Steel Beam Span Lengths

[schwalby]

I want to hear how long of a span people have done on here for their garages, also a rough cost.

I am trying to figure out if I can get away with one or no columns. Ultimately I will use a structural engineer to calculate everything I am just trying to get an idea for now.


*note for the search tool nazis I did use search on here and googled my brains out before creating this thread.

 

[cal67ss396]

I think more information will be needed prior to anyone making any suggestions. Here are some that I can think of off the top of my head.

1. What is the span distance?
2. Is this going to be primarily used for beefing up a wall or are you going to be hanging stuff from it (example chain fall, conduit or water lines, etc..)?
3. Do you know what load would be imposed on the beam?
4. Are you restricted on the height of beam you can install?
5. How do you intend to bear the beam? Will it be resting on top of a wood framed wall or will it be mounting to the face of a masonry wall?

 

[schwalby]

I was just trying to get a rough idea on what people have used and costs. Don’t mind giving more info though for my particular situation. My situation will be an unusual structure. I will try to do a sketch and post it up by tomorrow to better explain the setup. Maybe the below info will help for now though.

I think more information will be needed prior to anyone making any suggestions. Here are some that I can think of off the top of my head.

1. What is the span distance? 34' - 44'
2. Is this going to be primarily used for beefing up a wall or are you going to be hanging stuff from it (example chain fall, conduit or water lines, etc..)? This is the tricky one. It will be supporting a second floor, but part of the load will be taken by a truss and other parts by another beam on the other side that will be supported about ever 20' or so
3. Do you know what load would be imposed on the beam? It would be a total guess, see above
4. Are you restricted on the height of beam you can install? Not really, it will be buried in the ceiling and I will just adjust wall thickness that will be above it
5. How do you intend to bear the beam? Will it be resting on top of a wood framed wall or will it be mounting to the face of a masonry wall? Best method. It can be wood construction, concrete column, concrete block column. I would prefer to keep the column as narrow as possible so as little of it will protrude from the wall.

 

[bczygan]

You can do anything. Size and material of structural member and cost of same depends on exact layout, zoning, loads etc. Draw up what you intend to do with dimensions and it can be calculated and priced.

 

[blkhonda1991]

34'-44' span is going to be a pretty big beam you'll most likely need columns with footings at the beam ends

 

[theoldwizard1]

One thing an engineer will ask is it is a "live" load (people walking) or just static.

 

[iagsxr]

My local supplier was .65/lb. when I checked a couple months ago.

Contacted my local lumberyard as to how to figure dead load on an existing building. As the building we were talking about is non-standard construction(old barn) they had no idea.

Snow load and whatnot depends on your location.

Downloaded BeamBoy but couldn't get it to run. My computer has some lingering issues from a crash this winter.

I've gotten busy with other things, so this is way on the backburner. From what I did do guessing around a 30 lb/ft beam to span 32' in my application.

 

[wssix99]

You can do a clear steel beam 30-50 feet long but it will be so deep that it will cut the space in two and so expensive that you'll go in to cardiac arrest.

Are you sure you need a beam to go that length? It sounds like you are doing new construction. If so, you may be able to come up with a design that won't require a central support beam. (Engineered floor trusses, etc.)

 

[Ironcrow]

I spanned 26 feet with a W16-50 beam. It is supported on both ends by masonry wall. The floor above is 2 bedrooms and attic storage above that. Beam cost was $1800

 

[blkhonda1991]

are you going to post the sketch you were talking about?

 

[darkk]

In my garage addition I spanned 30 feet with a lam-beam. 7" x 24" x 30' cost me around $1700. Full second floor with living space

 

[schwalby]

are you going to post the sketch you were talking about?

I hope these help. I can draw sprinkler valves and fittings all day long that look dead on but been a long time since I have done a structure.

Basically this shows the two outside walls, rest of the green is the floor levels, blue is vertical walls to show possible load transfer points, red are columns I am fine with having in place.

The beam in question would run the length of the building and supported by the tall column on the right side. The beam would also be supported at both end walls.

Hope these PDFs make sense. I can print more from different angles and also add more info if wanted.

 

[blkhonda1991]

not sure i really understand those drawings, but what are the various floor levels about?

 

[schwalby]

not sure i really understand those drawings, but what are the various floor levels about?

Kind of figured they wouldn't be too easy to understand. I attached a ROUGH floor plan and two sections, they may help. But to answer your question directly the left bay is 10', center bay is 18' and right bay is 14'. Keep in mind the center and right bay may change in elevation depending on beam depths and ceiling heights on the second floor.

Sorry these are so rough, I was planning on cleaning them up a lot before posting on here. This beam question has just gotten a lot more complex than I thought it would. Was just looking for rough number on what has been done.

Always willing to answer questions though since it is all a big help.

EDIT: want to make a note that a lot of the ceiling heights upstairs will be adjusted to get the total height of the building lower.

 

[jwith68]

You are searching for structural steel beam span tables. Here's a link to one for residential applications:

http://www.customstud.com/pdfs/tech_bulletins/3_Loadspan.pdf

Do some more searching if this one doesn't have what you need. Should be published or approved by AISI.

 

[bczygan]

This is an exercise in futility. First, what is your zoning? What is your lot layout? Do you have a mortgage survey? We can get to beam design, but it is way down the road. Plus, all the spaces you are showing in the attic space leave no room for trusses. You are going at this *** backwards. What functions do you want to accommodate? What is your budget? If zoning requirements can't be met, you are wasting your time, and ours. So, what's the zoning and zoning requirements?

Bill
Architectural Designer

Kind of figured they wouldn't be too easy to understand. I attached a ROUGH floor plan and two sections, they may help. But to answer your question directly the left bay is 10', center bay is 18' and right bay is 14'. Keep in mind the center and right bay may change in elevation depending on beam depths and ceiling heights on the second floor.

Sorry these are so rough, I was planning on cleaning them up a lot before posting on here. This beam question has just gotten a lot more complex than I thought it would. Was just looking for rough number on what has been done.

Always willing to answer questions though since it is all a big help.

EDIT: want to make a note that a lot of the ceiling heights upstairs will be adjusted to get the total height of the building lower.

 

[schwalby]

You are searching for structural steel beam span tables. Here's a link to one for residential applications:

http://www.customstud.com/pdfs/tech_bulletins/3_Loadspan.pdf

Do some more searching if this one doesn't have what you need. Should be published or approved by AISI.

I found that site before but it stops at 24'. I know they can longer so I was hoping someone here has done a beam closer to my length and would also have some cost information on it.

 

[schwalby]

This is an exercise in futility. First, what is your zoning? What is your lot layout? Do you have a mortgage survey? We can get to beam design, but it is way down the road. Plus, all the spaces you are showing in the attic space leave no room for trusses. You are going at this *** backwards. What functions do you want to accommodate? What is your budget? If zoning requirements can't be met, you are wasting your time, and ours. So, what's the zoning and zoning requirements?

Bill
Architectural Designer

I am going to respectfully disagree. If you re-read my original post you will see I was only looking for lengths and cost of beams that others have used. The topic grew from there and since people were asking I answered the best I could and did say that the design was still in the very early stages of design.

I know zoning, lot size, building codes and so on will affect the design. I have been involved in the construction industry for some time now so I know all the other factors that are involved and how they affect the design. This also gives me insight to what can be built and how, the rough design I posted can be built without trusses. Wooden I beams can be used to span the 17’ of the right bay, the roof can be stick built, will just need to make sure there are baring walls supporting it where needed. I don’t expect this to be the cheapest way or easiest way to build something but doesn’t mean it can’t be done.

 

[bczygan]

OK,
If all you want is a beam size and you've done all the other calculations and know the loads, simply do a search on Google and find a beam calc program and find out the beam size, then price it. Being in construction you must know that what beams others have used has no bearing on the size you need because your spans and loads are different. What are your spans and loads?

Bill

I am going to respectfully disagree. If you re-read my original post you will see I was only looking for lengths and cost of beams that others have used. The topic grew from there and since people were asking I answered the best I could and did say that the design was still in the very early stages of design.

I know zoning, lot size, building codes and so on will affect the design. I have been involved in the construction industry for some time now so I know all the other factors that are involved and how they affect the design. This also gives me insight to what can be built and how, the rough design I posted can be built without trusses. Wooden I beams can be used to span the 17’ of the right bay, the roof can be stick built, will just need to make sure there are baring walls supporting it where needed. I don’t expect this to be the cheapest way or easiest way to build something but doesn’t mean it can’t be done.

 

[csp]

I am going to respectfully disagree. If you re-read my original post you will see I was only looking for lengths and cost of beams that others have used.

Who cares what others have used? The length and cost is going to depend on the variables presented in your situation, not that of the guy down the street or across the country.

 

[schwalby]

OK,
If all you want is a beam size and you've done all the other calculations and know the loads, simply do a search on Google and find a beam calc program and find out the beam size, then price it. What are your loads?

Bill

Not far enough along to price it out. I haven't decided where I want my interior walls on the second floor or how many columns I am going to want / not want, all of which will factor into point loads which in this design is going to be a big factor.

Again this thread was to get a ball park idea on beam costs and sizes. This information will give me a real rough idea on how many columns I am going to need. So when I do have a structural engineer look at it I will already know how many columns I want and won't be changing things 15 times on him. He can then size all the beams for me and price it out.

 

[schwalby]

Who cares what others have used? The length and cost is going to depend on the variables presented in your situation, not that of the guy down the street or across the country.

Say someone on here did a 35' span with a living space above, they give beam size (width, depth) and cost. I now have a rough idea what sizes and costs I will be dealing with. Will mine differ yes but having that informatoin is a good starting point to base my design.

 

[schwalby]

To bczygan and csp if you think what I am asking is dumb and pointless then just don't read this thread or comment in it.

 

[buening]

schwalby, this is what I do daily. Honestly, one person's setup may be twice the beam size as another person depending on if the beam is supporting a loft, roof, trusses, etc. I apologize if I missed it, but the loads on this beam is what is really needed in order to determine beam size (and clearance issues as well).

Typically on a commercial setting, you have steel joists supporting the roof system. Those joists are then supported by the steel beam. The column/beam spacing is needed to determine what is commonly called "tributary width". For example, lets say the beam splits down a 40'x40' garage. Its common practice to assume half of each span's loads will be applied to the walls and the remainder to the beam. Therefore, the tributary width for the walls would be 20' and the tributary width for the center beam would be 40' (20' each side). Without this width and what this beam will be supporting, I cannot give a rough guess. I will say that for roadway bridges in the 50' span, we typically use a W24 or W27 (24" or 27" tall I-beam) and they are typically 80-150 pounds per linear feet. Roadway bridges obviously have more load to be designed for, but they also only have about 6-8' of tributary width.

Something like this is a bit time consuming for an engineer to exactly nail down exact loading, but with a bit more info I can use judgement to give you a rough ballpark.

 

[buening]

From what I can tell (please confirm), the beam is supporting the inner edge of the right bay with the 14' ceiling and is running almost the entire length of the 60' garage? I almost need a Section C-C just in front of the beam to show the 2nd floor transition locations. No isometric drawings please

Also, what is supporting the left bay inner wall shown in Section A-A and B-B? I believe those are columns shown in the plan view which likely have a wood beam with smaller spans?


To keep things simple, lets neglect the Section A-A and assume the entire garage is like Section B-B. Assuming the left bay is fully supported with columns and its own beam, the tributary width of your beam in question is 14'-4" +/-. Using 40psf Live Loading (assumes your second floor will be used as dwelling/storage/etc) and 10psf dead load (not including beam self weight), the factored load per square foot of tributary area is 1.2*DL +1.6*LL = 76psf. Total load per linear foot of beam is trib area * PSF load = 14.33*76 = 1089.3plf. Assuming a 60' span, the bending moment is load*span^2/8 = 1089.3*60^2/8 = 490,189 lb-ft. Assuming 50ksi steel is use, you'll need a beam with an S = 117.6 in^3. The S is the section modulus, commonly used to look up beam sizes in a steel manual. Once beam size is determined, the dead load of the beam will need entered into the above equations to determine the revised section modulus. Examples of beams that may work are (must be engineered and is only a rough estimate!!!): W12x96, W14x90x W16x77, W18x76, W21x62, or W24x62. As you can see, the taller the beam the lighter the section you can use (thus reducing beam cost). For a 60' beam using the W24, you'd have 3720 pounds of steel just in the beam. This beam has 7" wide flanges that are 9/16" thick and total beam depth of 23.75". At 75cents or so a pound, you are looking at roughly $2790 just in steel and not including column or labor. To save some clearance, you could go with the W12x96 and would have 5760 pounds of steel coming in at $4320. It has 12" wide flanges that are 7/8" thick and total beam depth of 12 3/4".

Hope this helps and let me know if you have any questions.

 

[wssix99]

Have you worked with an architect on the massing of the space? It looks to me that you are trying to put in a high bay surrounded by other ancillary spaces for other uses, which drop down lower than the high bay.

This is a very expensive design. If you were to go with another layout, you'd have a much less costly design, will get rid of many of the beams, (this will reduce cost) and may even get more usable space out of the shop. Another complication is going to be the roof design. (A roof over this structure is going to be expensive.)

If you shuffle the work spaces around, go with another roof design, (think a shed roof instead of a peaked roof, etc.) or consider a split level arrangement, (with one workspace in a dug-out basement next to the high bay) a lot of your issues may go away.

 

[schwalby]

Here is an updated sketch and I hope it will have the information you were asking about. The hatch area shown on the Ground Level is the area that would have the high ceiling. After about 35’ into the building the ceiling drops down to the 14’ height. On the upper floor drawing I am trying to show the floor elevation changes a little better. I also added the section line B tag to that level. Last night I was playing with the room layout so that is why there is the 11’-2” x 16' and 11’-2” x 20’-6” room along with the generic bathroom block inserted.

There would be a column supporting the 60' beam about 14' in from the back wall. I could do another on the front wall but trying to avoid that.

So I have the 60’ beam running the length of the building that is 16’- 8” from the right side wall and I could put a 40’ beam running perpendicular to that beam and it is 25’ – 6” off the back wall, this would create a tee more or less. Would this be of any help? Goal is to keep the ceiling at a constant height so don’t know if the beams could be bolted / welded at the intersection or I could run the 40’ beam and have the 60’ beam across the top of it. I would play with the elevations of the beams in order to get the heights I want or figure out some other way to take advantage of the beams at two elevations.

Wssix99 you are correct that this will be an expensive build but I don’t do much that isn’t, you should see my Jeep. For me I want to save money where I can but I still want to have a certain look and feel to the space.

 

[bczygan]

I'll take one last shot at this.
If what you are asking for is a price on various beam layouts, then do the layouts. Number them 1, 2, 3 etc. Make a list of the beams and other structural members needed based on the loads they support and price them. Simple. A bit of work to try the different options, but now on paper is cheaper than in the field. But you have to do the work to determine the loads reasonably well or else the answers will be so off as to be useless.
Nowhere here have you done any of this. And combined with the really bad design work, it leads me to think you aren't going through the design process in the correct way. You say you're in construction, but nothing you've shown us indicates a knowledge of structure or the steps needed to design spaces. Your design work and drawings show a hodge-podge. A design should reflect the uses and functions of the spaces. It should be clear and clean and obvious. You say you've done all the design work and just need beam prices. Well do it. If you have the loads and load conditions for the different possible layouts, just call up a supplier and price them. If you don't have them, then you are putting the cart before the horse. Also, why aren't your bathrooms stacked? Why don't your upstairs walls have the support of the ones downstairs by having them directly underneath? What are these upstairs spaces anyway? Not trying to get down on you, but you exhibit all the signs of someone who doesn't know what he is doing. No crime in that. But you need to talk to some people that can guide you. We're here to help. But you have to ask for it and do half the work and work with us.

 

[wssix99]

The building as you have it drawn right now will collapse as soon as the wind blows on it. You'll need some lateral bracing, which is impossible to put in with the floor levels as you've drawn them.

Given the money you are looking to spend, the services of an experienced architect will pay dividends and are a drop in the bucket.

 

[schwalby]

I think there is a confusion as to where I am at with this design. Think back to when you just started to design your place. Probably started with a pad of paper and a pencil loosely sketching things out. That is what this is, I never said my design was complete in anyway . I know I want the following things, wide open area for the garage, bathroom and lift in the garage. I want multilevel ceiling heights to give character and also allow different tasks in different areas. I want to have a single large door in the front and off centered and not multiple doors. I want the building to resemble a barn from the outside, I want to have a living area above. I do know that the ideal setup is to have all of your wet rooms next to or on top of each other. Doesn’t mean I have to do it that way, for right now this is how I want them roughly, that can change though. I know that the varies ceiling levels will make things more complex and not using trusses will add to cost just as doing long beam spans will but if I can design this the way I want it and still eat more than just ramen noodles every day then I am happy.

Point is at this point this is a major work in progress and the point of this thread was to get an idea, a rough idea, on beam costs. I didn’t know if a 60’ beam would cost $1,500 or $10,000, with buening’s help I now know I will be in the $3,000 - $5,000 range. I could have gone to a structural engineer 3 days ago and given them what I had sketched but then I would be paying someone for the same ball park numbers, point of the forum is to get general info without paying good money right? For right now I am basing my layout on what I want and feedback from people that do the same things in their garages that I want to do in mine. Once I have a solid idea what features and what spaces I want I will then start looking at ways to tweak things to lower cost.

Hope that better helps explain where I am with this.

 

[buening]

schwalby there is much work to do with your sketches but hopefully those numbers gave you a rough idea. Keep in mind your column and footing costs for that beam could almost equal the cost of the beam. Definitely work with an architect and structural engineer once you have all of your thoughts together. They will let you know what will work and what won't, and will have suggestions on improving your plan and making it more cost efficient. I have limited capabilities in a forum format due to liability.

 

[nperkins]

Not to threadjack, but does a beam have to span the longer distance, or can you run multiple beams across the shorter distance?

I.E. I'm doing a 32x24 garage... Do I have to do a 32' beam, or can i do 2-3 24' beams?

 

[schwalby]

Keep in mind your column and footing costs for that beam could almost equal the cost of the beam.

That I did not know, very good to know. I will most certainly involve a structrual engineer once I finalize my ideas better.

Not to threadjack, but does a beam have to span the longer distance, or can you run multiple beams across the shorter distance?

I.E. I'm doing a 32x24 garage... Do I have to do a 32' beam, or can i do 2-3 24' beams?

HIJACKER!!!!!!!! Just kidding

 

[wssix99]

Schwalby - Architects call the exercise you are going through "massing." I'd recommend you start working with one now - before you start your plans.

Even though my wife is a contractor and I an engineer, we still engaged 2 architects to help us with the activity for a new house. (and my attached garage/man cave) Dollar for dollar, working with the architects on massing saved us the most pain/money. The work is purely thinking/conceptual with some sketching. For a custom house, the activity (for two architects) cost us about $2K for a whole house and garage - but it saved us tens of thousands of dollars. The brought a lot of good ideas to the table, know what fits in the neighborhood, and know what the city will and will not allow. (They will also know what people are doing in the area with regard to total cost of clear spans and where the economies of scale stop/start.)

On top of the conceptual work, the time we spent massing go the architects involved in the design and our true requirements and saved us time going to detailed design because they didn't have to come up to speed and work with us on any big issues that we brought to the table with our own design.

 

[bczygan]

I've been an Architectural Designer for 40 years. And yes, the design process involves creating and identifying masses. But it starts long before that by defining the parameters you have to work within. First among these are zoning and building department issues, easements, HOA rules and deed restrictions. It's no use designing a 2000 SF 2 story accessory building if zoning for your site will not allow it. So first find out all the things zoning will let you do, and also what it prohibits. First, find out what the zoning classification is for your particular lot. Then go to the zoning rules and look up that classification and see what uses are allowed in that zoning. For residential uses the section on accessory buildings will be of interest. This will tell you the maximum allowed size and height and also where height is measure to. Sometimes it is to the peak of the roof, sometimes to the midpoint of the roof slope. You will find where the accessory building can be placed. Along with the uses will be height and area restrictions, usually in a chart showing what is required for each zoning. Here you will find minimum sizes for a residence, required front, side and rear yard setback lines, Maximum allowed lot coverage percentages and maximum allowed rear yard coverages. There may be minimum distances allowed between accessory buildings and/or between them and the primary structure. There may be definitions of permanent or temporary structures and whether you need a permit for same. There may be a maximum size for a building for which no permit is required. Next thing to check is easements. Utility easements are the most common and usually run along property lines, but can occur anywhere on your site. Check your plot plan or mortgage survey or regular survey for these, they can also run right across a lot. Look for overhead lines for a clue. Easements may also exist to allow a neighbor access across your lot. More to come........

 

[bczygan]

OK,
Another thing to do is to look for underground utilities like sewer and water mains and other pipelines and underground work. Call your local utilities and check where they run near your property. Call MISS DIG and have them stake the utilities on, and in the vicinity of your lot. Look at your house and try to determine the location and direction of Gas, Water, Sewer and even underground Electrical lines. Look for locations of Septic tanks and drain fields and wells (In use and abandoned). After checking for utility and other easements you need to know if there is a homeowners association and look at their rules and restrictions. Their restrictions are typically more stringent than government rules. Next up is deed restrictions. Get a copy of your deed, mortgage survey, survey and/or property legal description. These will have information not available elsewhere including the measurements of existing structures on the site and even distances to adjacent buildings. Deeds may show easements your neighbors have over your property. The last bit of information you will need is information about the subject property and adjacent properties concerning grades, landscaping, architectural styles and views. You can only get this information by spending some time on the site and in the neighborhood.
Once you have all this information in hand and have studied it, you are ready to plan your project. All of the above information will restrict, guide, inform and require you to design your project within certain parameters. This actually makes it easier for you by narrowing your focus to what can and should be done.
At this point you need to start a list of functions. More to come.....

 

[bczygan]

Notice that nothing has been said about the structure you intend to build yet. You can't know what it is going to be until you know what it will do. Functions help define that. Start by thinking of spaces. Say to yourself "I need a space to park a car". It needs to be big enough for my Hummer. That means it has to be so big with a door so high. Start a list of spaces related to functions. I need a space to operate a lathe. I need a space to store steel for the lathe. Etc. Etc. Next start arranging the relationships between spaces. A good way to do this is to draw each space to scale on pieces of paper and start taping them down in the proper relationship to each other. Steel storage near an entrance door but also near the machines that use it. etc. etc. Don't be afraid to relate uses and functions to existing structures and other parts of your lot. The rules and restrictions from above will constrain you, but be bold and imaginative working out solutions within those rules.
Only after you have all the spaces and their relationships defined in 3 dimensions are you ready to find a structure that will accommodate them.

 

[bczygan]

You now have the masses and functions and relationships in 3 dimensions. The only thing left to do is decide on an elevation for the floor and create a structure to house the spaces appropriately. As far as grade is concerned, higher is generally better. This creates positive drainage. But you must also accommodate other structures and avoid having to bring massive amounts of fill in. Most sites will require some engineered fill to replace organic material that must be removed. Proper removal, replacement, compaction and drainage are critical to provide a proper base for paving both inside and outside the structure.
All the above planning has defined the size and location of doors and probable location of windows. The largest spaces tell you what the largest spans are for beams and trusses. The zoning and building requirements will tell you the snow and wind loads to accommodate. Span tables for steel or wood trusses and beams will give you the most economical solution for the loads and spans you have. Some places dimensional lumber will be the best choice, like headers over windows and man doors and fairly short span floor joists and ceiling joists. LVL's will be the choice for longer span headers like over garage doors. Steel will be the choice for longer spans with higher loads. General design goals are to keep it simple and obvious. If the design starts to seem complicated and contrived, step back and start anew. Walk through your design doing all the things you intend to do in it and outside of it. Consider what it looks like from every angle on and off your property and consider every view you have from within it. Eventually your design will "Gel". It will be the best set of solutions to the set of needs and desires you started out with, constrained within the realities of site, surroundings, budget and rules.

The point of this series of posts is to encourage all of you to design for yourselves. It takes no special skills, but it does require a methodical step by step process that proceeds in a certain order. So don't pick cookie cutter plans and plop them down on your site. Think about all the parameters and you will get a much better result.

Bill
Designer in Detroit

 

[rburke65]

Bill, thank you for this. Very informative. Thanks for taking the time to post this.

 

[Sriracha Me]

Bill, nice intro to architecture 101 there!