Stairs - how steep?

[Jon_E]

I have just completed the shell for a two-story garage. I need to figure out a reasonably comfortable set of stairs for the building, to get up to the second floor. This won't be a frequently used space. I planned on putting a closet for my dust collector in one corner, roughly 4' square, so the stairs would run up to the ceiling of the closet, use the closet top as a landing, turn 90 degrees and continue up to the second floor. The distance from the finished slab to the second floor subfloor is just shy of 11 feet. At a typical 7/11 stair pitch, that would require approximately 17'-3" of stair run. I don't have that available, what I do have is about 12 feet. This would give me a rise/run of 8/8.75, approximately. Just under a 45-degree angle.

Code requirements are not an issue here, I can do whatever fits the space. I have done some pretty extensive searches and found a great deal of code references but nothing that deals with the relative ease or comfort level of ascending or descending a steep set of stairs. I have considered a ship's ladder or similar alternating-tread stairs, but I worry that it would be too steep to navigate while carrying something such as lumber or a storage box.

Can anyone offer suggestions or point me in the direction of useful resources? Maybe you have a similar situation and can post pictures?

 

[Cyberbear]

I vaguely remember from my college building practices class that the formula:

2 times the riser + tread = 23 or 25 inches. Perhaps this will help give you an idea of what is considered a safe set of stairs. Often I've needed both hands to carry what was taken upstairs and could not use the hand rail. Something that does not challenge ones balance is good.

 

[readhead]

Sounds like you really don't have much choice. The only thing I can see that might help would be to lower the landing. Do you have room upstairs to add a few more treads?

 

[mrmeaner]

Could you do a spiral stair case? Kill two birds with one stone - Access to second level and saves plenty of floor real estate

 

[rvieceli]

More info would help. Maybe a drawing or at least space available for each section.

 

[ddawg16]

Could you do a spiral stair case? Kill two birds with one stone - Access to second level and saves plenty of floor real estate

That is what I did. No regrets

 

[DonPowers]

I'm 13 ft to the second floor and also wanted comfortable stairs that were easy to bring stuff up and down. I also don't have to worry about code here with regard to stairs but built mine to meet codes for things like insurance purposes, in the event there is a claim where stairs are involved.

Used the following as a guide and went with a 7.5" rise, 10.5" tread with a landing just below 12 ft and one step from the landing to the second floor. The stairs are also 4 ft wide.

 

[dfiler2]

I had the same issue when I was trying to figure out how to best access my storage loft. A stairway wide enough to carry larger items up should probably be 4' and a minimum of a 10" run, so using a standard 7"+ rise and a 10" run 3-4' wide would take up a lot of room. What i did was build a ships ladder, 17 degrees if I remember right, Then built a lift at 17 degrees also. I used a HF 700lb hoist, I built it so the platform top ends up about 3' above the loft floor and in just a little from the edge. That way I am not leaning out over to pick something up. I am going to put a railing on the stairway, because wife is requesting it, but otherwise I did this about a year and a half ago and it works really well and wastes very little space. I usually have scaffolding stored behind the stairs and lift.

 

[NUTTSGT]

Typically, a rise around 7 1/2" is normal. The problem is that normal isn't always possible and you have to make the stairs fit with what you have. I ran into that making new steps going down into the basement, think old house, stone foundation with large wood beams.

I know some might like the alteranting steps to save space but I know my ******* would be falling down/up them if I was carrying something large or having another person help me.

While steep maybe uncomfortable, there are many older houses that have stairways like that. My biggest concern over all would be the steps are constructed safely and the rise is all the same.


BTW, cut one stringer out and see how it lays out before you cut the second/third.

 

[My Old Tools]

http://www.calculator.net/stair-calculator.html

Too flat is as bad or worse than too steep. Anything that doesn't meet your natural gait will feel off. The standards are pretty good, so stick as close as you can to the 7.5-8" rise and 9" run.

 

[woodzy]

I had a set of spiral staircase in a cottage I built, and I hated thing to haul anything up there. You were always hitting the rail. If you have room for a lift and you just use the spiral staircase to get to the upstairs, that might be OK but if you plant to take stuff up or down - I would avoid a spiral staircase if possible. I know they save space.

 

[Jon_E]

I definitely want to avoid a spiral. I use one at my job and it *****, you have to watch your step carefully and good luck carrying anything.

The alternating-tread designs have caught my eye. I imagine they take some getting used to.

 

[readhead]

Alternating tread stairs are a pain in the ***. I have installed a few in industrial settings. However I have removed and scrapped more than I have installed. One shop where I removed them noted that they were the cause of to many workers comp claims. They look cool in magazines and ads but that is where the cool ends.

 

[RAYJAY]

if not using all the time,
hinge the stairs and rope and pulley to pull to ceiling tie off or winch if needed....

 

[theoldwizard1]

if not using all the time,
hinge the stairs and rope and pulley to pull to ceiling tie off or winch if needed....

+1 !

 

[JettaGetUpandGo]

Building code in Wisconsin is 8/9 for residential and 7/11 for commercial.

I believe most other states (including Vermont: http://firesafety.vermont.gov/sites/firesafety/files/pdf/Code Info Sheets/2012_firecode.pdf) adopt the IBC which is 7.75/10 for residential and 7/11 for commercial (http://publicecodes.cyberregs.com/icod/ibc/2012/icod_ibc_2012_10_par126.htm).

This saves you 1 riser, almost 2, plus you could split the platform into 2 or 3 risers saving some space as well.

 

[Jeff Ivers]

I regularly build outdoor stairs and the accepted practice is 7 to 9 inches for riser height and we build most with a 10" tread depth (with respect to the riser) and actually make the stair 11'' deep so the tread overhangs 1". If your height is just under 11 feet and you go with a 9" riser height, you will need 15 stairs. 15 stairs at a 10" tread depth will require 12.5 feet of length.

 

[Gerald O]

Do you have room for a second landing near the bottom? I had to go up about 12 1/2' in a little over 12' of width. Made it with an 8" rise and about a 10" run. I used two turns and 2 landings. It's a fairly comfortable stairway feeling only just slightly steep. I left the bottom landing area open with a railing instead of a wall to make it easy to negotiate the first turn with bulky items.

 

[Dragster Racer]

I definitely want to avoid a spiral. I use one at my job and it *****, you have to watch your step carefully and good luck carrying anything.

The alternating-tread designs have caught my eye. I imagine they take some getting used to.

They do. I have one in my shop. You HAVE to start with the correct foot. Other than that they are natural. Don't have to worry about catching your toe on a tread. I like em.

 

[rburke65]

They tried out one of those alternating "stair-ladders" at work years ago but it didn't last too long. Took a little getting used to at first.

 

[WNYflyer]

OSHA standards which may give you some guidance if local codes don't address stairs in residential garages.

https://www.osha.gov/pls/oshaweb/owadisp.show_document?p_table=STANDARDS&p_id=9716

 

[Woody610nb]

I've built stair for 20 years on Long Island, NY. With building cost so high per square foot, the normal staircase is 8"rise and 9" run. So for your application in a shop setting, 8 rise and 83/4" run will be fine. You can make it feel more comfortable if you can build it without risers so you foot will fit better. It may feel a little steep coming down, so make sure you include some type of handrail.

BYW, 8, 9 stairs works out to about 42*. as long as you don't exceed 45* you should be fine.

 

[gregtwojeeps]

As a old fart with bad knees.... in which no one knows for 100% surety what the state of their body will be next month.... I deplore any stairs with risers over 7.5 in height and treads less than 10 in. deep JMO

 

[Jon_E]

Getting closer to building the stairs. Since I made my original post, I poured the concrete floor slab, and my total height came to exactly 11 feet, or 132 inches. If I put a landing at 90.75" I get 11 risers at 8.25", and then another 5 risers at 8.25". The initial 11 risers will give me a run of 100", plus the width of the landing, which I think will work. It's not code, but it is 'reasonable'. I wonder about an 8-1/4" rise though.

 

[pmiranda]

Just one more riser gets you to the recommended max of 7-3/4"... How deep are the treads? I'd suggest mocking up a few steps with scrap material or bricks or something and try what you're planning before you cut the stringers. Practice carrying a big empty cardboard box or a concrete block up and down and see if you're happy.

 

[cdestuck]

If you really want to save your floor space and your gable ends are high enough, is there a chance you can do a exterior set of stairs along side the garage and a door into the 2nd floor

 

[Jon_E]

I work for a place that has a lot of rooftop air handling units and had to go up on the roof last week to check out a refrigeration compressor. Last year we had a set of stairs installed near our maintenance shop that went from the ground level up to the rooftop - I had never really paid attention to the rise/run or the ease of use of the stairs. Turns out that the run is 8-11/16" and the rise is 9-5/16", the total rise is 14'-9" and the total run is 13'. So, that's much steeper and taller than anything I would hope to do. I went up and down them a few times over a couple days to get a feel for them, and while going up isn't too bad, going down can be a little hairy without using the handrails. Having an example is better than all the guessing in the world. I think my plan of an 8-1/4" rise and 9-3/4" run will work out fine.

 

[kbs2244]

I like the separate people and material idea.

A simple ladder takes up no room and a winch to lift stuff up through a hole in the ceiling.

 

[pmiranda]

IMO once you go to something steeper than 8/10 you pretty much have a ladder, however the handrail is really nice and worth having.

 

[metalmagpie]

Look up your local building code.