Yotaforce
Well-known member
I was wondering how most people are running electrical lines in their steel buildings. Steel emt conduit? Plastic? Any guidance would be appreciated.
Steel building electrical
- Thread starter Yotaforce
- Start date
MXtras
Well-known member
I think you will find EMT to be a very common solution. It's durable and relatively easy to work with.
Scott
Scott
Aceman
Well-known member
Emt is always what we use.
Really, the best way is pvc under the slab stubbed up in key locations, looks a lot cleaner.
Really, the best way is pvc under the slab stubbed up in key locations, looks a lot cleaner.
Charles (in GA)
Well-known member
Did mine with EMT. Hopefully will run conduits for the lighting this winter. 12 metal halide 400 watt low bay fixtures with acrylic reflectors. Receptacles and air compressor, etc., were finished about four years ago, just waiting on a manlift for the lighting work.
Charles
Charles
Use ridgid metal conduit 90s coming out of the slab then convert to emt or you could use MC cable, but it looks sloppy.
PVC in the slab is easy and fast tape your ends to keep debris out of conduit and run apiece of conduit up a couple feet to keep them plumb secure with tie wire, and be there during the pour to watch for breaks and to keep people from tromping on your work.
If you know where specific equipment will be located you can run a conduit to each location.
Then one to each wall for general use plugs and one to each switch location for lights.
If you don't know run conduit for plugs and lights and one to each wall for equip.
If your slab is poured disregard this post.
Yes, my slab is done and the framework is up. Doing the roof and wall sheeting and insulation now. Originally planned on emt throughout. I did work for a commercial electric contractor years back. Learned how to bend emt with a hand bender and snake wire. It's been a long time, but I feel confident I can manage it. The best part is that I am building this whole shop by myself (with the exception of having the concrete finished by professionals). I got my building in on Friday evening, and with just a few friends helping me on Sat., I allready have a third of the roof on and only have to finish the wall sheeting before beginning electrical. I'll have new pics up on my build thread soon (30x40x12 building). Thanks guys.
kxmotox247
Well-known member
I may have some pictures that will help you out. I am in the process of having a pole barn errected. I ran all of my electrical on the 1st girt board up on the inside of the building. The wiring is hidden in the walls and the only surface mounted electrical will be the outlet and switch boxes.
I can probably post some pictures if that would help. The interior wall is just plain white ribbed steel. The builders came today and insulated. They plan to finish the interior soon.
I can probably post some pictures if that would help. The interior wall is just plain white ribbed steel. The builders came today and insulated. They plan to finish the interior soon.
daddylama
Well-known member
worked on a metal building years ago, that the building was the common... a single cloth covered hot ran from outlet to outlet, on each wall. the common was a short wire that jumped from the outlet to a screw on the building's frame.
the guy said every time it rained he'd blow a fuse or two... and some of the plugs only read ~90 volts... unless you kick the wall a few times, then they'd either start working, or a fuse would go.
swear he had the biggest bucket of blown fuses that i'd ever seen in my life. he must have spent more $ on fuses than it cost to wire the place properly. no friggin' idea HOW he used that building as a workshop for 30 years like that (he did stained glass and pottery)
we put steel emt in the place. million times better
the guy said every time it rained he'd blow a fuse or two... and some of the plugs only read ~90 volts... unless you kick the wall a few times, then they'd either start working, or a fuse would go.
swear he had the biggest bucket of blown fuses that i'd ever seen in my life. he must have spent more $ on fuses than it cost to wire the place properly. no friggin' idea HOW he used that building as a workshop for 30 years like that (he did stained glass and pottery)
we put steel emt in the place. million times better
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kxmotox247
Well-known member
Picture removed - contact your local electrician for code requirements in your area. I don't want to give anyone bad advice.
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kxmotox247
Well-known member
There is no electrical sign-off. The only inspection is the layout on the property.
kxmotox247
Well-known member
I have a little plastic bushing that slides over the wires and protects them from the edge of the tin. The boxes are surface mounted.
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Charles (in GA)
Well-known member
Unless that closet is deeper than it looks in the pic, that still would most likely be a code violation (and could cause you insurance problems later if there were a claim for fire, etc).
Code says the working area must be 30 inches wide (but doesn't have to be centered on the panel, just that the panel be fully withing the 30 inch width, 6-1/2 ft high, and 36 inches deep from the face of the panel to the inside of the closed door, opposing wall, etc.
Basically the panel has to have a completely clear, floor to 6-1/2 foot high, 30" wide, 36" deep area, nothing obstructing that area. I think a door that closes and latches shut would be considered an obstruction.
NEC 110.26 discusses this.
Charles
Yeah, my employer gets nailed on that one every time the fire inspectors come around. People park floor machines, brooms, boxes, etc., in front of the panels.
The panels all have signs on them stating the 36" clear space requirement, but they get ignored.
kxmotox247
Well-known member
Very interesting.... I've had two different electricians there at the site and niether one mentioned anything about that.
I'll look up the NEC code to see what it says.... doesn't look good based on what you guys are saying.
Thanks!
I'll look up the NEC code to see what it says.... doesn't look good based on what you guys are saying.
Thanks!
I think it's OK.
NEC 110.26(A) (1)
"Distances shall be measured from exposed live parts or from the enclosure or opening if the live parts are enclosed."
So the 36" depth measurement with the door open is OK. IMHO
NEC 110.26(E)
Headroom. the minimum headroom of working spaces about service equipment, switchboards, panelboards, or motor control centers shall be 61/2'.
If you door is 61/2' you are OK.IMHO
The door prevents obstructions to the panel.
NEC 110.26(A) (1)
"Distances shall be measured from exposed live parts or from the enclosure or opening if the live parts are enclosed."
So the 36" depth measurement with the door open is OK. IMHO
NEC 110.26(E)
Headroom. the minimum headroom of working spaces about service equipment, switchboards, panelboards, or motor control centers shall be 61/2'.
If you door is 61/2' you are OK.IMHO
The door prevents obstructions to the panel.
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In this case, what is enclosing the live parts? The deadfront on the service panel is. The panel is the enclosure, so I read it as the measurement would be from the front of the panel.
It might come down to a judgment call by an inspector, I have seen widely varying interpretations from different inspectors, some of which seem to be determined by the phase of the moon or the season.
If it was a judgment call it would be one of bad judgment
It's clearly not allowed like it's constructed, thats why I my suggestion of removing the door before an inspection Luckily the location seems to be exempt from inspection so....William....
kxmotox247
Well-known member
I don't believe that it's "clearly not allowed" based on the way the regulation reads. The door is not a permanent obstruction and when opened, it allows sufficient access based on the code requirements. You'd have to have the door open to actually expose live electrical components and there is ample room in that case.
I guess worst case scenario I cold remove the door and frame inward at the jambs. But I'm not going to do that if I don't have to.
I guess worst case scenario I cold remove the door and frame inward at the jambs. But I'm not going to do that if I don't have to.
Charles (in GA)
Well-known member
The reference I use for code interpretation is The Illustrated Guide to the National Electric Code by Charles R. Miller. Mr. Miller shows that a door that is OPENED and when open blocks a panelboard, is OK, because the door can be shut and the panel is then accessible, as that is not the "normal" position of the door, however all other information regarding accessibility of panelboard and equipment shows a fully open, unobstructed 36". I take his interpretation to mean that if the closet were 36" from the inside of the closed door to the face of the panelboard, then it would be OK.
Of course, the point will only come up, as I noted, if there is a fire and resulting fire department and insurance investigation, so, each to their own.
I make no claim to be an electrician, but have read and read on the code and all references I can, as I have done a fair amount of my own electrical work.
At work, we have wide hallways, and they have panelboards all along them, each panelboard is protected by 8" diameter concrete filled steel posts set into the floor, that are 36" (or more, depending on the voltage) away from the front of the panels, to protect them from forklifts and other hallway traffic. Each panel is labeled with the "keep clear for *** inches, per NEC and OSHA" signs. The area of the floor that must stay clear is painted yellow also.
Charles
Of course, the point will only come up, as I noted, if there is a fire and resulting fire department and insurance investigation, so, each to their own.
I make no claim to be an electrician, but have read and read on the code and all references I can, as I have done a fair amount of my own electrical work.
At work, we have wide hallways, and they have panelboards all along them, each panelboard is protected by 8" diameter concrete filled steel posts set into the floor, that are 36" (or more, depending on the voltage) away from the front of the panels, to protect them from forklifts and other hallway traffic. Each panel is labeled with the "keep clear for *** inches, per NEC and OSHA" signs. The area of the floor that must stay clear is painted yellow also.
Charles
Aceman
Well-known member
Honestly, I think I'd be more concerned with romex running along the tops of the furring strips than the working clearances on the panel. One screw in the wrong spot and you're done. 300.4(D)
Nec 100 Definitions
I. General
Accessible (as applied to equipment). Admitting close approach; not guarded by locked doors, elevation, or other effective means.
110.26 Spaces About Electrical Equipment.
Sufficient access and working space shall be provided and maintained about all electrical equipment to permit ready and safe operation and maintenance of such equipment. Enclosures housing electrical apparatus that are controlled by lock and key shall be considered accessible to quailified persons.
I. General
Accessible (as applied to equipment). Admitting close approach; not guarded by locked doors, elevation, or other effective means.
110.26 Spaces About Electrical Equipment.
Sufficient access and working space shall be provided and maintained about all electrical equipment to permit ready and safe operation and maintenance of such equipment. Enclosures housing electrical apparatus that are controlled by lock and key shall be considered accessible to quailified persons.
Ign
Well-known member
Another vote for EMT. It's maybe a bit more work up front but it's awesome for ability to modify it later. I'm always adding receptacles as I find I need them, or just as I move equipment along the wall.