Standby NG Generator - 30 Hour Initial Maintenance

[HamAndEggs]

Whenever they decide to install it, I am getting a Generac RG027 installed. Its an 1800rpm liquid cooled unit with a 2.4l Mitsubishi engine (Vs the cheaper 3600rpm air cooled ones with a 999c china special)

interestingly, it REQUIRES a 30 hour oil and filter and change, while the air cooled ones just "suggest" it. Seems like the 999c could use it more! But who am I to argue, I am good with the 30 hour change

If I let it do its 10 min exercise once every week or two, it will be a while until I hit it, and if I have an extended outage I'll for sure hit it smack in the middle of a hurricane

I'm thinking of running it for extended periods after getting it installed while loaded with my house from the ATS to hit 30 hours, then doing the first maintenance

Good idea?

This will also test if the generator can take the load. The usual test is not loaded, and it also does not test the ATS

I figure if I run it for 4 hours 7 or 8 times, it will make sure I don't have ATS crib death that only becomes evident when I need it, and it will give the engine a real run in

What are your thoughts? Generac says to just let it hit 30 on its own.

 

[Stuart in MN]

I don't see a problem with what you propose. As you say, it really should be tested under load, and if there are any premature failures of the genset or the ATS you'll find them out while everything is still under warrantee.

The maintenance chart has a Schedule A which assumes 125 hours of running per year, so it's certainly designed to be able to run for extended periods.

 

[HamAndEggs]

Interestingly, they don't list the 4000 hour rubber belt timing change anywhere in the Generac documents that Mitsubishi require (Its also an interference engine)

 

[ihateminimumwage]

If you can make the time to run it for 30mins to 1hr loaded every week or so, you'll be doing it a favor versus how short they've cut the programmed exercise down to.

If you are good with the time and fuel to run it loaded for an extended period to hit that 30hrs, go for it. It's what they're built to do.

Generac probably just doesn't want people getting too many hours within warranty.

 

[HamAndEggs]

I should be able to do that with Genmon which I will be throwing on it ASAP. Luckily it looks like these liquid cooled units don't have the encrypted communication like the air cooled ones. I suspect because these are the same units they use in the commercial setting, there is probably all sorts of stuff they would break doing so

https://github.com/jgyates/genmon

One of the features is "Ability to start, stop, exercise and start / active the transfer switch (i.e. power your house off the generator) remotely."

I'll for sure be doing that. Most of the bad reviews for Generac go something like this "Never had a power outage in 4 years, first time we needed it, it never transferred"

 

[jeepxj]

run it for a sat/sun morning. see if it works and hit your 30 hours

 

[dcg9381]

What are your thoughts? Generac says to just let it hit 30 on its own.

I have an air-cooled 3600 RPM generac. During it's self exercise, it starts up, hits 3600 RPM then backs way off.. I don't know how yours differs.

I will say that for smaller genesets (no filters), initial break-in oil has lots of very fine metal in it. Typical engine break in is variable speed / variable load.... I think whatever you choose is fine as long as you get that oil changed at 30 hours

 

[ihateminimumwage]

I should be able to do that with Genmon which I will be throwing on it ASAP. Luckily it looks like these liquid cooled units don't have the encrypted communication like the air cooled ones.

Generac was the only manufacturer that was using their own communications versus the industry standard "2 wire start" that involves closing a set of contacts. I know some of their "Off Grid" approved home standby gens were able to be programmed for 2 wire start. Makes it so they can be hooked to any model transfer switch, battery bank controllers, or even a simple light switch (like every other manufacturer).

 

[mjeff87]

Definitely load test it if you're not experiencing power outages. My Generac is now 10 years old with about 200 hours of runtime, and the ATS crapped the bed. I'm not too mad about it, it is a mechanical part after all....that's the only thing I've ever had to fix on the whole system outside of leaking oil pressure switch last year. But, the new ATS was on national backorder and I had to wait about 4 weeks for the replacement. I could still run the generator (nothing wrong with it, and it still auto-started and stopped as usual), but I had to manually transfer the load if needed.

 

[Noltz]

Nothing wrong with what you're suggesting. I applaud getting the 1800 rpm engine vs 3600 and I'm certain your neighbors would too. That engine should have a timing belt which, in automotive and trades uses, is a 10 year life belt.

I agree with mjeff87 here and suggest you find a way to load test the generator periodically. I have a portable 9kw genset and use a pair of oil-filled room heaters I use to load it. Since it burns gasoline I run it every 2 weeks for about 15-20 minutes with the heaters on high. Keeps everything free and ready to go.

 

[HamAndEggs]

Generac was the only manufacturer that was using their own communications versus the industry standard "2 wire start" that involves closing a set of contacts. I know some of their "Off Grid" approved home standby gens were able to be programmed for 2 wire start. Makes it so they can be hooked to any model transfer switch, battery bank controllers, or even a simple light switch (like every other manufacturer).

Yeah, Generac was not my first choice. I was forced into by the absolutely terrible sales and service from the other vendors. Thankfully Genmon helps with that, and the battery I am looking at can support the Generac ATS

Definitely load test it if you're not experiencing power outages. My Generac is now 10 years old with about 200 hours of runtime, and the ATS crapped the bed. I'm not too mad about it, it is a mechanical part after all....that's the only thing I've ever had to fix on the whole system outside of leaking oil pressure switch last year. But, the new ATS was on national backorder and I had to wait about 4 weeks for the replacement. I could still run the generator (nothing wrong with it, and it still auto-started and stopped as usual), but I had to manually transfer the load if needed.

Good to know about the ATS, funnily enough some of the cummins models have no manual override, if they **** the bed, you have a nice big generator you can't use!

What was the fix for the oil situation like? Easy enough to find and fix?

Nothing wrong with what you're suggesting. I applaud getting the 1800 rpm engine vs 3600 and I'm certain your neighbors would too. That engine should have a timing belt which, in automotive and trades uses, is a 10 year life belt.

I agree with mjeff87 here and suggest you find a way to load test the generator periodically. I have a portable 9kw genset and use a pair of oil-filled room heaters I use to load it. Since it burns gasoline I run it every 2 weeks for about 15-20 minutes with the heaters on high. Keeps everything free and ready to go.

My neighbor actually has a 3600rpm model and our generators will be around 20ft apart, with a fence in the middle. So the noise will still be as loud as the 3600, but I'm alright with that

I plan on doing a biweekly 1 hour load test, sounds good?

I just got word the plans are all approved and ready, just waiting on the generator

 

[rlitman]

Generac was the only manufacturer that was using their own communications versus the industry standard "2 wire start" that involves closing a set of contacts. I know some of their "Off Grid" approved home standby gens were able to be programmed for 2 wire start. Makes it so they can be hooked to any model transfer switch, battery bank controllers, or even a simple light switch (like every other manufacturer).

Communications? The Generac ATS and GTS (we have four different transfer switches) at my work don't work that way. Did they change something?

The Generac system I'm familiar with sends 240V to the generator (yeah, 240V, even though we're a 3-phase 480 distribution system; there are a pair of step down transformers in the ATS). When the generator senses loss of line, it starts. The logic to start is in the generator, not the ATS. This is actually kind of critical, because the ATS does not have backup battery, so it loses power during an event, and will not be able to start the engine.

We have an OBD2 based annunciator and display panel that shows lots of engine data, but the communication wires between the ATS and generator are just a single pair of contacts that tell the generator to run. This comes into play once utility returns (and when I flip the test switch), since the ATS needs time to transfer to utility before the generator shuts down.

The GTS we have is even dumber. In it's case, there are a pair of wires that bring 240V in from the generator as a signal to the switch that the generator is running (we're not using this one to control the generator), and the GTS selects which source to use based on the output of a loss-of-phase relay hooked up to the three utility phases (this is actually a little off book, but was something I concocted to prevent the GTS from transferring every time the generator was run when utility was still available).

 

[jeepxj]

what size? their nexus controller for home standby is not a normal 2 wire start. you can get a kit to convert.

 

[Justin James]

First: Great choice on the 1800 rpm unit, more installers should mention this option during the sales visit. So much more quiet then the 3600 rpm units.

If your generator cannot handle the load of your house, then whomever did your load calculation did not do it properly. I would not worry about the 30 hr. oil change too much. If your in the middle of a power outage and hit 30 hours, no manufacturer is going to expect you to shut it down and do the maintenance at that exact time. Beside how would any of them know exactly when you did the first oil change unless they were there to see the hour meter.

Don't get too hung up on the air filter, seriously do you change your cars air filter every 125 hours? Doing a loaded test every 3 to 6 months is something I wish we could get more of our customers to do. It would greatly reduce the number of calls we get during a major power outage. Transfer switches if not actuated now and again, can get ( for lack of a better term) a bit sticky. We see it less with the newer Generac switches versus the old ones. The main problem normally occurs on the transfer back to utility once that is restored. There is a small relay in the gen set that controls that and it sometimes causes problems. Often it can be fixed by cutting the utility for a few seconds and the restoring it, sometimes you have to do that a few times.

The timing belt could become an issue, but normally it will be a long time before you hit 1000 hours. We have 30 year old generators that have not hit that many hours. In fact out of roughly 900 annual customers I cannot think of one person having over 1000 hours. We do have a few where the hour meter has gone wonky on us, but none have an honest 1000 hours. Take care of it and don't let rust get a foothold and that gen set will possibly out last you.

 

[ihateminimumwage]

Communications? The Generac ATS and GTS (we have four different transfer switches) at my work don't work that way. Did they change something?

The Generac system I'm familiar with sends 240V to the generator (yeah, 240V, even though we're a 3-phase 480 distribution system; there are a pair of step down transformers in the ATS). When the generator senses loss of line, it starts. The logic to start is in the generator, not the ATS. This is actually kind of critical, because the ATS does not have backup battery, so it loses power during an event, and will not be able to start the engine.

You're dealing with a Generac Industrial product if you're in the 480vac realm. Completely different animal than the Home Standby equipment with the Nexus and Evolution controllers.

 

[mjeff87]

HamandEggs.....it was the oil pressure transducer/switch, which screws into the block just next to the filter. It's a typical metal/plastic sensor that's crimped together. One day I opened the lid and saw a drop of oil on the floor under the engine. I traced it back to that switch, which had just started to leak at the crimp on the body in one spot. I hate, hate, hate engine leaks on anything (it was barely leaking a drop) but just ordered a new one from the company that installed the generator. About $20, and five minutes to unscrew the old one to replace it. The original wiring had spade connectors but the new switch had different terminals. I had to splice/solder ring terminals onto the wires to work with it, but it was no big deal.

 

[HamAndEggs]

First: Great choice on the 1800 rpm unit, more installers should mention this option during the sales visit. So much more quiet then the 3600 rpm units.

If your generator cannot handle the load of your house, then whomever did your load calculation did not do it properly. I would not worry about the 30 hr. oil change too much. If your in the middle of a power outage and hit 30 hours, no manufacturer is going to expect you to shut it down and do the maintenance at that exact time. Beside how would any of them know exactly when you did the first oil change unless they were there to see the hour meter.

Don't get too hung up on the air filter, seriously do you change your cars air filter every 125 hours? Doing a loaded test every 3 to 6 months is something I wish we could get more of our customers to do. It would greatly reduce the number of calls we get during a major power outage. Transfer switches if not actuated now and again, can get ( for lack of a better term) a bit sticky. We see it less with the newer Generac switches versus the old ones. The main problem normally occurs on the transfer back to utility once that is restored. There is a small relay in the gen set that controls that and it sometimes causes problems. Often it can be fixed by cutting the utility for a few seconds and the restoring it, sometimes you have to do that a few times.

The timing belt could become an issue, but normally it will be a long time before you hit 1000 hours. We have 30 year old generators that have not hit that many hours. In fact out of roughly 900 annual customers I cannot think of one person having over 1000 hours. We do have a few where the hour meter has gone wonky on us, but none have an honest 1000 hours. Take care of it and don't let rust get a foothold and that gen set will possibly out last you.

Yeah, I did not want a glorified lawn mower engine possibly running for 2 weeks flat out. It was liquid cooled or bust!

Its actually way oversized, this is the smallest liquid cooled unit they sell for a reasonable price. They do a 22 liquid cooled, but its hardly cheaper. The reason I mentioned the load is to test if something is wrong. If the exercise every week or 2 isn't loaded, its not really much of a test

For how expensive this thing is, I'm going to do a change right on 30 hours no matter what. I want no question about it if it ever gets to a warranty claim. The air filter I'll probably just change anyway, I've bought a few maintenance kits that include the oil filter, plugs and an air filter

The transfer switch getting sticky won't be an issue, I seem to lose power more and more

HamandEggs.....it was the oil pressure transducer/switch, which screws into the block just next to the filter. It's a typical metal/plastic sensor that's crimped together. One day I opened the lid and saw a drop of oil on the floor under the engine. I traced it back to that switch, which had just started to leak at the crimp on the body in one spot. I hate, hate, hate engine leaks on anything (it was barely leaking a drop) but just ordered a new one from the company that installed the generator. About $20, and five minutes to unscrew the old one to replace it. The original wiring had spade connectors but the new switch had different terminals. I had to splice/solder ring terminals onto the wires to work with it, but it was no big deal.

Good information! Thanks for that