Stanley black and decker

[Fialaja]

Everyone is waiting to see what they are doing with the craftsman tools and their warranty meanwhile I just look at some of their other acquisitions such as porter cable and I shudder. Here was a top notch company that made top shelf tools right here in America. And now? Consumer grade **** that is on level with the old black and Decker firestorm line... come on, people! These companies are about profits, not satisfying the 10% percent of people who want quality tools made in USA. Look at what Apex has done to quality brands. All closed down to make way for cheaper GearWrench ****.

You want American? You want quality? Buy Sk, Wright, Williams, channellock and Klein! Or go on eBay and buy the old stuff or the NOS from wholesale carriers like Epstein and Cripe.

 

[Coach James]

Every company is about profits from Apex on down to the hallowed "mom and pop" companies.

If only 10% of tool buyers are willing to pay the high price of American made tools, how many companies can that 10% keep in business?


Coach

 

[JoeMcGov]

Technically it is still Thanksgiving weekend. So GJ drunk posting may well still be going on.

Coach has it EGGZACTLY right.

 

[Andres26tnt]

Technically it is still Thanksgiving weekend. So GJ drunk posting may well still be going on.

Coach has it EGGZACTLY right.

lol true Coach is right, the 90% is not willing to pay for slightly better tools at a considerable price increase. I can say Gearwrench doesn't make **** tools anymore, the 120XP line is excellent and the sockets are good to.

 

[finn]

It would be sort of interesting to know what the use distribution is of any given tool purchased from a box or hardware store is over its lifetime.

Most tools probably have less tha ten hours of actual service, in hand and working, over, say, a fifteen year lifespan.

Does it make any sense at all for the average homeowner to buy a Snapon ratchet over an Apex or Stanley product?

I’m not talking about tradesmen or serious hobbyests, but your average suburban or small town homeowner.

 

[ChrisLS8]

I'm going to file this under the Cool Story Bruh section of the Dead Horse file

 

[5ktq]

SBD has Proto for the 10% that want American tools.

 

[sberry]

I got some cheap **** now going on 3 decades of severe service.

 

[mudflap]

I stopped drinking 4hrs ago..after my Bungles got clobbered by.........the browns. so the breathalyzer on my laptop finally let me log on.. I see Husky, kobalt, etc getting beat on every day..they genarally hold up as good as the truck brands. Keep in mind things like screwdrivers, bit sockets are consumables and dont count. The truck brands are considered "vanity"..tools by anybody under 30yrs old.. (xcept SO snap ring pliers, and line wrenches)...go ahead and spend the money on those kids...

 

[d.mcfarland]

It would be sort of interesting to know what the use distribution is of any given tool purchased from a box or hardware store is over its lifetime.

Most tools probably have less tha ten hours of actual service, in hand and working, over, say, a fifteen year lifespan.

Does it make any sense at all for the average homeowner to buy a Snapon ratchet over an Apex or Stanley product?

I’m not talking about tradesmen or serious hobbyests, but your average suburban or small town homeowner.

I actually agree 100% with this post. I'd be very curious to know usage.

SBD has Proto for the 10% that want American tools.

Even MAC is going all imported basically. Hopefully the quality is still there. Don't have much experience with it.

 

[Jeremy77]

Before I was “woke” to the world of top tier tools, I brutalized a Stanley socket set that I bought at Kmart around twenty years ago. I think that I even wrote a post about the 3/8 ratchet and it’s durability a while back. Looking back, it probably would’ve been easier at times if I had the correct assortment of tools for certain jobs but never did the quality of this Taiwanese set let me down.

 

[Y00PER]

I guess I had high hopes for what SBD would do with Craftsman, but when I see chinese made Stanley hacksaw blades selling for more than USA made ones at wal-mart, or chinese made Stanley hacksaws going for more than USA made ones, or Israeli made tool boxes costing the same as USA made ones, I have lost that glimmer of hope that SBD truly wanted to make Craftsman an American made tool again. They can't use the excuse that it's too expensive to make them here, since fully US made products that compete with their chinese ones are cheaper

 

[BDT/NWMN]

Stanley Black & Decker owns Proto. I am glad that Proto, for the most part, continues to operate at a high quality level. It would be sad to see the Proto name plastered on a bunch of cut rate dime store junk. Stanley Black & Decker is a company with enough brand names to build tools and equipment in everyone's price range.. I agree with Your displeasure in seeing a well respected name being applied to lesser quality products.

 

[d.mcfarland]

Stanley Black & Decker is a company with enough brand names to build tools and equipment in everyone's price range.. I agree with Your displeasure in seeing a well respected name being applied to lesser quality products.

That's what conglomerates do. They control the market from top to bottom. They use established names to produce sales.

Let's not forget that Stanley Black and Decker is a publicly traded company which means that they do business based on numbers on paper.

 

[WittHay]

Maybe the OP can give more insight into Porter Cable. All I know is they sell expensive routers at the local tool store and have a line of power tools at Lowes that is similar to the new Stanley Craftsman

Quick google search is that Black and Decker(DeWalt) bought them in 2004 and Stanley(Proto/Mac) and Black and Decker(DeWalt) merged in 2010. Did the "bad things" happen to Porter Cable a decade ago under Black and Decker or more recently under the merged Stanley Black and Decker?

 

[Fialaja]

Maybe the OP can give more insight into Porter Cable. All I know is they sell expensive routers at the local tool store and have a line of power tools at Lowes that is similar to the new Stanley Craftsman

Quick google search is that Black and Decker(DeWalt) bought them in 2004 and Stanley(Proto/Mac) and Black and Decker(DeWalt) merged in 2010. Did the "bad things" happen to Porter Cable a decade ago under Black and Decker or more recently under the merged Stanley Black and Decker?

Not sure on when that brand went south but it sure did so quickly! Pc power tools were top notch, with some considering its reciprocating saws to be better than Milwaukee. They made circ saws with blades available on either left or right, depending on user preference. The routers were of that same level of quality.

Hey,I’m all for meeting the price point needs of the masses, but why does doing so always seem to mean killing off the top tier product line? I mean, Chevrolet doesn’t killoff the corvette so it can sell more Malibu’s....why can’t we have both lines, a consumer line and a more professional level product?

 

[chaosracing]

SB&D owns many tool brands, On some they shipped production over to China (Craftsman was already there when still owned by Sears) and some they have started making more and more here in the US (DeWalt)

But think of them like a car manufacture. GM had many brands, yet the parts were interchangeable between them. Why? It was to cut costs and make it easier to mass produce the parts on a large scale and be able to use them on a variety of vehicles. Same goes for tool companies.

Does it **** when a good brand like Porter Cable and DeWalt take the hit for inferior parts or manuf. location. Sure does. I used to own a Porter Cable cordless drill in early 2000. It was a beast and lasted a long time. But around that time, Milwaukee and DeWalt were emerging as the brands to go to, and I switched to DeWalt. But then SB&D noticed after taking control of Porter Cable and thought they could cash in on the brand name and began making more tools under the Porter Cable name. Sadly, those were based off their cheaper B&D tools. Fast forward to today, I believe they are now more based off of DeWalt, but still made over in China.

SB&D has noticed what people want in specific brands. Notice how more and more of DeWalt is being made here in the US? Thats due to more interest in that variant. Given time, I think more of their brands will follow, but dont expect that for all as some are just simple consumer grade junk and will always be that.

 

[finn]

SB&D owns many tool brands, On some they shipped production over to China (Craftsman was already there when still owned by Sears) and some they have started making more and more here in the US (DeWalt)

But think of them like a car manufacture. GM had many brands, yet the parts were interchangeable between them. Why? It was to cut costs and make it easier to mass produce the parts on a large scale and be able to use them on a variety of vehicles. Same goes for tool companies.

Does it **** when a good brand like Porter Cable and DeWalt take the hit for inferior parts or manuf. location. Sure does. I used to own a Porter Cable cordless drill in early 2000. It was a beast and lasted a long time. But around that time, Milwaukee and DeWalt were emerging as the brands to go to, and I switched to DeWalt. But then SB&D noticed after taking control of Porter Cable and thought they could cash in on the brand name and began making more tools under the Porter Cable name. Sadly, those were based off their cheaper B&D tools. Fast forward to today, I believe they are now more based off of DeWalt, but still made over in China.

SB&D has noticed what people want in specific brands. Notice how more and more of DeWalt is being made here in the US? Thats due to more interest in that variant. Given time, I think more of their brands will follow, but dont expect that for all as some are just simple consumer grade junk and will always be that.

What does made in China have to do with quality?

Milwaukee is almost exclusively made in China, yet it’s pretty rare to see them bashed because of coo.

PC was gobbled up in an acquisition. Probably was unprofitable, with a minimal market share. The acquisition was a way for SBD to get more shelf space, market share and increase profits.

That’s how business works, so why get all nostalgic and teary eyed over the “loss” of a brand name.

GM no longer makes Oldsmobile, and Studebaker has been gone for over fifty years, but the world goes on, nevertheless.

 

[chaosracing]

What does made in China have to do with quality?

Milwaukee is almost exclusively made in China, yet it’s pretty rare to see them bashed because of coo.

PC was gobbled up in an acquisition. Probably was unprofitable, with a minimal market share. The acquisition was a way for SBD to get more shelf space, market share and increase profits.

That’s how business works, so why get all nostalgic and teary eyed over the “loss” of a brand name.

GM no longer makes Oldsmobile, and Studebaker has been gone for over fifty years, but the world goes on, nevertheless.

Being made in China has alot to do with it for some people and for some not so much. Chinese made stuff is cheaply made. Even Harbor Freight is beginning to have better quality stuff made in Taiwan or other places other than China.
Sure brands come and go and the world will continue on. But sometimes what kills those brands is the cheaply made junk from other countries and more and more people looking at cost vs quality. I for one prefer USA made stuff since it helps Americans earn a living, but I also do realize that buying stuff made in other countries is also a given. Thats why I also look to see if I can buy stuff made in other countries other than China.

 

[chaosracing]

As for what the OP said about warranties on Craftsman, supposedly the warranty is the same no matter who sells it. I have not had to have anything warrantied yet since ACE has started selling Craftsman, but I did talk to a few guys at ACE and they said as long as the part numbers are legible and they can get it or a replacement item, they will warranty the stuff. Lowes told my brother that the other day when he questioned them.

 

[jgromada]

Let's not just rail against SBD, there are many that are upset what has happened to Milwaukee quality as well. A lot of Milwaukee is sourced overseas as well. Where is Makita made?

We've seen these drunk posting rants here on GJ all the time.

 

[sberry]

Most of this doesnt mean a pinch of shate to most people. There is no shortage of stuff to buy. Some of the PC recips were ok and they made some specialty stuff but the saw I had was nothing to write about and the Milwaukee s I have are outstanding in comparison.
I have used some "consumer" grade stuff in a "professional" and trade level capacity. Some has outlasted its sister models that cost 3x.
The dirty secret today is that some of it is the same in a different package, couple features changed and sold in a different store at a marked up price for branding.
Lots of tools done this way, look at how many wrenches are identical to the RP, bunch of brand names, same die, same steel. Same **** with scredrivers, same shank and tip in another handle with fans raving or hating,, same fuggin screwdriver.

 

[sberry]

Snapon has some proprietary, Fein has some, 95% of the rest of it the same, comes off the same 2 or 3 lines.
Look at some products in Wally. Hand can openers a good example. There is a 98cent wire one, a 2$ model, some between 3 and 5 and 1 that cost 7. The 2 and 7 are identical except for grip and package with brand name, could even see a score from stamp die, both of those better than the rest.

 

[sberry]

It's become a myth that the value is in the middle, often its near the bottom. Wheel brg for a cadillac, 40/90/120$. I am not sure what the difference is in the 120 is but the 90 is the same as the 40 with a NAPA sticker added to the white box. I was in the back of an Auto Value store a while back. They got a rubber stamp ink pad and a box of stickers, lots of the branding done right in the back room. Mufflers, axles, brake drums and rotors, all kinds of stuff delivered to them white box.

 

[sberry]

No point is saving 25 or 50 cents and creating another whole line of tracking and inventory on many items when you can stamp the box and make 50$. The Performax osc saw I bought looks and feels identical to the yellow one and the Rigid. Spittin image except for color and box. 40 vs 90. Do we figure someone went in and reworked it with a file to try and save 50 cents, cost more to try than they could save. There is a cheaper one at 28$ but it is obviously different,,, same thing with the 10$ HF grinder, obviously cheaper but a guy can find a 30$ one that is the same as many 90$ ones.

 

[sberry]

Quality steel can be made today for just a few$ more a ton than junk. Not worth 2 different lines when 20$ can be made on a single wrench set with brand. Not worth the cost. World class adjustable wrenches can now be found at fleas, all well finished minus a brand stamp on the handle. So good and so cheap it has dam near eliminated the market for the uber cheap one only costs a buck or 2 less.

 

[intillzah]

It's become a myth that the value is in the middle, often its near the bottom. Wheel brg for a cadillac, 40/90/120$. I am not sure what the difference is in the 120 is but the 90 is the same as the 40 with a NAPA sticker added to the white box. I was in the back of an Auto Value store a while back. They got a rubber stamp ink pad and a box of stickers, lots of the branding done right in the back room. Mufflers, axles, brake drums and rotors, all kinds of stuff delivered to them white box.

In the 10 years that I worked Case/IH and John Deere I NEVER saw/did this. BUT I'm not saying that it doesn't happen..

 

[sberry]

I doubt they were doing it in the back of a tractor dealer, different scenerio.
But JD is now vending others parts, AI and have rebadged a lot of tools over the years, equipment too.

 

[intillzah]

I doubt they were doing it in the back of a tractor dealer, different scenerio.
But JD is now vending others parts, AI and have rebadged a lot of tools over the years, equipment too.

This is true, I think that Deere owns A&I, most of their hand tools are blue point re badges. A&I's prices aren't too bad for 3rd party...

 

[four.cycle]