Stanley is suing Stanley

[Bubba Fett]

Tool company is suing the Mug company.

Why Black and Decker is trying to remove the ‘Stanley’ from the iconic mugs

Stanley Black and Decker said it wants to protect its brand and reputation after PMI — which makes Stanley cups — was forced to recall 2.6 million cups due to faulty lids that led to burns

www.the-independent.com

It's Stanley versus Stanley in trademark lawsuit

Connecticut-based toolmaker Stanley Black & Decker is suing Stanley 1913, the Seattle company that makes trendy travel mugs involved in a recent safety recall.

www.ctpublic.org

 

[cody1325]

Huh, appears as though at one point, they used to be known as Aladdin. Most of the stuff around here is the old Aladdin--including my plastic thermos from the '80s (ex-Granddad's) and Granddad's old dinner bucket from the mines.

Since when did they switch to using Stanley vs. Aladdin? Seems I recall seeing that branding in stores well into the '00s. Wasn't aware they were one in the same.

 

[ohhimark]

That makes sense. I thought they were the same company.

 

[Firebrick43]

William Stanley Jr invented the steel vacuum flask in 1913 and started producing Stanley thermos soon after. Absolutely nothing to do with Stanley tool company other than sharing the last name.

Aladdin purchased them in 1965.


Looks like SBD has been flexing its legal team several timess through out the years.

This a kin to the lawsuit that McDonalds did years ago suing a small mom and pop restaurant that the owners were named McDonald and didn’t use any of the trademark colors/symbols/logos.

 

[FigN⋅m]

 

[Bert_]

That was perfect

 

[cannuck]

Next thing you know Black & Pecker will be suing the NHL to call the Stanley Cup the hockey cup or some nonsense.

 

[NUTTSGT]

That makes sense. I thought they were the same company.

I thought the same thing.

 

[acer66]

I thought the same thing.

Same here and kinda makes sense since a lot of tool companies sell flasks etc too.

 

[NUTTSGT]

Same here and kinda makes sense since a lot of tool companies sell flasks etc too.

Yep, I guess I just think about the days of old when a guy (or gal) went to work with a lunch box and Stanley thermos then used Stanley tools to do the job.

 

[cannuck]

Bottom line is that for the last century, businesses were owned and run by the entrepreneurs and their families who would respect another's rights to use their own names. Today the shift to financial entities owning these companies means the snot nosed brats with shiny new Harvard MBAs will do as Wall Street taught them and screw over everyone and anyone they can just because they can.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

Well, my first thought as a vintage hand tool collector was Plumb (the old Philly area striking tools maker) vs. Plomb (the upstart L.A.-based mechanics tool maker) - which Plomb lost, but....

Did anyone read the articles before taking kneejerk positions?

I'm no fan of our overly litigated society, conglomerations, or snot-nosed Harvard grads (even my own! ), but in this case, I actually think Stanley Black & Decker has a good argument. They had an agreement with Aladdin since 1966, updated with PMI in 2012, that the "Stanley" name would not be used by itself, but always with the Aladdin name, and then the PMI name. PMI marketing the products without the "PMI" name, especially because Stanley does market accessories (clothing, mugs, etc) other than tools, does seem like a move away from the agreement. Also, Stanley Black & Decker did not initiate this until PMI's Stanley mugs suffered all kinds of class action suits and a massive recall last year due to the mugs spilling, the lids coming off, and burning people.

I rarely side with Goliath, almost always with David, but in this case, I think they have a legitimate concern.

 

[Firebrick43]

Did anyone read the articles before taking kneejerk positions?

Yes

Looks like SBD has been flexing its legal team several times through out the years.

It was lawfare in 1966 and in 2012 as well. Stanley thermos have been on the market for over a 100 years, long before SBD started market mugs and clothing.

In 1966 and 2012 PMI’s predecessors probably capitulated as they could ill afford to take on the 800 lbs legal gorilla.

With the success of the Stanley mug fad they might finally be flush with cash that they have some stones for their sling and can stand up to Goliath.

Your stance is that PMI was bludgeoned is threats of lawfare in 66’ and 12’, and therefore unethically subjugated in the past and should still be?

 

[NUTTSGT]

Maybe Stanley B&D should buy out "cousin" Stanley PMI ?

Problem solved.

 

[niget2002]

I hope Stanley wins.

 

[RegeSullivan]

Not that it matters but for me... the funny thing about SBD being the aggressor here is I've always thought a Stanley being the at the lower quality end of tool except for some older wood planes and even those were hit or miss castings.
Where Stanley thermos seemed at the higher end of quality.

 

[mikey03]

I hope Stanley wins.

all due respect man your wrong about that honestly I really hope Stanley wins

 

[Private Lugnutz]

It was lawfare in 1966 and in 2012 as well.

If that's your conclusion, then of course we'd have nothing to discuss. Did you read the agreements? Without reading the agreements, I am not prepared to determine that. Trademark law and the history of trademark law has always heavily favored first use. On its face, I wouldn't consider SBD asking Aladdin (and then PMI) to simply associate their company name (e.g., Aladdin Stanley, PMI Stanley) with a name that was TM'd by itself nearly a half-century earlier to be in the least heavy handed, let alone unethical, no. And the fact that they agreed and were abiding by the agreement for many years - and then stopped, does not bode well for them. I guess we'll see what the courts think.

 

[rust in the eye]

Maybe somebody ought to sue SBD for soiling the reputations of, hmmm

 

[liliysdad]

The whole thing is silly. No one in their right mind assumes they are, or ever were the same company or related in any way. Stanley 1913, formerly Aladdin Stanley, has never alluded to that, has never used a logo with a similar font or design. Folks hunting for a Stanley thermos are not going to be confused by their name being similar to that of a tool company, or a steam cleaning company, or an office supply company. The same is true for someone looking for a drill or screwdriver. Its asinine.

Seems interesting that this only becomes an issue after Stanley 1913s value has skyrocketed in recent years. Even more interesting is that both companies have a current estimated net worth of 13.5 billion.

 

[dchawk81]

That makes sense. I thought they were the same company.

I did too at first. And couldn't stop myself making the joke "damn I wish I had a Stanley cup, but can't afford one."

 

[dchawk81]

Huh, appears as though at one point, they used to be known as Aladdin. Most of the stuff around here is the old Aladdin--including my plastic thermos from the '80s (ex-Granddad's) and Granddad's old dinner bucket from the mines.

Since when did they switch to using Stanley vs. Aladdin? Seems I recall seeing that branding in stores well into the '00s. Wasn't aware they were one in the same.

I remember the Aladdin brand vaguely. Had no idea they were one & the same.

 

[liliysdad]

Aladdin was the owner and manufacturer of Stanley from 65-02, when PMI acquired the combined entity. That was the end of US manufacture.

 

[BlakeTheCarGuy]

Glad I’m not the only one who thought they were the same company lol.

 

[Bubba Fett]

The whole thing is silly. No one in their right mind assumes they are, or ever were the same company or related in any way. Stanley 1913, formerly Aladdin Stanley, has never alluded to that, has never used a logo with a similar font or design. Folks hunting for a Stanley thermos are not going to be confused by their name being similar to that of a tool company, or a steam cleaning company, or an office supply company. The same is true for someone looking for a drill or screwdriver. Its asinine.

Seems interesting that this only becomes an issue after Stanley 1913s value has skyrocketed in recent years. Even more interesting is that both companies have a current estimated net worth of 13.5 billion.

There are people in this vey thread that thought they were the same company.

Supposedly, SBD feels that the recent massive recall of Stanley mugs has hurt their image, which is what previous agreements were supposed to avoid. I can see that, to a degree at least.

Also, Stanley (SBD) does make office supplies, like staplers, sometimes under the Bostitch brand.

 

[Wamsutta]

“PMI’s Stanley brand dates back to 1913 when William Stanley, Jr. developed the revolutionary vacuum flask,“ PMI said in its statement. “[Stanley Black and Decker's] filing appears aimed at exploiting PMI’s Stanley brand affinity and fanbase, which has been carefully cultivated and nurtured over the past 100+ years.“

"carefully cultivated and nurtured"

 

[dchawk81]

“PMI’s Stanley brand dates back to 1913 when William Stanley, Jr. developed the revolutionary vacuum flask,“ PMI said in its statement. “[Stanley Black and Decker's] filing appears aimed at exploiting PMI’s Stanley brand affinity and fanbase, which has been carefully cultivated and nurtured over the past 100+ years.“

"Carefully cultivated and nurtured."

If date of origin becomes a major factor, looks like Stanley (tools) wins.

 

[dchawk81]

Not that it matters but for me... the funny thing about SBD being the aggressor here is I've always thought a Stanley being the at the lower quality end of tool except for some older wood planes and even those were hit or miss castings.
Where Stanley thermos seemed at the higher end of quality.

Thermos is actually a brand itself, like Kleenex. Just FYI.

 

[Firebrick43]

If that's your conclusion, then of course we'd have nothing to discuss. Did you read the agreements? Without reading the agreements, I am not prepared to determine that.

But you are siding with SBD without reading it?

No lawyer writes their threats down. There was no other reason to sign the agreement other than threat of financial ruin.

Trademark law and the history of trademark law has always heavily favored first use.

You are correct except when the trademark is a last name that is directly associated with the company as long as style/trade dress isn’t used as well.

Norman McDonalds vs McDonalds or Nissan Motors vs Nissan computers. Both companies lost to the individuals who shared the same last name.

In Europe McDonalds has even lost on putting Mc in front of things.

 

[tarbellb]

I actually thought this was one arm of Stanley BD that was doing a good job. Gave them props for it even......

Classic, they don't have anything to do with it and want to ruin that too?

 

[dchawk81]

But you are siding with SBD without reading it?

No lawyer writes their threats down. There was no other reason to sign the agreement other than threat of financial ruin.

You are correct except when the trademark is a last name that is directly associated with the company as long as style/trade dress isn’t used as well.

Norman McDonalds vs McDonalds or Nissan Motors vs Nissan computers. Both companies lost to the individuals who shared the same last name.

In Europe McDonalds has even lost on putting Mc in front of things.

Yeah it's all complex that's why we rely on judges to ruin our lives.

 

[liliysdad]

Welp you're objectively wrong.

Not really...I qualified that statement, and I stand by it. No one, in their right mind, would assume they are the same. Neither company has done ANYTHING to promulgate that assumption, nor does it make any sense on its face.

 

[dchawk81]

Not really...I qualified that statement, and I stand by it. No one, in their right mind, would assume they are the same. Neither company has done ANYTHING to promulgate that assumption, nor does it make any sense on its face.

That's not how that works.

You can't just say anyone who makes that mistake isn't in their right mind.

As far as "doesn't make sense on its face"

There are Caterpillar branded mugs and boots and outerwear so the idea of Stanley tools branding mugs isn't crazy.

 

[liliysdad]

That's not how that works.

You can't just say anyone who makes that mistake isn't in their right mind.

As far as "doesn't make sense on its face"

There are Caterpillar branded mugs and boots and outerwear so the idea of Stanley tools branding mugs isn't crazy.

It was an exaggerated statement made for effect....hyperbole, even.

Its no different than Harrison Ford suing Ford Motor Company because a handful of folks assume he builds them because the name is the same, and the quality of the vehicles is causing him damage. Its not Stanley 1913 or PMIs fault that people choose to be clueless, or make ridiculous assumptions based on a lack of research or abject laziness.

 

[dchawk81]

It was an exaggerated statement made for effect....hyperbole, even.

Okay. Fun times. Good chat. You're still wrong.

 

[NUTTSGT]

Arguing over a tool company and a cup company makes me think that someone is not in their right mind.

Time to end this ******* match before someone goes too far.