Standby generator, whose got one.

[10kredline]

So am I the only lunatic that installed a standby generator after hurricane Sandy? Just curious. I put in a generac 14kw. Anyone else do an install?

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[Mustang51js]

I don't have one at my house but I've installed about 30 of them since for customers.

 

[theoldwizard1]

If you are in a flood zone, did you install it above the 100 year flood line ?

What was your choice of fuel ? Many lost natural gas.

 

[The mean fish]

I have a Guardian 17KW and a 200amp transfer switch on the mains coming to my home/shop/water well house. Mine it set up for propane, I have a 500 gallon tank nearby that runs the generator and the gas cooktop in the house.

 

[turbowoodworker]

I am almost ready to move into our new home. I had a transfer switch placed and will add the generator(17-20kw) and propane tank as soon as GC gets out of the way. Natgas not available so will use propane.

After the ice storms here last Thursday, we still have people without power, so i am convinced it will be my first addition.i also hear that the sales are during the summer months before hurricane season.

 

[ronr80]

Got a generac myself , installed with a GENER-LINK on the meter simple and works well

 

[Andybull]

I have a 45 KW Onan with a 200 amp auto transfer switch.

 

[Highbeam]

I have a 45 KW Onan with a 200 amp auto transfer switch.

Holy hell, good job andybull.

 

[Ross/Kzoo]

I installed a 15-17 KW about 14 years ago and am satisfied. Building a new house later this year and one of the demands of my wife is another whole house generator. They are about 60% of wha tI paid back when. The other thing is my workshop not in the house. She wants a2 1/2 car attached garage and a 3 stall carriage house with my shop out back.

 

[tyndall]

I am almost ready to move into our new home. I had a transfer switch placed and will add the generator(17-20kw) and propane tank as soon as GC gets out of the way. Natgas not available so will use propane.

I was thinking propane too until I found out 100lbs only gives 8 hours of runtime. I didn't like the idea of buying or renting a huge tank of fuel that has only one purpose. Now I'm planning diesel because it is easier to source in an emergency.

 

[10kredline]

I ran a natural gas setup. It's at the end of my backyard, about 90 feet from the meter. While i was at it I added natural gas to my grill. I do not live in a flood zone, not even close, and have not gotten any water in the 5 years i've lived here. I did it mainly because my job does not afford me the opportunity to stay home during states of emergency, so with 2 little ones at home it buys me some peace of mind.

 

[10kredline]

Holy hell, good job andybull.

thats awesome

 

[LS6 Tommy]

I have a 45 KW Onan with a 200 amp auto transfer switch.

If I had a natural gas line on my street I'd have an Onan & a 200A xfer switch in a heartbeat. Maybe not quite that big of a genny, though...

Tommy

 

[turbowoodworker]

Hey Mr Tyndall,

Good thought on the diesel but contrast that with propane for a moment. Not to argue, and maybe you can enlighten me.

If the propane tank is big enough, and by that I would plan to run generator for 5-7 days (in my area, the type of incident that would lead to generator switching on should be corrected by then, I hope), then propane storage is fairly safe and replenished by a delivery vehicle on site (not at the height of the power outage of course).

Can the same be said for diesel fuel? How much volume would need to be stored and replenished? Safety of a diesel tank compared to pressurized propane? Delivery options?

Again not arguing but asking as I have not purchased my unit yet and want to get the best shot at making it through most outages. Not trying to go off the grid by any means. My 20kw planned generator is not "whole house" but selective (HVAC, geothermal pump, kitchen, first floor lighting).

Question to others in the know, lease or buy propane tank? One big enough to run generator for 5-7 days. I think most 17-20 kw units need 1.8 to 3.1 gallons per hour depending on load. Sound right?

Thanks,
Rick

 

[tyndall]

The problems I have with propane is keeping seven days worth would mean a fairly large tank, in the 500 gallon range. Other than a barbeque, I have no use for propane because it is much cheaper for me to heat with electric. So I'm sitting on over $1200 of fuel 'just in case', plus rental or buying a tank. Then there's the size of the thing if I don't bury it.

The other problem is delivery itself. Extend the outage and you are done. You rely on a truck, which will probably be unavailable due to everyone needing propane for heating, no way to fill said truck or the driver dealing with his own emergency. A 20lb tank will only get you about two hours and they will probably be sold out from people needing them for portable heaters.

Diesel means I can fill it myself from anywhere I can find it. Where I am it's easier to get than propane and I could even borrow some from a nearby farm if necessary. I can use it for my tractor or truck or kerosine heater without having it permanently installed by a gas fitter. It also doesn't collect invisibly in low areas if there is a leak.

Diesel is not for everybody, but may be the best option in some cases.

 

[turbowoodworker]

Good thoughts, thanks.

 

[Dick in Wisconsin]

Have 8.5KW Kubota in the race trailer, buried in the snow bank.

When we build the race shop this year, we'll put in a transfer switch.

 

[Dick in Wisconsin]

The other problem is delivery itself. Extend the outage and you are done. You rely on a truck, which will probably be unavailable due to everyone needing propane for heating, no way to fill said truck or the driver dealing with his own emergency.

You post an interesting issue.

Have you talked to the propane dealer to determine what would happen in an extended outage? I suspect he might be running his truck 24/7!

 

[mrobins297aaa]

these were my thoughts:
i was looking at going with something around 17 kw whole house propane generator, because i have propane already and i also own my own 500 gallon tank, which is good because when you own your own tank you can shop for propane and in case of a long outage you have a better chance of find propane.

thats the good now the bad (at least in my case):
they burn a ton of propane, in my case it was going to work out to over $100 a day.
I figured a little over 6 days and i'd have to fill the tank. Keep in mine a 500 gallon tank can only be filled to 80% so 400 gallons and you can't run it dry, around here no one will fill a empty tank without testing everything because it could have a leak if its empty, so you still have to have at least 5 or 10% in there. So maybe your looking at 350 gallons you can use.
And the bad thing was where my generator had to go was on the opposite end of the house from my propane tank, with the 3/4" line i had on that end would not been able to deliver enough gas to run it. something everyone thinking of doing this should think about where there propane tank is located to make sure it can supply enough gas to the generator.

plus the set up is very expensive, even if you do it yourself.

so I ended up figuring out all the things in our home that we really need to run and took amp readings on all of it and it came in well below 7500 watts.

so I went with a portable gas generator (generac gp 7500e)
so i am dealing with having enough gas on hand, it burns 16gallons for 24 hours of operation, but it runs everything but my ac.

so its a trade off but it was a whole lot cheaper.

 

[Hpozzuoli]

I run a portable diesel gen thru an interlock device. I couldnt see doing a transfer switch because I didn't want to limit myself. I keep 10 gallons on hand normally. If I know we are getting a big storm I will keep 20 gallons on hand. The longest I had to run on gen power was 3hrs during the blizzard we had in 2013. My panel is in my garage so I put my gen plug inside as well. I can roll the gen to the door so it stays dry. I plug into the house and I run a separate line to my grounding rod.

If this was going to be my forever house I would have piped a traditional standby gen into my natural gas line and then used a gener link. I would never use propane. I would buy a big diesel and make a shed for it before I would go propane. Something about being at the mercy of a tank scares me.

My gen is 6k running 6500 surge. My heat/hot water/cooking are all natural gas so I don't have any heavy electric items to run.

 

[mikester]

My neighbor had a propane whole house. Ive always wanted to go diesel. Just because Ive got a 1K fuel tank for my home heating oil. I heat my garage with a propane Modine Hot Dawg. Don't know the prices through the rest of the country but I just paid $6.07 a gallon for propane. That sucked.

 

[frankzlt1]

im a generator dealer and a electrician with my experience with the big 3 generators on the past long extended outages people were getting about 3 days of continuous running on there home stand by with a 100 gallon propane fuel. now keep in mind the amount of fuel consumed matters on how hard the generator is working, most generators run at 3600 rpms which is equal to 95-100 mph.if you have a bigger kw generator most of them you can get at 1800 rpms which will save you a lot more on fuel and wear and tare on the generator. no matter what fuel source you get theres always going to be the consern do i have enough and if get low am i going to be able to get the delivery and also keep im mind that if your out of power the local fuel supplier as well may be out of power, which means they need the power for there pumps to pump into delivery trucks or your gasoline for your car.

 

[aandpdan]

I run a portable 3k unit on propane. My heat/hot water/cooking are also propane. Several years ago we had a major ice storm and lost power for almost 5 days. During that time I ran the generator for between 2-4 hours a day. The house stayed warm, the food cold, and I had lights/TV/Internet while it was running. At those loads I'm only burning about 1/2 to 3/4 gallon an hour.

I also have an interlock. I usually energize all the circuits and the only time I have to be careful is when using the microwave.

 

[Stevie-Ray]

I have a portable 5K/7.25K that I use in emergencies, but it's gasoline. Haven't wired it into the house yet-just use cords with it to keep my fridges going and some lights and space heater. Depend on gas fireplace to keep the house warm enough to survive, it was natural the last time and was a real pain to keep going. 6 days of below freezing weather. Really need to get the thing wired to the house, until my old house is sold, then I'll look into the stand-by natural gas ones.

 

[The mean fish]

My generator and transfer switch was installed by the previous owner of my home but it wasn't installed correctly and hadn't been used at all when I bought the place, she had it installed right after hurricane Ike. I did a bunch of work to it once I moved in which included putting my shop's 90amp service on the backup side of the generator so I can weld on generator power if needed.

I also have a Honda eu6500is which is set up for gasoline or propane and I keep plenty gas on hand if I need it. I can also kill the propane 17kw and run the entire place on the Honda which is plenty enough to run my water well pump and lights in the house. It'll also run the electric portion of my propane stove/oven so we can still cook. The previous owner installed a full electric range/oven and a full gas range and oven in the kitchen so whether I'm on backup power, propane or shore power I can eat very well.

This was from when we bought the place and were having an island built in the kitchen. You can see the 2 stoves in the background.

https://scontent-b-ord.**.fbcdn.net/hphotos-frc3/t31.0-8/464249_3641628712319_135827714_o.jpg

 

[66HertzClone]

We have a 12kw Cooper natural gas fueled standby that has been ours for nearly ten years. In that time other than twice yearly oil and filter changes and an air filter replacement, the only problem I've ever had was a failure to start for it's weekly run cycle. I popped the cover off and saw a message on the display panel, "OC" know as over crank. I called an was given the telephone number of one of the techs. I told him what I had found and he told me the starter relay was bad, a common problem. Told me to purchase a Ford fender mount starter solenoid and it would fit the existing mounting holes. Did that and it fired right up.

Our standby ran for I think 10 days straight, we were very grateful to have it.

 

[HiTech]

[I know this post won't sit well for some of you guys out there but.....I installed a Lister Petter 15+kw diesel generator in my basement. Now before you tell me I'm nuts let me tell you how I did it.

I built a 10'x12' room in my house basement with cinder block construction on 2 sides. The other 2 sides are 2x6 metal studs offset on 2x10 sole plate. For sound control Roxul insulation was used double packed in stud cavities. Walls are covered with cement backer board and 5/8 fire rock. The ceiling done the same way.

The steel door was beefed up with 3/4" fiber board for sound reasons. The two 18x32 windows are used for intake of cool air and exhaust of hot engine air aided by 2 1500cfm fans. The engine exhaust 2"pipe is Tig welded at all connections and run out through the cinder block wall.

The room has smoke and rate of rise detector along with CO. connected to a alarm system. When a alarm is set off the system shuts down the fuel going to the generator and shuts off the unit. All this is being monitored by 2 cameras which I view on my Kitchen TV. The power is transferred by a manual switch in my panel.

The generator uses about 1 gallon of fuel per hour running at full load. All of the house with 2 central AC'S now problem for the diesel. AS far as sound in the room it's about 95db. and out side the room it's around 38 db. On my 2nd floor I don't hear it at all. Being out of the weather and cold starting it is no problem. Besides that I Love The SMELL OF DIESEL IN THE MORNINGS out side that is!

Total price for this ran me about $9K

Thanks for reading
Russ from Pa.

 

[Backlight]

[I know this post won't sit well for some of you guys out there but.....I installed a Lister Petter 15+kw diesel generator in my basement. Now before you tell me I'm nuts let me tell you how I did it.

I built a 10'x12' room in my house basement with cinder block construction on 2 sides. The other 2 sides are 2x6 metal studs offset on 2x10 sole plate. For sound control Roxul insulation was used double packed in stud cavities. Walls are covered with cement backer board and 5/8 fire rock. The ceiling done the same way.

The steel door was beefed up with 3/4" fiber board for sound reasons. The two 18x32 windows are used for intake of cool air and exhaust of hot engine air aided by 2 1500cfm fans. The engine exhaust 2"pipe is Tig welded at all connections and run out through the cinder block wall.

The room has smoke and rate of rise detector along with CO. connected to a alarm system. When a alarm is set off the system shuts down the fuel going to the generator and shuts off the unit. All this is being monitored by 2 cameras which I view on my Kitchen TV. The power is transferred by a manual switch in my panel.

The generator uses about 1 gallon of fuel per hour running at full load. All of the house with 2 central AC'S now problem for the diesel. AS far as sound in the room it's about 95db. and out side the room it's around 38 db. On my 2nd floor I don't hear it at all. Being out of the weather and cold starting it is no problem. Besides that I Love The SMELL OF DIESEL IN THE MORNINGS out side that is!

Total price for this ran me about $9K

Thanks for reading
Russ from Pa.

Sounds like a very nice setup! Can I ask why you decided to go this route rather than a diesel unit outside in a generator enclosure?

 

[MFortie]

Interesting topic.

We don't have too many power issues or weather related outages in San Diego (county), however I'm inclined to want to prevent any future problems (or when the Zombie apocalypse comes) and setup an emergency power supply.

I keep a minimum of 50 gallons of diesel on hand (two 55g drums I rotate) for my tractors. I also drive a diesel truck. And I have a diesel motorhome. Sounds like a diesel genset would be the right choice?

We also have two 250 gallon propane tanks on the property (two houses). I hate the games the propane companies play and too am concerned about availability when the Schumer Hits The Fan.

I'm just starting a steel building project (40x60) and will put a 400A meter panel on the building and might have to run the house off the panel as well -- San Diego County says (1) meter per house and outbuilding and I currently have two meters (house & chicken coop); don't know if they'll grandfather in the second meter yet. So that's where I'd put a transfer switch I suppose.

My biggest concern is keeping the well pump going (which is fed from the garage which in turn is fed from the 'chicken coop' where the meter is -- the new building is replacing the chicken coop.) We can heat via the wood burning fireplace -- usually doesn't even get to 25F at the lowest around here.

Keeping the refer and/or freezer going would be a plus too. We cook with propane, have a propane water heater and even have the grill hooked up to the propane tank, so I think the well and fridge having power should get us by for the most part.

I see the Generacs at the box stores and the RV has a diesel Onan (7.5kw).

What's the opinion of Generac vs. Onan by those in the know?

Mark

 

[Ross/Kzoo]

Generac has made quite a few changes in last few years. No more water cooled for residential use (mine is water cooled) and they now manufacture their own air cooled motors. I like mine but they don't make that unit anymore.

 

[10kredline]

Generac has made quite a few changes in last few years. No more water cooled for residential use (mine is water cooled) and they now manufacture their own air cooled motors. I like mine but they don't make that unit anymore.

This is true. But from what I read while researching which standby unit to buy, I found that the engine that generac uses to power my 14kw standby unit and the 17kw unit are widely used in mud boats, abused daily and ask for more. I agree with the 1800rpm setups being quieter and more fuel efficient, but those characteristics put you in to a whole new price category also. This 3600rpm unit isn't bad as far as noise goes, I can barely hear it running from inside.

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[wingfootedgodhead]

Isuzu 13kw 1800 rpm diesel here. Bought it from Hardy Diesel about two years ago and only test runs made so far.

 

[kaffine]

I just picked up a 40kw propane generator. I got it more so I can run larger power tools at home than for use as a backup generator though. I will likely wire it up as a backup source at some point in the future but we don't have too many failures here to worry about.

 

[tjpavlov]

20kw Briggs and Stratton. I installed it over the summer and assured myself and all of my neighbors of a perfect electrical supply going forward. It kicks on weekly, but we haven't had an outage yet (and probably won't ever with my luck).

I looked at the Generac but heard that the engines weren't of the quality that they used to.

Kohler seemed great, but the cold weather kits created too much of a price differential to justify it (or so I thought).

Cummins was great and very quiet, but way too expensive. I also realized that the 14 and 20kw Cummins models use Briggs and Stratton engines, so that made me more comfortable with my decision.

 

[soapii]

We have a 20kW Honeywell at our house. We have 2 meters (one is regular rate for the 200A main panel and one is discounted rate for the 100A geothermal panel) so we had to have 2 transfer switches. It is natural gas fed and we got the cold weather kit which is an oil heater and battery tender/blanket. It runs a self test once a week for 10 minutes.

--Joe

 

[davidlee]

I also have a Lister-Petter, 23Kw diesel. It was installed in 1999 and has worked well since then. It has a 50 gal belly tank and I have a 50 gal saddle tank from an old diesel truck which I use to transport the fuel home and have a 12 volt transfer pump to move the fuel around. I use my tractor with a front end loader to move the full saddle tank from my truck to the generator.
The unit burns about one gallon per hour at full load.

 

[NC4AB]

Just went through the same ice storm last week that Turbowoodworker went through, and was very, very lucky to only loose power for about 16 hrs.

Never could justify a dedicated back up genset but did spring for a trailer mounted Bobcat 250 welder generator combo and manual transfer switch. Pretty much will run the whole house except for the AC and I have a mobile welder to boot.

Only issue was I had done some welding week before last and had not topped the Bobcat up with fuel, which could have been bad if the power had been off longer.

Andy

 

[Coleman]

Nat gas.

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[The mean fish]

For those of you with installed generators, how are dealing with starter battery maintaining?

The original tender/charger that came with my Generac was a complete POS and went into full meltdown after the first 6 months of operation. Generac replaced it under warranty and the replacement unit lasted less than a year and cooked a brand new battery on it's way out. By that point I was out of the warranty period, Generac replaced the battery and I opted to handle the battery tender myself.

I installed one of these http://www.cloreautomotive.com/sku.php?id=315 from Clore and it worked fine for a year then just died. I didn't catch it until the battery was run down to nothing so I was again left with a dead battery in th generator.

I recently replaced it with this BatteryMINDer unit which is pretty impressive. When the Clore unit died it ran the batter to nothing and this thing brought it back from the dead. I've been really impressed with it, there's a little more logic behind it than just an on/off red light.

http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200483764_200483764

 

[Ross/Kzoo]

I'm still on my original battery after 12+ years. No problems yet,knock on wood.