Starting build, zoning problems, workaround?

[MileHi]

Hi everyone, I'm starting my first thread. I am set to start the project for a detached garage, somewhere 1500 to 2000 sf. I've run into my first big obstacle and needs some ideas for how to best work around it.

Here's the basic zoning constraints:
- Maximum size for Garage and/ or Accessory structure is 1000sf and max. in a single dimension is 36 feet.
- Technically you are welcome to have an unlimited number of structures on your property, but individually they cannot be larger than 1000sf ( so for example, you could have 8 separate structures of 1000sf)
- The garage and workshop if combined are more than 1000sf, need to be separated.
- Separation means they cannot touch or share roof. ( the staff said that technically they can be a few inches apart , but need to be separate.)
- The two structures can have a slab that connects them. (separation pertains to wall and roof.)
- Max roof height is 15'.

So, if I want an area larger than 1000sf I'm screwed. I can build a single slab of 2000sf but have to put 2 separate structures on it, they could be inches apart. Can't share a common wall or roof.

I am thinking of techniques where I could build the 2 structures, but then join them together somehow later on. Perhaps if this is done creatively I could end up with something nice.

I'll post some drawings next, but please share any ideas. I need to get creative.

Regarding asking for a zoning variance, very hard to do and maybe a non-starter.

I have a 2 acre lot, so too much lot coverage is not an issue. Plenty of real estate.

 

[Hilltopmasonry]

If it is attached to your home is there still a limit? Maybe you can have a 3 season room to connect it to your house? Quite a few years ago in my county a guy built a massive detached garage that was too big however he got around it because he had 100 foot breezeway to connect it to the house which at the time Met code. There was a huge dispute about that and the county got smart with their breezeway requirements and changed the breezeway allowance, now he wouldn’t be able to do that

The zoning laws in my town allow you to have any size garage as long as it’s attached and it meets all of the other set back and land “green area” requirements however if the garage is detached you are limited to 1050


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[matt_i]

I like this idea of merging with the house.

I wouldn't connect two separate structures, you go to sell someday and it comes back as a violation, the buyers will want it corrected at your expense.

 

[buddyboy]

call your zoning dept and ask them about the procedure to get a variance to the restrictions.

people do it all the time

 

[laser3kw]

call your zoning dept and ask them about the procedure to get a variance to the restrictions.

people do it all the time

That is what I did. I got 1200sq ft with 12ft walls. Had to go to a Zoning board of appeals. I presented the ZBA a layout of the current property and surrounding property, purposed additional building. I showed that it did not encroach on neighbors property, had suitable setback, was not an eyesore or visible from the street and that there where other such structures in the area that were of similar construction, therefore, not out of the ordinary for the area.
Prepare your case, it is a judicial procedure.

 

[ItsNemo]

Why not just build two structures? One for storage at a lesser cost (non-insulated, no heat, basic electrical only, etc), one for working with all the bells and whistles? Would probably be cheaper in the long run than building one larger structure and fully finishing it.

 

[RVDan]

I think two 1000 sq ft garages would be great.

 

[MileHi]

OK, here is the concept I am going for. Ignore the specific measurements or descriptions, this is approximate. The large oval shapes approximate full size vehicles and pickups.

Usage will be automotive and general utility/fab and family cave. Would like to be able to drive an RV into it.

 

[MileHi]

Here is the concept with 2 structures. Common slab and all under slab services.

I want the following utilities to service each building. Radiant heat, water, electrical 220v, natural gas, compressed air. The ability to roll heavy things between building without a bump on the floor.

https://kkf1ba-dm2305.files.1drv.co...faapj0508w?width=722&height=392&cropmode=none

 

[Jlbc212]

Where I live there is also a 1000 sqft. limitation for a detached structure. If a garage/shop it is attached to the house, there is no size restriction.

 

[Stuart in MN]

call your zoning dept and ask them about the procedure to get a variance to the restrictions.

Do this first before spending a lot of energy on trying to find a workaround. I had to get a variance for my garage due to the overall height, and it ended up being a pretty simple process.

However, that was just my experience in my city, so you'll have to find out how easy or hard it is where you live.

 

[wornoutoldman]

I'd be looking for a zoning varience.

 

[ford33]

Ask about a zoning variance. You're giving up without even asking. Do your homework and find out how other variances were granted.

If you make the structure visually appealing with extra architectural elements, instead of a big old building, then they may approve it. Also, if you can provide some water conservation or water run-off improvements that would benefit you and your neighbors that would get your neighbors on your side and you can submit their written approvals to the board. It would help your case.

You should look at this as a win-win situation for you and the community. Building departments want people to improve their land. It improves the community appearance and increases tax revenue. You just must be smart about it.

 

[BucksCtyMike]

A roof covered walkway from home to garage counts as an attached structure as long as the walkway roof meets the home and the garage.


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[PNWguy]

Get creative, and also talk to contractors who have dealt with the issue already.

For example, I wanted to build a shop with an "office" I could live in for a year, while building my new house. The county passed a "no non-residential structures on residential land until the residence is built" ordinance. This is on 5 acres, that nobody else can even see.

My contractor suggested building a really small house with a 2,000 sq ft attached garage. When that is complete, I'll put in for a permit to build a house, and when it's done, I'll take the shower out of the shop bathroom so it's not a house. But the small expense of building a studio apartment with a 2,000 sq ft garage will allow me to do what I want. There are ways around stupid rules.

 

[rnixon]

Most municipalities adopt the State building code in it's entirety , then amend the State code, in the form of their own zoning and building ordinances. Ostensibly this is to meet the "needs of the community" in reality, it is usually to meet the needs of a special interest group

In my town that special interest group was the local Conservation Commission. They lobbied for, and succeeded in, having what I considered unreasonable, set-back and side yard clearance, hight restrictions and open space requirements incorporated into the local zoning and building code

It has been my experience that those in government seeking to advance their own agenda, especially if it is a single issue agenda, are often not the best and brightest.

It was with that in mind that I researched my State's building code , and on advise of a very wise an devious man [my brother] I paid particular attention to the State's definitions

Knowing that the local Pol's had most likely not covered all the bases, I was looking for what they overlooked. What I found, was four words ,in the State's definition of an attached structure, that allowed me to circumvent the setback, hight and open space requirements imposed by my town for a detached garage, and to do it at minimal cost. The definition read ,in part, "any attachment, TO INCLUDE A FABRIC shall constitute an attached structure, and wonder of wonders that definition had not been precluded, amended or even addressed by my town

It was the best of both worlds because the awning [Sun-Setter] between my home and new garage is fire rated, non- flammable I did not have to build to the more stringent fire, and other standards of a true attached garage

If you have not done so, I would advise you to diligently search your State Code, because what you seek, you may find. Good luck with your build!

 

[NUTTSGT]

The building dept will tell you a variance is hard to get people they don't want the extra work. The more people that get them, the more work they have to do and people see the results. Then more and more people ask questions and it becomes a cycle that they don't want.

Get you ducks in a row, and ask about the variance, go to the committee meetings, talk to your neighbors and present what you want to build to them. Often times, passing a variance is based on your neighbors approval to what you build.

 

[jimindm]

I am not sure how you are going to get past the 1000 square feet of accessory structures. Being on a slab.

Just reading your post it appears that you want to put two buildings on one slab that measure more than that. A 1000 feet is just that.

I would say look at attaching it. That will likely drive up the cost, because of fire walls and such. Depending on how close you were to build them anyway, you may already have the need for fire walls.

Most people are afraid of the ZBA boards. The truth is that most that make it that far are granted in our city. Of coarse you have to get by the building department desk. That is were setbacks, materials, and everything else come into play.

We to have the 1000 ft rule in our city, and I have two garages that meet that rule. I also have a few sheds that put me over that. I too read up and it seems that sheds built on a type of sled system are temporary structures. Not really attached to a slab or anything, so I could just move them. I suppose I could move them, but they have been in the same spot for many years.

I would also caution anyone anymore from pushing the limits on outbuildings. The county has been here due to aerial surveying, that I am sure through some type of programing, to make sure I do not have more than that.

One last thing. I get that most want the biggest and best in garages. Many times I see these plans and think of the cost that these things are going to be. Not to judge the affordability, but the ROI of such a project is out there aways.

I suppose the guy behind the counter may just be nice in telling you not to go for it. If he knows footings and other such things are required. Many times out building may have to be constructed in the same style as the residence. That also goes along way with a ZBA board. Vinyl siding is one thing, but hardiplank, brick, stucco and other could raise the price of such a building a great deal.

 

[velocipede]

Inj my area there is a minimum distance between structures, 15' IIRC and it carries limits on the number of windows and requires fire rated materials. Check before you plan two structures that close together.

 

[Radix2]

I had a similar situation issue, resolved it by attaching to house.

For those who say "variance", the OP is proposing a building 2x the size and much taller than permitted. That is not a "variance", that is a "completely ignore the ordinance" request.

He is also under a 15 foot height limitation - not very practical for any 2000 sq ft building or even a 1000 sq ft wanting to park a rv inside. This was my main limitation - accessory building no higher than house (ranch)... after joining to house, limit was 35 feet..

So unless the zoning is about completely unenforced, you need to take a serious look at what it would take to get what you want within or at least reasonably close to the rules.

 

[yeldogt]

I have had my share of problems -- things that fly in one town are impossible in another. Wealthy towns w/historic districts, conservation and open space .. be careful. Ask the local code official if there are any retired architects working in the area ... I have found them to be great resources ... and you often need a set of stamped plans anyway. Getting the proper advise in the beginning save time and money ... less stress.

 

[lakeroadster]

I would move.

There are a lot of suburbs and land around Denver that don't have the zoning restrictions you are dealing with.

When we were contemplating moving from Ohio to Colorado back in 2004 that was our stipulation to our realtor, must find a home where we can build 1200 sq foot outbuilding with a 14 foot side wall and must have a 3 car attached garage.

Then when we found homes we liked I called the local zoning folks to ensure we would be able to build our shop.

Also, be mindful that you don't "over improve" the property. If you buy the right property all the money you put into it, you will get back when you sell.

Good luck with your journey!

 

[bczygan]

What you say that "they" told you, doesn't make sense. I would not trust verbal claims.

Get the zoning regs and read them.

Bill (Designer who dealt with this all the time.)

 

[cory58]

A roof covered walkway from home to garage counts as an attached structure as long as the walkway roof meets the home and the garage.

Not always. As of 2015 in Charlotte, NC, if the covered walkway does not exceed a certain width and is open on both sides, the garage is still considered detached. Nice lady at the zoning office actually gave me a copy of the applicable code page.


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[manwithtools]

I don't see how you could possibly build two buildings that close together. There's not enough room between them to install siding or soffit materials. A common slab is going to present water intrusion problems (at the base of the walls) as well. You would also need footers under the the walls that are at the middle of the slab.

This plan needs further thought in my opinion. Zoning variance or possibly finding different property without the restrictions as alternatives to the two building plan.

 

[Timberjock]

Are you zoned agricultural ? If not, make that happen. Then life gets easy when it comes to building things

 

[Radix2]

Not always. As of 2015 in Charlotte, NC, if the covered walkway does not exceed a certain width and is open on both sides, the garage is still considered detached. Nice lady at the zoning office actually gave me a copy of the applicable code page.


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Yes, very much local code specific. Our local code is that a garage is not attached unless the common wall is part of a conditioned living space.

An unheated breezeway would not comply.

He needs to download the local definitions, this is a common issue, so they probably have some detailed language on what defines "attached".

 

[driftpin]

I'm surprised at the cavalier attitude some replies display. Perhaps in some parts of the country, the replies are consistent with local practices. My experience in municipal areas is different from those 'easy-to-solve-this' replies.

I've worked as a plans examiner, a planner, and an inspector, and still carry my credentials, though I recently retired (for the second time).

In my experience, requesting a variance is usually not a fruitful endeavor. It is expensive, and even when using a roll-call of professionals, you are going to end-up out a lot of $$$ and not-able to do what you want. Same thing goes for requesting a zoning change, it's difficult to achieve, and the process isn't easy. It's that way for a purpose-to discourage them.

When I was working as a planner, I saw decisions made by government employees that flew in the face of the ordinances and codes, but you know what is said about 'fighting city hall.' I had one co-worker who actually quit rather than sign-off on documents she had never reviewed, when ordered to do-so by her supervisor.

If you are in a rural area, you probably already have AG (agricultural) zoning, which is very liberal in development rights. The fact that you're dealing with a zoning design issue tells-me you aren't in an AG zoning district, that you have restrictions against what you want to do in your initial consideration, and that there are ways to give you what you want, just with additional cost, because the footprint size for each structure is restricted.

If you want to build multiple structures close-together, you might research what the separation requirements are under your local code, for insurance purposes, and for ease and cost of construction. I would look at the current edition of your local building code and the life safety code, and please recall that occupancy and use play a very important part in the design and for things like separation. Do not try to 'pull a fast one,' where you say you're going to build and use a structure or structures for something like storage, and once-built, it's a welding production shop, or doing painting, metal plating, or some-other industrial use. The disappointed person is going to be you, when the local AHJ shuts you-down.

If you think that changing zoning is what you want to try to do, or to file for a variance, you need a professional well-known to the local government to guide you through the process. Sometimes the best advice you can get is to go to a veteran local professional like a P.E., architect, or planning firm, and to be told, "yes, you can try, but I/we do not expect a positive outcome." Then you're out only the initial consultation fee. For example in my last jurisdiction, it was a minimum $3000 fee to apply for a variance to zoning regulations, no guarantee on the outcome, and that was over ten years-ago. I processed many variance requests during my time in the workplace.

If you think changing zoning is what you want to try, you need a planning business to do the work. The very first thing you should do (public knowledge & access) would be to consult the future land use plan (FLUP) designation for this parcel. If the FLUP designation isn't in-agreement with what you want to do (the potential re-zoning), my advice is to forget-it, immediately. The federal government requires metro areas to have FLUP's in-place and to follow them. Zoning reg's are a more-specific part of land-use planning, and 'spot-zoning' isn't usually-allowed, where incompatible zoning districts are in-proximity to one-another. Think of a junkyard next-to a high-rise residential development for an extreme (and very unlikely) situation of this.

The prior comments about using someone local to guide you is a solid piece of advice. Look at past members of things like the local development board, records of who's building what in the community (what firms or professionals like P.E.'s, or architects, or development/planning firms) and contact them. Many will probably tell you that the scope of your project is not in-agreement with their business model, that's OK, don't take it personally. Eventually you will find someone competent who will be able to provide you with guidance, if that's what you choose to do. I have gone to the jurisdiction and asked to speak with a professional in the discipline and asked them for referrals, though there may be regulations against that, you may need to try doing it through an intermediary who is known to the government employee. Researching who's getting permits for what-type of work through the public access 'government in the sunshine' laws is helpful. The municipality where I reside puts submitted plans available for public review at the city hall /county library branch.

Bottom line, let a qualified design professional guide you if you decide to try for something involved with zoning variances or re-zoning.

Oh, I forgot, the jurisdiction also treated each issue that you 'sought relief' from, in the variance application as a separate issue, which can get very expensive! So if you wanted three variances, one for square footage, one for distance separation, and one for use, three separate fees! Also, you may be granted none, one, two, or all-three, and getting one but not-another may not allow you to develop your parcel as you wished. In the variance process, it's not-uncommon for the committee to impose restrictions on your approved plan, such-as tying two parcels together so they may never be separated, or restricting specific use. It's not an easy process, and that's why you need professional guidance.

 

[a52-830]

since it is not clear if you are really inside denver, or 100 miles away, i would suggest the following:

you have a design. get some elevations (images of what the side and front would look like), and a plot plan with the location of the proposed structure, all the buildings on your parcel, and all the close buildings on the "line of sight" (to your project) adjoining parcels.

talk to those neighbors. most likely, they dont care, and will be good if you have approached them. if not, you might as well stop, because they will lilkey be able to derail you with the ZBA (zoning board of appeals).

if you are good to this point, schedule a slot at the next ZBA meeting. usually they will be fine with a consultation meeting. bring everything you have, including the names of any contractors you have lined up. local contractors often grease the wheels, since the board will be more comfortable that the locals won't screw around, since they want to continue working in the area.

dont forget things like images taken from the street showing the location, so they have a feel for how visible it will be. depending on their stickiness, floating a red ballon at the height of the peak, and taking some images from the road, might resolve some questions about visibility.

in the end, be pleasant. they are much more likely to help you if you are.

around here, these are volunteer boards. people dont invest the considerable time required because they are bored, they do it because they have a large interest, or an agenda. this can lead to something as simple as "fits in the surrounding area" to "we dont approve anything because exceptions become precedents".

if all else fails, consider building two buildings on two slabs, with 6' double door doorways facing each other with substantial roof overhang. after everything is done, and your case is closed. connect it with a freestanding covering. later, when it is time to sell, you can easily remove the "tunnel", and even leave it in the garage part for the next owner to decide if they want to put it back.

good luck.

 

[motoidiot]

I too had a blow dealt to my dreams when a visit to the planning department revealed that in my particular zoning I am limited to 500 sq. ft. and no more than 15' in total height.
This was particularly demoralizing as one of the factors when purchasing our home was that I had observed several large "accessory buildings" in our development and (wrongly) assumed that I would be permitted to do the same.

I recently measured out a few of the existing buildings and found them to be between 560 sq. ft. on the small end and up to 1200 sq. ft. on the large end. Next steps will be to reach out to those homeowners and see what steps they had to take. Hoping that perhaps I can lobby for a variance using these structures as a precedent. We shall see...

Good luck with your build!

 

[aka Larry]

Bottom line, let a qualified design professional guide you if you decide to try for something involved with zoning variances or re-zoning.

Having worked with a civil firm for 15 years that does this type stuff all the time, I agree 100%.

Local PE's know the local officials, and can probably tell you in 5 minutes whether or not your request has a chance of being approved. If the answer is no, you're likely to piss away a bunch of time and money finding out the local PE was right.

That said, a lot of codes seem to have no common sense backing. Like in your case, you can have two 1000 SF buildings, but not a single 2000 SF one? The added 2,000 SF of impervious area is the same.