I installed a 20KW Generac on natural gas a little over 3 years ago. The third week it failed to start on it's weekly exercise ans Generac sent someone out and replaced the automatic choke assembly. The tech said it was a common problem and they have been retrofitting alot of them with a different design. No more problems till this winter when it failed to start due to over crank on exercise. Went out and manually started it and it has run fine after that. Should mention it was about 10 below that morning. The one thing I wish I could do is change the exercise time and lengthen it in the winter. 12 minutes is not enough when it's really cold out. It runs just long enough to build up condensation in the oil and turn it milky so I usually run it manually right after the exercise for another 20 minutes and the oil has been staying clear. I called Generac and they didn't see to be interested in the problem
Standby generator, whose got one.
- Thread starter 10kredline
- Start date
Does the generator auto start when main power fails?
if yes, I would rig up a 7 day timer on the sense circuit & have it shut power off to "fool" the generator into thinking there is a power failure.
Set the timer to shut off weekly and for a period of time to allow a longer generator run time.
It has never failed to start on a power outage. That sounds like an interesting way to do it, at least for the winter. The thing I like about the exercise cycle is it only runs a 2400 RPM. That's why I called Generac in hopes of being able to change the preset program somehow to run longer. What I didn't like is they didn't seem to care that this could be a problem in colder climates in the winter.
The mean fish
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You would have to do some trickery if it's anything like mine because the transfer switch would switch over because the generator wouldn't be doing a weekly test run anymore, it would believe it's a real power outage and would switch the transfer switch. The t-switch is controlled by the control board in the generator which senses a loss of shore power and starts the switch over cycle.
Mustang51js
Well-known member
You would have issues with doing that on the generac stand by because it will switch the transfer switch when sensing no power and then interrupt power on the house shortly.
Mustang51js
Well-known member
They expect you to get the oil changed every year so that's why they don't care. They are starting to update things so maybe having the time adjustable will be in the future.
They should, but it probably won't do me any good.
Mustang51js
Well-known member
Unless they swapped out the board it won't. But your the first person I've heard say that about the oil,but most owners don't check the oil so that's why they probably don't hear about it much.
pentavolvo
Well-known member
I make due with a husky 1850 watt unit. Have an interlock kit and works great for my 1600 sq ft house. Lights, refrigerator, tv, and furnace. If I want to make coffee or use microwave the furnace must not be running. Not the nicest setup but works for us and is quiet and low cost
Hmrhead
Well-known member
We have a 10kw Honda portable generator that has 372 hours on it over the last 9 years. Longest ourage was 5 days. Tank of gas only lasts about 5.5 hours. Finally got a great deal on a Generac 13kw standby that is setting in the garage waiting for the snow to melt and the ground to thaw so it can be installed.
Can't wait for the peace of mind it will bring once it is hooked up. We now have a couple of salt water aquariums that are quite developed and have several $k worth of corals. The tanks can only survive 4-6 hrs with out power before bad things start happening. Get really worked up when storms are coming and I am going to work. Used to call the house several times a day during bad weather to make sure power was on, if off, had to hurry home and fire up the generator. Huge PITA. Plus when going on vacation had to train house sitter how to start the generator and pull the transfer switch or have a neighbor come over and do it.
Should be able to cover the installation cost by selling the old unit, 25' cord, ext. plug, and transfer switch. Bad part is gas meter on one side of home, panel on complete opposite side of home and basement is 95% finished with drop ceiling.
Can't wait for the peace of mind it will bring once it is hooked up. We now have a couple of salt water aquariums that are quite developed and have several $k worth of corals. The tanks can only survive 4-6 hrs with out power before bad things start happening. Get really worked up when storms are coming and I am going to work. Used to call the house several times a day during bad weather to make sure power was on, if off, had to hurry home and fire up the generator. Huge PITA. Plus when going on vacation had to train house sitter how to start the generator and pull the transfer switch or have a neighbor come over and do it.
Should be able to cover the installation cost by selling the old unit, 25' cord, ext. plug, and transfer switch. Bad part is gas meter on one side of home, panel on complete opposite side of home and basement is 95% finished with drop ceiling.
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10kredline
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the honda sounds like a nice unit. it's unfortunate your couldn't fab something to make it start on power loss. is it pull start or electronic?
Don't know if you've thought of it or checked but you need to make sure your gas meter can handle the extra load. I had to have the utility company come out and change mine.
I got a Kohler 20kw with 200amp whole house auto transfer switch. Love it. Installed it myself after some practice doing it for like 20 other people after Sandy.
I was without power for 4 days after Sandy. It was not nice. With a toddler, it was a pain. Now I have 2 toddlers, and don't want to even think of not having one. Mine is from the utility gas. I didn't want gas or diesel for the simple reason, sandy hit, no fuel at all. This unit can be converted to propane. But I never really looked into it.
I was without power for 4 days after Sandy. It was not nice. With a toddler, it was a pain. Now I have 2 toddlers, and don't want to even think of not having one. Mine is from the utility gas. I didn't want gas or diesel for the simple reason, sandy hit, no fuel at all. This unit can be converted to propane. But I never really looked into it.
If I remember right my Generac has a switch or valve to change over to propane. Not complicated.
Yea something along those lines. But I think I have to buy that separate.
Logistically it would be a nightmare for me to get propane tank into my back yard, in NYC. The only way I can get there, without going through my house, is asking a neighbor on the other side if I can go through his "driveway", and through his yard. That's how I got the generator back there. It wasn't fun, especially since his yard has built in planters out of concrete, that are 2' higher than my yard. Yea, we almost blew out a few disks moving the generator while stepping over all that. 3 people, not fun, and don't want to even think of getting propane there. If the city gas dies, I will pack up and go somewhere else. So far it has held up a few short blackouts, so I'm happy.
Hpozzuoli
Well-known member
I completely agree with you and your reasons for natural gas. I am currently using a portable diesel gen, but when we move in a few years a natural gas standby will be installed. I converted my BBQ to run off my house nat gas for the simple reason is I hate filling tanks. I got the diesel gen because I thought it was cool. Looking back I should have just got a standby for this house. One good thing with a nat gas house is you don't need a huge gen to run everything. My 6500 diesel runs everything thru an interlock device. Once on gen power I can use anything.
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Mustang51js
Well-known member
Yeah generac has a switch inside to change, you do get more power from lp also. You dont need to buy anything separate
Mustang51js
Well-known member
You can also get kits that use natural gas for portable generators, just changing the carb out. I plan on doing this sometime because I have a 10k portable gen, but I barely ever lose power.
Hmrhead
Well-known member
The unit is both pull start and electric start. Had an electricial contractor that is very experienced with standby generators look into trying to fab up an auto start for it but he was not convinced he could put together a set up that was reliable and cost effective.
Good point to bring up. The above mentioned electricial contractor did a BTU load calculation to make sure I wouldn't have to upgrade the gas meter in order to pass the permit. Wouldn't have to upgrade the meter unless I went with a 16-20kw unit. We have a gas furnace, gas dryer, cooktop, and 2 gas water heaters(odd set up for a 2200 sqft house, but we have plenty of hot water) and now the generator.
He said that for the permit approval the gas meter has to be able to supply enough gas to run all the gas appliances at the same time. Even if some of the units are not included in the circuts powered by the generator
We were only planning on running the furnace, one water heater and the generator. We have a propane grill, toaster oven, etc for cooking if needed. We will be able to run about 60-70% of the house with power, plus the well and furnace.mobiledynamics
Well-known member
Did you guys DIY / half install, trade install.
I've debated about it. It's not the $ factor.
Moreso, the frequency of needing it.
We don't get any outages due to storms.
Maybe a brownout 1 or 2X a year in the summer, 20 minutes to 45 minutes on average.
I have 2 EU2000'i.
Considered the full genset route ...always debating. Sandy did a # on us out here in NYC, so it's always on the back of my mind...
I've debated about it. It's not the $ factor.
Moreso, the frequency of needing it.
We don't get any outages due to storms.
Maybe a brownout 1 or 2X a year in the summer, 20 minutes to 45 minutes on average.
I have 2 EU2000'i.
Considered the full genset route ...always debating. Sandy did a # on us out here in NYC, so it's always on the back of my mind...
I installed the generator and all the electrical and had a licensed plumber run my gas line. He was best man at my son's wedding so we traded labor. Utility had to upgrade my meter, that cost me $450.00
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10kredline
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I had to upgrade my meter to run the gen set. Not for pressure, pressure was fine, but for volume. If all of my appliances were running I would draw the rated volume of the meter (250k but +/-). It would flow more but at a pressure drop. Gas company installed a meter that flowed 800k btu/hr and no charge to me. I had to fill out an appliance sheet basically explaining my request for the upgrade and to account for the volume. Like you said, it's got to be able to support all the appliances at the same time.
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Charles (in GA)
Well-known member
This is a desulfater unit and is probably the best choice for a battery tender. Batteries sulfate the most when sitting. This will help prevent that, and possibly restore life to already sulfated batteries.
Good choice.
Charles
I have a 1500w Coleman that I bought ~25 years ago. Figured good to have something in earthquake-ville.
I run it about once a year just to be sure it works.
A few years ago, in the middle of the worst heat wave in ages, we had a transformer on the power pole fail. Edison was swamped with outages. Used the generator for a couple of lights, a fan, and to run the refrigerator an hour at a time a few times a day.
It groaned a bit when the fridge kicked on but hung in there. We were without power for 3 days as I recall.
Worked great.
I run it about once a year just to be sure it works.
A few years ago, in the middle of the worst heat wave in ages, we had a transformer on the power pole fail. Edison was swamped with outages. Used the generator for a couple of lights, a fan, and to run the refrigerator an hour at a time a few times a day.
It groaned a bit when the fridge kicked on but hung in there. We were without power for 3 days as I recall.
Worked great.
Helix
Member
Use a DPDT timer relay for the extended exercise. At the time of exercise, the relay opens both the sensing circuit to start the run cycle and opens the transfer circuit (Wire 23 or Wire 194) to prevent transfer. Not difficult.
z28toz06
Well-known member
I had a whole house 200 amp transfer switch installed. Got the switch free, and purchased a Gas 8000 watt Briggs and Stratton generator from Generators direct I believe. It was a $1000.00. It's fairly quiet and I just pull it from the shed about 60 feet. I built a doghouse for it from a giant packing crate I grabbed from John Deere dealer by work. It's light enough to drop it over the top of the generator and not worry about rain snow etc, screwing with it.
manioso
Well-known member
I purchased a Generac 10kw (12.5kw surge) about 5 years ago and feed my panel through a mechanical interlock. An ATS would be more convenient, but I'm legal and safe with the interlock. My main panel is a 200a Challenger. Generac is gasoline fired and holds about 6 gallons, plus I have another 15 gallons or so for my lawn equipment which I rotate to keep fresh.
We have had to use the generator about six or eight times since 2009. Longest was for Sandy, when we were without utility power for 4+ days. Biggest problem was getting gasoline. Fortunately we were just north of where power was lost (Princeton), and south of Trenton gas stations were running and had supplies. During Sandy (and other long outages) we would run a couple hours in the AM, about 4 or 5 hours after dark, and then lights out for the overnight. Used about 30 gallons during Sandy.
After Sandy, my next door neighbor went whole hog with a 20kw Kohler, ATS, larger NG meter and gas line, etc. Nice set up, but cost him just north of $20K all-in. I'd love to do the same, but can't justify the expense. However, when his lights up once a month for auto exercise, I do think for a minute about reconsidering.
We have had to use the generator about six or eight times since 2009. Longest was for Sandy, when we were without utility power for 4+ days. Biggest problem was getting gasoline. Fortunately we were just north of where power was lost (Princeton), and south of Trenton gas stations were running and had supplies. During Sandy (and other long outages) we would run a couple hours in the AM, about 4 or 5 hours after dark, and then lights out for the overnight. Used about 30 gallons during Sandy.
After Sandy, my next door neighbor went whole hog with a 20kw Kohler, ATS, larger NG meter and gas line, etc. Nice set up, but cost him just north of $20K all-in. I'd love to do the same, but can't justify the expense. However, when his lights up once a month for auto exercise, I do think for a minute about reconsidering.
Stryker124
Well-known member
We have a Generac 13Kw NG unit that came with the house when we bought it 2 years ago. Its been a great unit that has saved us a couple times when the power was out for 1-3 days at a time.
It just recently it started failing to run during its weekly exercise session, and due to lack of time and bad weather, I waited too long and we had another outage before I started looking at it. It was the usual OC error that they get, and sometimes I could start it manually, and sometimes not. So I replaced the plugs and re-gapped them to spec, and took the battery and had it tested.
It still had issues, and I didn't have time to mess with it, so I made the mistake of calling a "certified" Generac repair place and asking them to come take a look. The guy they sent was nice enough, but he looked at the engine like he had never seen one before. He didn't do any diagnostics other than try turning it on and off repeatedly. In the end, after almost an hour, he said I probably needed a new starter and quoted me 4 hours of labor plus the part cost. I wasn't willing to pay 90.00 an hour for that amount of time to replace a bolt on part, so I ordered the part myself and did it in 45 minutes a few days later. Perhaps the generator repair place uses a book rate for labor, I don't know. The new starter didn't solve the issue, so on a whim, I pulled the battery out of my wife's CRV (I didn't want to have to reset my own radio stations after all
) and the generator fired right up. So 1 new battery and 1 new starter later, I have a working generator, and a spare starter.
TL|DR: 1. Test your own battery, or pull a known working one as a double check. 2. screen your generator repair companies better than I did. 3. find the time to complete the diagnostics yourself. It was a somewhat expensive lesson, but well learned.
It just recently it started failing to run during its weekly exercise session, and due to lack of time and bad weather, I waited too long and we had another outage before I started looking at it. It was the usual OC error that they get, and sometimes I could start it manually, and sometimes not. So I replaced the plugs and re-gapped them to spec, and took the battery and had it tested.
It still had issues, and I didn't have time to mess with it, so I made the mistake of calling a "certified" Generac repair place and asking them to come take a look. The guy they sent was nice enough, but he looked at the engine like he had never seen one before. He didn't do any diagnostics other than try turning it on and off repeatedly. In the end, after almost an hour, he said I probably needed a new starter and quoted me 4 hours of labor plus the part cost. I wasn't willing to pay 90.00 an hour for that amount of time to replace a bolt on part, so I ordered the part myself and did it in 45 minutes a few days later. Perhaps the generator repair place uses a book rate for labor, I don't know. The new starter didn't solve the issue, so on a whim, I pulled the battery out of my wife's CRV (I didn't want to have to reset my own radio stations after all
) and the generator fired right up. So 1 new battery and 1 new starter later, I have a working generator, and a spare starter.TL|DR: 1. Test your own battery, or pull a known working one as a double check. 2. screen your generator repair companies better than I did. 3. find the time to complete the diagnostics yourself. It was a somewhat expensive lesson, but well learned.
Ross/Kzoo
Well-known member
Stryker124, good point.
A funny thing happened last year. I got a bill in the mail for a spring check-up and oil change. This was from the contractor that did the initial hook-up but after 1 year I discontinued the yearly service and oil change and did it myself for the last 10 years. When I called the contractor about the bill he said they had called the week before to announce their visit. I never got the call and if I did I would tell them not to bother. Needless to say they ate that cost.
A funny thing happened last year. I got a bill in the mail for a spring check-up and oil change. This was from the contractor that did the initial hook-up but after 1 year I discontinued the yearly service and oil change and did it myself for the last 10 years. When I called the contractor about the bill he said they had called the week before to announce their visit. I never got the call and if I did I would tell them not to bother. Needless to say they ate that cost.
new here but a great find.found you through hemmings.we have a B&S 20 kw propane, nat gas is not available,gas goes bad in a week, so its propane or diesel. we bought this unit after the great ice storm that hit the ozarks in about 07 15 days no elect. I was in commiefornia and had to fly back fortunate to have sourced a 6.5 troy built after a wk. then later decided to get the auto standby. it has been a life saver power goes down here often but usually not for long periods of time but too long. I check the oil often run mobil-1 to prevent sludge, thick oil and run off. we are in the tornado zone here no other natural grimlens other than ice and wind. I am concerned about this unit being sucked away if a class 3 or higher tornado hit and will probably install some kind of cable straps for the gen and a 1K tank and a 500 gal tank. we ran low on propane this winter and was allowed a 250 gal fill last mo. at 4$ per gal.I guess thats what happens when others control products that others find in need.I am looking into a diesel gen now after realizing the limiting propane supply. love the comments keep em commin.
Stryker124
Well-known member
Good for you! I'm amazed that they would come without talking to you 1st. Does your enclosure have a lock?
TheEquineFencer
Well-known member
FWIW, IMO, If you run LPG or NG for an extended period of time you better know someone with an LPG truck to refuel you or have some deep pockets for the NG bill. They'll eat you alive. A buddy asked me my opinion on a Generic 12kwh lpg, I told him the same thing, knowing where he lived service was poor in ice storms. Ice storm was on the way, he had his tank topped off the day before. Three days into it he called me to go look at why it quit. I did a little math, a 10kwh load for 6-8 hours will kill a 40 lb cylinder. I figured it was out of gas. I told him to hook his BBQ gas cylinder to it but not to run it with a load. The cylinder is not big enough for the gas to vaporize fast enough sometimes. He killed the generator from it surging. Diesel is the way to go for an extended run.
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soj
Well-known member
I have a Kohler 14KW with ATS and am happy with it. Details here: http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=214181
olytdi
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OP
10kredline
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Nice! Happy to report that my 14kw set tests and runs when it should, and two power outages later carried the whole house like the utility was still there. Well worth the time and cost, and i did it DIY.
Charles (in GA)
Well-known member
The common generator that most of us have, is actually an Alternator. It makes Alternating Current (AC) directly. The engine has to run at a constant speed, either 1800 rpm, or 3600 rpm on the newer units, to produce the 60 cycle current. No matter the load, the engine is running "full blast". Granted, it doesn't use quite as much gas with no load, but loaded or not, it burns quite a bit, and makes a lot of noise.
The inverter units have a Direct Current generator, which makes the DC current that the inverter, thru electronics, turns into AC current. The speed of the generator is not fixed, there is no need for it to be, so unloaded, it runs slow, possibly at or near idle, and as the loads increase, the engine speeds up to carry the load and make DC current/voltage for the inverter to transform into AC current to power your devices. Due to the limitations of electronics, inverter generators tend to be smaller, usually not over about 3000 watts, as the electronics needed to make larger amounts of current is large and expensive.
Thru the magic of electronics, it is possible to parallel the AC cycles of two inverter generators, and thus carry heavier loads. Both Yamaha and Honda make synchronizing cables for doing just this. Set two units next to each other, connect them with the syncro cable, and start them up. If you have two 3000 watt units, the AC current waveforms will be synchronized and you have effectively, 6000 watts available to power a single device that either generator, by itself, could not do.
Charles
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nmcqueen469
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This guy just popped up on sale. Thoughts?
http://m.homedepot.com/p/Sportsman-...-LPG-or-Regular-Gasoline-GEN7500DF/204789149/
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http://m.homedepot.com/p/Sportsman-...-LPG-or-Regular-Gasoline-GEN7500DF/204789149/
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cowboyjosh
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90 Day Warranty and imported from China.