steel building insulation

[that-guy]

I have spent countless hours researching what is the best insulation for the steel building i am having put up. double bubble vs. fiber glass vs. foil backed foam, etc etc etc...

i reached out to the steel building company and i feel like they hit me pretty high, double bubble with vapor barrier for $3812, and 2 inch fiberglass for $5337, and that would be for installing it at the same time as construction.

any and all input you guys can provide would be great

30'x41'x12'

 

[matt_i]

4 inch fiberglass would be good, all done when you finish construction, surely it has to be designed into the panels so it will fit correctly.

You can always spray foam.

I don't regard double-bubble as insulation. Just something shiny to look at.

 

[readhead]

I'm guessing that you are looking at a tube steel style building. Most of those companies don't want to deal with insulation so they quote very high for insulation.
Double bubble is worthless and will fail fairly quickly. I would recommend fiberglass blanket insulation but I doubt that the installers would do a very good job.
If you decide to insulate after the fact a thermal break tape should be installed on the framing before the sheeting goes up. If that is not done you will get condensation on the frame even after you insulate.
It would be helpful if your location is in your profile.

 

[welder57]

DON'T USE SPRAY FOAM, will void warranty on panels and will rust. Use fiberglass insulation with a vinyl backing before putting panels on. Double bubble is like no insulation at all. Contact Bay Insulation, Thermall Insulation or Silvercote Insulation for insulation. I would go with VRR type- 6" on the roof, 4" on the walls.

 

[readhead]

By the way, just for perspective, I have a quote for 4" FG insulation for a 24x40x18 building for $2,011 and install is $960.

 

[welder57]

Where are you located? Make a differents.

 

[that-guy]

I live in Northern Virginia

It sounds like what they have to offer is not ideal and again, high priced, so it sounds like that is not the way to go.

what i am looking for is something that i can install myself after the fact so that i don't have to pay for their installation labor

 

[that-guy]

would these be ideal for insulating the building? i have seen where some attach them to the steel walls with liquid nails, is that my best bet?

https://www.lowes.com/pd/Common-1-i...ded-Polystyrene-Foam-Board-Insulation/3365576

is 1" enough or should i go with 2"?

with an HVAC system that is properly sized for the building, will this do anything for the moisture problems that most people have with a steel building?

if i put walls up in the future, will i need to fill the 1.5-0.5" (2.50 square tubing) void between the foam and the OSB wall with standard bat-insulation? will the batting suffer from soaking in moisture stuck between the two?

 

[nadogail]

Fiberglass matts with fire retardant facing attached to studs glued to the walls and ceilings.

Ships have been insulated this way for years.

 

[joe_padavano]

DON'T USE SPRAY FOAM, will void warranty on panels and will rust.

I spray foamed my metal building about ten years ago. No rust whatsoever. I did it myself using the two-part kits. No issues at all. And if the foam is properly adhered to the metal, there is no condensation on the backside of the metal and thus no rust. The spray foam has the added benefit of sealing any small gaps at the fasteners. FYI, I'm also in NoVA - Loudoun County to be exact.

 

[My Old Tools]

I went with 4" fiberglass plastic backed installed before the panels went on. Then after completion they added 8" fiberglass to the roof with strapping. My building is 30x40x12 with a 6/12 pitch roof, 22 feet tall. It's easy to heat and cool. Location is east Texas, hot and humid. Mild winters. My builder discourages foam. It really wasn't needed here based on my experience.

 

[mustangcrazy77]

If you live in the south or a high humidity area, foil backed bubble insulation works great to prevent it raining inside your building. It's both a vapor barrier and provides just enough of a thermal break. It's also very cheap. $3812 is a ripoff though. I did my entire roof for a few hundred dollars.

With that said, if I were to fully insulate....I would do 2" of closed cell everywhere and then finish with your insulation flavor of the week (open cell, fiberglass, rockwool etc.). The 2" closed is going to seal up the building TIGHT. Air infiltration is enemy number one. It's also going to provide an excellent vapor barrier. Once you have those under control, insulation becomes much easier.

Most metal manufacturers have no issues with closed cell sprayed directly to metal. If applied correctly, the metal will not rust. They will however seal up your roof so tight that it will make it difficult to tell if you have a leak. If you go spray foam, I'd wait until after you have a good rain or two to make sure you don't have any leaks.

 

[readhead]

Joe, how do you know that you don’t have any rust? That is like the guy who says is pole barn is fine the day before it falls down. In both cases the damage wasn’t apparent until it was to late.

 

[karoc]

What I learned about spray foam is that it needs to be sprayed when the metal is warm and not cold. Since the foam is warm or hot so the metal also needs to be warm so no condensation will form hitting a cold surface. This is just what I read on internet,no first hand experience. Trying my best to find a method that is cheaper than spray foam,but prevents condensation. I don't know if the foil back ridgid foam board is the answer.My focus is on roof and condensation

 

[My Old Tools]

My building has zero condensation with normal fiberglass metal building insulation. It has a heavy plastic vapor barrier face. We're almost as humid as Houston up here in east Texas near Tyler.

 

[Toyomech]

If you use foam board I would recommend polyiso rather than EPS or polystyrene. Then seal every joint with can foam.

Spray foam itself will not rust metal. There isn't anything corrosive in the actual foam, and you need air and moisture to rust. If there is air and moisture behind the foam there is some other problem or an incorrect application. We have spray foamed enough metal buildings in 40+ years that we would have seen this left and right if it was an absolute fact. It is more likely that some applicator sprayed on an oily surface or needed a primer and the foam delaminated or had poor adhesion to begin with. Then you also need some kind of water leak to have rust. When foam is literally glued to metal there is no space for air or water.

Regarding spray foam when metal is warm or cold. We would prefer to spray on a warm surface but not due to condensation. Spray foam yield is highly affected by substrate temperature. You may get 60-70% of the yield per set of material on a cold surface. This means more raw material to deliver the same end result. When you spray on a cold metal panel or block you will see almost no rise on the first pass because the heat is sucked right out of the foam. Usually you compensate by a quick flash to warm things up before making another pass. Spray foam reacts instantly to any presence of moisture by forming huge blisters. This reaction happens even before the foam has completely risen. In other words if there was condensation happening you would definitely know it.

 

[karoc]

My building has zero condensation with normal fiberglass metal building insulation. It has a heavy plastic vapor barrier face. We're almost as humid as Houston up here in east Texas near Tyler.

Ross would you mind if I ask you a few direct questions about your bldg,or send you a PM with questions? My place will be in Hemphill, I have heard so many different stories on what should do or shouldn't do. I don't want spend money on spray foam if there is cheaper way.

 

[My Old Tools]

feel free

 

[meathooker]

Another spray foam shop here. It’s the only way to go imo.

 

[bradpac]

Good ol fiberglass roll insulation or vinyl back fiberglass works well, put it on over the framing, then put the panels on top, and if more is wanted fill the bays from the inside.

I'm on the fence about spray foam. If you have good adhesion of the foam I wouldn't think condensation would be an issue, but once again I'm not an expert on foam.

But by far the most common in the industry is fiberglass over the framing.

 

[that-guy]

was just quoted $7K to have a crew come in and spray the whole place...no thanks. there's a discount building supply warehouse around me where i'm going to price out the 2" foam board

the price the builder quoted me to put insulation between the frame and the outer panels is far too extravagant

 

[TimbrSS]

Just for reference, I was quoted around $11k for materials on a 50 x 80 x 20 on a 1:12 pitch for R-38 roof (9" r30, 2.5" R8) (4200 sq ft.)... and R-25 walls. 8" inside the girts. 5200 sq ft.) This is for a banded liner system that hides all the purlins and girts. It's expensive, but actually a heck of a lot more bang for the buck on installed R-value, as just pinching a 4" R-13 or 6" R-19 between the secondaries and the wall panels yields only around R-6 value.

 

[that-guy]

well, i am finally getting concrete soon, which means the building will be up within the next few weeks.

I've been watching some of the professional steel building builders video's on youtube in reference to insulation and one of them swears by a system where he puts plastic sheet up between the sheetmetal wall and structure lumber as a vapor barrier, then puts up regular batt insulation, more plastic sheeting, then his OSB or drywall.

I like this idea, and seems pretty solid since i have followed alot of this guys work, however my building has an all steel construction instead of steel over a lumber structure, and at the moment, there won't be any plastic sheeting vapor barrier.

can i employ this same method on my building? is plastic sheeting on both sides of the insulation enough to stop the insulation from soaking in a bunch of moisture? my fear is trapping moisture inside the wall behind my OSB, causing the OSB to mold on the inside, and possibly my steel sheeting to rust overtime as well

Or am i better off just using 2" foam board and securing it with liquid nails to the steel sheeting?

Better yet, do i need to use furring strips on the steel wall to leave some space between the wall and foam board to allow that area to breath?

this stuff gives me a headache!!!

 

[brianh]

When I bought my 40x60 Olympia steel building kit I got the r 38 fiberglass insulation kit to go with it, I think it was 6200, came with the hangers and vapor barrier it is super easy to heat in the winter. I am in the NY Catskills.

And it stays cool in the summer been ten years I am happy with it

 

[that-guy]

When I bought my 40x60 Olympia steel building kit I got the r 38 fiberglass insulation kit to go with it, I think it was 6200, came with the hangers and vapor barrier it is super easy to heat in the winter. I am in the NY Catskills.

And it stays cool in the summer been ten years I am happy with it

with my building only having 2.5" box steel framing, i can't get such a high R rating on insulation, which is why i am asking these questions

 

[karoc]

that-guy,could you provide a link to those Utubes watching? I like to watch it also see what else is out there.

 

[Whiskey30]

Any update on your building? What insulation did you decide to go with?