust very easy. D2 is a great example of a tool steel that doesn't rust so easy. Some carbon steel alloys are more resistant to rust than others.

 

[Trucky]

Stainless steels are not difficult to machine given the proper tool selection. That isn't the problem IMO. In fact, they get excellent surface finish from even what some consider a roughing cut.

As for their use in tools, the most used response is because "you can't harden it" like you can with the normal steels used, which is in part true. There are stainless steels that have very good tensile strength, resistance to torsion, etc. but they are very expensive in their own right. Perhaps why those SS allen keys from Wera are that expensive.

Perhaps another thing you have to consider is that people would think the stainless steel tools are going to be non-magnetic, which isn't always the case. This could prove to be a problem if someone is working in a very magnetically charged area, such as on an MRI machine or some other device. It could be that the non magnetic types are "less" strong than the magnetic ones.

Lots of things to consider in this case, for sure.

 

[rlitman]

People who work on MRI machines use beryllium-copper tools (I know people in the business). That stuff makes stainless look cheap (just a quick google search, and it looks like an Ampco or Berylco BeCu hex key set runs about 3.5x the price of a Wera stainless set).

Plastic, aluminum, and wooden tools used to be used to make adjustments in TV's, because a steel screwdriver would affect the magnetic field, and alter the picture adjustment.

To the people who say that stainless can be made as strong as steel. Sure, some grades can outperform mild steel, but aside from in cryogenic and exceptionally corrosive environments (and extremes like that), there are plenty of readily available steels that will way outperform the best available stainless, and do it much cheaper.
I know this is called for in the construction of stainless building facades, and would expect it to be used on stainless turbine parts too.

Oh, and yes, non-magnetic stainless is austenitic, which is the soft variety, and is really unsuitable for tool use. Unfortunately, austenitic stainless is the kind that is most resistant to corrosion, so magnetic stainless suitable for tools is more likely to rust.

Stainless does have one place where it is important.
People working with stainless parts, often choose to use stainless tools to prevent corrosion. Simple contact between a stainless part and an ordinary steel tool can start the corrosion process in some cases. If your tools are stainless, you don't have this problem.

 

[sdguy55]

There are plenty of strong stainless metals and tools! Many times you'll find they are stronger than most of what is being made in steel. It's more expensive but you're seeing europe move to stainless tools in a lot of areas because it prevents the growth of rust. Why people love rusty tools is beyond me.... Real shops won't allow any rust on any tool!

I think you need to work in a real shop before you comment on what real shops do.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I897 using Tapatalk 2

 

[HandyManny]

People who work on MRI machines use beryllium-copper tools (I know people in the business). That stuff makes stainless look cheap (just a quick google search, and it looks like an Ampco or Berylco BeCu hex key set runs about 3.5x the price of a Wera stainless set).

Plastic, aluminum, and wooden tools used to be used to make adjustments in TV's, because a steel screwdriver would affect the magnetic field, and alter the picture adjustment.

To the people who say that stainless can be made as strong as steel. Sure, some grades can outperform mild steel, but aside from in cryogenic and exceptionally corrosive environments (and extremes like that), there are plenty of readily available steels that will way outperform the best available stainless, and do it much cheaper.
I know this is called for in the construction of stainless building facades, and would expect it to be used on stainless turbine parts too.

Oh, and yes, non-magnetic stainless is austenitic, which is the soft variety, and is really unsuitable for tool use. Unfortunately, austenitic stainless is the kind that is most resistant to corrosion, so magnetic stainless suitable for tools is more likely to rust.

Stainless does have one place where it is important.
People working with stainless parts, often choose to use stainless tools to prevent corrosion. Simple contact between a stainless part and an ordinary steel tool can start the corrosion process in some cases. If your tools are stainless, you don't have this problem.

I don't think mild steels have been too widely used in making tools. To me paperclip steel is what I'd consider mild steel.

 

[rlitman]

I don't think mild steels have been too widely used in making tools. To me paperclip steel is what I'd consider mild steel.

And yet 304 stainless is only 15% stronger than that paperclip steel.
Coat hangers are in the same boat.

Yes, mild steel is useless in tools. So that would make 304 stainless 15% better than useless.
And 316L stainless is something like 30% weaker than that same mild steel, when cold drawn (and weaker still if annealed).

 

[Cryptic1911]

There are plenty of strong stainless metals and tools! Many times you'll find they are stronger than most of what is being made in steel. It's more expensive but you're seeing europe move to stainless tools in a lot of areas because it prevents the growth of rust. Why people love rusty tools is beyond me.... Real shops won't allow any rust on any tool!

Maybe if you work at West Coast Customs or something, where image is everything.. but real shops aren't surgical room clean with shiny tools.

Not sure where you've been looking

 

[BrokewrenchLS1]

And yet 304 stainless is only 15% stronger than that paperclip steel.
Coat hangers are in the same boat.

Yes, mild steel is useless in tools. So that would make 304 stainless 15% better than useless.
And 316L stainless is something like 30% weaker than that same mild steel, when cold drawn (and weaker still if annealed).

The company I used to work for had to use all 304 or 316 fasteners (screws, nuts and bolts, lags, washers, everything) for construction. They wound up having a special "intro class" for new construction guys because there were issues with galling and deforming the stainless hardware because the construction guys were treating it like normal, non-stainless hardware. Not something I'd want tools made of - I'd sooner go with hard-andonized 6061-T6 or 7075-T6 aluminum if corrosion was an issue and I wasn't in a marine environment.

 

[HandyManny]

Maybe if you work at West Coast Customs or something, where image is everything.. but real shops aren't surgical room clean with shiny tools.

Not sure where you've been looking

I agree. Real shops are the ones that look like real work happens. The guys outfits who are actually doing the work take on the same appeance as the day moves on. The tools and shop equipment also will have a well seasoned appearance. I have to wonder about shops that you see on tv that have a steril look to them.

 

[cbracer]

I think you need to work in a real shop before you comment on what real shops do.

Wow, it amazes me how rough people can be on what should be a friendly forum. I'm not sure what you mean by "real shop" so I won't go there. I actually work in racing and frequent the shops of even NASCAR and IndyCar, and they don't have rusty tools. Just last week I was just up at a premier chop shop that makes the highest quality steel custom cars. (USA cars only from 30's to 70's). We were over there bending a piece of steel that had a few specs of rust and the owner was like "what's that, rust on my tools now? You didn't put that in my brake with rust on it did you?"

Also, if you're talking about stainless steel tools you aren't going to use anything soft like 304. So there's no point in arguing that cheap stainless steel isn't as hard as cheap steel. We know that. We'd be talking about proper stainless tools made from magnetic stainless materials.

 

[magova1104]

Wow, it amazes me how rough people can be on what should be a friendly forum. I'm not sure what you mean by "real shop" so I won't go there. I actually work in racing and frequent the shops of even NASCAR and IndyCar, and they don't have rusty tools. Just last week I was just up at a premier chop shop that makes the highest quality steel custom cars. (USA cars only from 30's to 70's). We were over there bending a piece of steel that had a few specs of rust and the owner was like "what's that, rust on my tools now? You didn't put that in my brake with rust on it did you?"

Also, if you're talking about stainless steel tools you aren't going to use anything soft like 304. So there's no point in arguing that cheap stainless steel isn't as hard as cheap steel. We know that. We'd be talking about proper stainless tools made from magnetic stainless materials.

Absolutely true! I work in 2 professional shops (Electronic and Fleet Shop (Police)and I don't see any rusty tools, I also visit other shops (body and mechanic) and all are proud to have their tools more clean and tidy.
I have seen dirty shops obviously, and rusty scrap metal in yunk yards, but rusty tools? Who let their tools be rusty? Unless you don't use it often or you don't know how to TAKE CARE OF THEM!

 

[Trucky]

Also, if you're talking about stainless steel tools you aren't going to use anything soft like 304. So there's no point in arguing that cheap stainless steel isn't as hard as cheap steel. We know that. We'd be talking about proper stainless tools made from magnetic stainless materials.

Sure, it exists. But only two words come to mind...

prohibitively expensive.

 

[ash95608]

every time I'm done using my tools I just wipe them down with Boeshield-T-9 and I never have problems with rust.

 

[sdguy55]

Wow, it amazes me how rough people can be on what should be a friendly forum. I'm not sure what you mean by "real shop" so I won't go there. I actually work in racing and frequent the shops of even NASCAR and IndyCar, and they don't have rusty tools. Just last week I was just up at a premier chop shop that makes the highest quality steel custom cars. (USA cars only from 30's to 70's). We were over there bending a piece of steel that had a few specs of rust and the owner was like "what's that, rust on my tools now? You didn't put that in my brake with rust on it did you?"

Also, if you're talking about stainless steel tools you aren't going to use anything soft like 304. So there's no point in arguing that cheap stainless steel isn't as hard as cheap steel. We know that. We'd be talking about proper stainless tools made from magnetic stainless materials.

Depends on where your at my friend. If your in a place with high humidity (or salty enviroment) then the only chance your tools have of not ever becoming rusty is using them often. But SOMETHING in that toolbox is going to get rusty, nature of the beast.

 

[joshmodelskidoo]

i work in a water bottling plant and stainless would be great there but i dont recall seeing any of our maint with any

 

[Mister Moose]

FYI:

Stainless isn't really stainless.

Stainless has 2 states, passive and active. If you deny stainless oxygen, like covered in water for a long time, it will go active and corrode.

 

[ncfh]

As far as MRI tools and most other applications go, beryllium-copper has been pushed aside by other materials. It's too expensive due to demand by military and scientific endeavors, the dust is a health hazard, and it ***** to weld (melts your face off).

Most everyone is switching to titanium tools these days, but bronze is also pretty common for things like sockets and adjustables.

I've also got, plastic, stainless, and ceramic tools for MRI.

Generally they all ****, nothing beats good tool steel. No high torque fasteners on an MRI thankfully. Titanium's only redeeming feature is that it is lightweight and makes for a lighter bag to haul around the globe.

Superconducting magnets are fun, but liquid helium is even more fun. And MRIs have both!

 

[JDS968]

Most everyone is switching to titanium tools these days, but bronze is also pretty common for things like sockets and adjustables.

I've also got, plastic, stainless, and ceramic tools for MRI.

Generally they all ****, nothing beats good tool steel. No high torque fasteners on an MRI thankfully. Titanium's only redeeming feature is that it is lightweight and makes for a lighter bag to haul around the globe.

Photos??

Also, how do titanium tools ****?

 

[rlitman]

As far as MRI tools and most other applications go, beryllium-copper has been pushed aside by other materials. It's too expensive due to demand by military and scientific endeavors, the dust is a health hazard, and it ***** to weld (melts your face off).

I've never had dust come off of my wrenches. I have welded wrenches and sockets and allen keys, but that's what I have the Chinese tools for. Who would want to weld a Berylco wrench?

Titanium is way soft and springy. It makes a great crowbar, and is liked for dive tools, but not much else.

 

[magova1104]

FYI:

Stainless isn't really stainless.

Stainless has 2 states, passive and active. If you deny stainless oxygen, like covered in water for a long time, it will go active and corrode.

You are right.
From Wiki:

"There are three types of stainless steel. AUSTENITIC These are the 300 series, IE 304, 316 etc. These are non magnetic. Next are the FERRITIC & MARTENSITIC types. These stainless steels are of the 400 range like 409, 430. The latter type has high mechanical strength and is used as knives etc. They also have additional alloying elements depending upon the quality. These SS are magnetic. However the attraction is weak compared to normal carbon steels without nickle or chrome content."


Just FYI:

300 series SS is the material used to make surgical tools and is almost 100% stainless.
Stainless steel tools are not necessarily intended for use in humid environments, but for handle and drive stainless steel fasteners. If you are using SS fasteners with a regular steel tool, you have a risk of leaving a little debris in the bolt or screw and then the SS screw or bolt will rust later.

 

[carbon]

Off topic, but there is a type of stainless that CANNOT rust. The knife company spyderco uses it in some knives. From their site, "H1 is a precipitation-hardened steel containing nitrogen instead of carbon." I believe it's made in Japan.

 

[ncfh]

I've never had dust come off of my wrenches. I have welded wrenches and sockets and allen keys, but that's what I have the Chinese tools for. Who would want to weld a Berylco wrench?

Titanium is way soft and springy. It makes a great crowbar, and is liked for dive tools, but not much else.

lol.

I'm referring to dust generated during manufacturing, grinding flash off stamped/forged parts for example. Same with welding.

Both issues raise the cost of Be-Cu products because of the hazards inherent to the material.

Just not a friendly material to work with. Speaking to my experience working with it, and the reasons titanium has taken the lead in non-magnetic tools.

Sorry about the confusion!

An yeah titanium ***** for drive tools, too soft.

 

[rlitman]

lol.

I'm referring to dust generated during manufacturing, grinding flash off stamped/forged parts for example. Same with welding.

Both issues raise the cost of Be-Cu products because of the hazards inherent to the material.

Completely understood. It just sounded funny.
But yes, the hazards of BeCu are what keeps it in the budget of NASA types.

 

[camarotoolman]

Clean, rust free tools are worth alot more at resell time then rusty nasty stuff...

 

[otis66]

Good Stainless steal is too expensive to make mechanics tools. Craftsman did make stainless steal ratchets for a while. but it did not last long. My Benchmade Griptilian is made with a 154cm stainless blade. My Kershaw Blur is made with CPM S30V Stainless steel. Some ball bearings are made with CPM S3OV stainless. Tool Steal is still the best for making tools. Stainless steel is also hard to work and it clogs a lot of grinding tools.

 

[HandyManny]

Absolutely true! I work in 2 professional shops (Electronic and Fleet Shop (Police)and I don't see any rusty tools, I also visit other shops (body and mechanic) and all are proud to have their tools more clean and tidy.
I have seen dirty shops obviously, and rusty scrap metal in yunk yards, but rusty tools? Who let their tools be rusty? Unless you don't use it often or you don't know how to TAKE CARE OF THEM!

There are some places in this country (and in the world) where you just can't prevent rust on plain steel. Even with time, chrome plated tools will rust. For example the Gulf Coast is one area where there always seems to be a permanent film of condensation on every outdoor (even non-airconditioned indoor) metal surfaces. That's just the way it is. Regularly using tools and handling them will minimise the build up of surface rust and oxidation. If you live in a dry climate (like I do now), plain finsihed carbon (or alloy) steel tools will likely never rust if kept in a basic garage or workshop. But even in this dry environement plain finished carbon steel will eventually grey and patina with just basic handling and exposure to the air, not as rapidly, but it will happen with time.

 

[beerdog]

You dont see alott of stainless tools because simply put.....it is not a great choice for hand tools. I won't list reasons that have all been repeated many times.

 

[Monte]

Looks good

 

[Watchwatch]

If Europe is moving towards stainless tools its because of environmental issues surrounding chrome plating. Chrome platers are getting harder and harder to find in the United States. Its a nasty process and cleaning the plating tanks is even nastier.

 

[magova1104]

There are some places in this country (and in the world) where you just can't prevent rust on plain steel. Even with time, chrome plated tools will rust. For example the Gulf Coast is one area where there always seems to be a permanent film of condensation on every outdoor (even non-airconditioned indoor) metal surfaces. That's just the way it is. Regularly using tools and handling them will minimise the build up of surface rust and oxidation. If you live in a dry climate (like I do now), plain finsihed carbon (or alloy) steel tools will likely never rust if kept in a basic garage or workshop. But even in this dry environement plain finished carbon steel will eventually grey and patina with just basic handling and exposure to the air, not as rapidly, but it will happen with time.

Interesting. Thanks.

 

[magova1104]

Looks good

That's the most beautiful socket set I've seen. I will buy this some day.

 

[Monte]

I will buy this some day.

good idea ! Post some pics then

btw. Wiha makes matching stainless screwdrivers, bit sets and hex keys (Wera + Elora too).....

.....and Elora also offers stainless wrenches:

 

[tradesmanschoice]

If anyone needs any Wiha stainless steel screwdrivers, we've got a great deal on the PZ/slotted set. I don't think you'll find this set cheaper anywhere else.

http://www.tradesmanschoice.com/catalog/Wiha/308STZK6.html

 

[JasonTX]

check out www.steritool.com.
fun stuff there.