Steel vs wood

[OneEyedMan]

Forgive me if this topic has been discussed recently, I didn’t find specific threads on it.

We’re pricing our options for an 80’x80’ equipment shop for our business.

Our current shop is a 38’x76’ wood building, 16’ walls and as of this year, fully insulated lean-tos on both sides. It has one by-fold door as access to the main body as well as several man doors. It was set back in to a bit of a rise in the property and has the back wall running about four foot under grade. I was not present when its layout was decided but have had the past twenty five years to wonder what a bit of grading could have changed.

We have plenty of limits to our yard layout but I have just enough room to build a retaining wall to gain 4’ of elevation on one end and build an 80’x80’ shop with generous access to the face that will have the doors and leave plenty of room for snow build up on the sides. The end with the doors will have a 26’ central door and be flanked by 12 or 14’ wide roll up doors. Shop will work on ag equipment, Semis, and light trucks. One bay gets a pit and one bay gets a four post. Middle is for big stuff.

We will be doing all our own erection work, either wood or steel, and groundwork and laying the bar for the foundations and floor. I’m going back and forth between wood and steel as I believe the cost will be quite similar. The mud will be mostly the same overall. The steel skin will be close and I intend to sheet the interior walls and ceiling with steel in either case.

The biggest variable in my mind so far is insulation. I want as much as I can afford. The steel building would make sense to spray foam which is expensive but a wood shell would be easier to use blow in or bats.

Any experience with either/both types? Other pros or cons? This project is a year out right now on the building but I can start groundwork in about three months.

 

[Youngandfree]

What's wrong with wide batts of insulation that gets installed under the sheets of a red iron building? I think a building that size would benefit from clear span steel over wood.

 

[cruzer75]

I would think steel building with insulation during the construction would be your best bet.

I have also seen some folks do there own spray on with the kits from Amazon and they were happy.

 

[kwb]

At 80x80 space a DIY kit from amazon isn't going to cut it to spray foam. Time is money.

If you are trying to free span 80' Metal is going to be the answer. If you are going to have a set of columns at 40' then either wood is still semi-practical. Columns ****. I would avoid them if I could.
Not knowing exactly what kind of work will go on I will say this if you are planning for any sort of bridge crane of any size now is the time plan for it. You say equipment shop so I have to think a crane is a part of the plan for efficient working. A lot can be done with forklifts but frankly it isn't easy to do legally. As a workspace where I am assuming employees will be working you have to be setup to follow OSHA and state workplace rules. (I know fun police but it is the reality of this) if you were doing for personal use only I wouldn't have mentioned it.

 

[finn]

I’m admittedly totally unqualified to give advice, but here’s a couple of thoughts.

First, just because you already have a piece of property with an existing building on site doesn’t mean filling, leveling, and grading on that site is your best option going forward. You might look at what you would or could do by taking a fresh look at what sort of structure and space would be best if you started fresh on a different site. You should be able to sell your existing property to fund something more ideal.

Second, if you’re going to be dealing with large equipment, you probably want a free span structure, which implies a free span steel building. That brings us back to the first point. Is the size of/ layout dictated by what fits on the property or by what fits your business needs?
I just get the feeling this is a case of “this is what fits on the property” rather than “this is what I need”. I might be wrong, though.

Third: are you experienced at designing and erecting a commercial building like this with your own crew? It’s one thing to slap up a farm or personal use shed or barn, but commercial, which is what this sounds like, has a lot more code considerations. The only people I know who have done this are ZKDiesel, and the contractor who built my garage ( and I never met ZK).

 

[My Old Tools]

My red iron building was wrapped with roll insulation when built, then I had an additional 8 inches applied (strapped) to the inside of the roof. It cuts the heat gain/loss significantly. Also with steel, you can spec stuff like a clear span loft and an overhead hoist and traveler. Done at design time it doesn't add that much cost.

 

[BobnCO]

Steel!

 

[OneEyedMan]

Steel!

It is trade show season now and I plan on getting at least two quotes.

I lease some farm ground from a man who just finished an 80x100x20. He went with a 4:12 roof which I like but makes the ceiling incredibly high. He also spray foamed the interior, says $60k was that tab. Sounded a little light for that much.

 

[theoldwizard1]

The biggest variable in my mind so far is insulation. I want as much as I can afford. The steel building would make sense to spray foam which is expensive but a wood shell would be easier to use blow in or bats.

Is it going to have a ceiling to hold blown in insulation ? How do you "blow in" insulation on walls of wood structure ? Un-faced bats will not stay in place on a wall long term.

Both wood and steel construction would benefit for 2" of spray foam first, before any other insulation !

 

[matt_i]

A pre-emptive insurance check would be good for a business. The steel framed building and "industrial" electrical work would be much more attractive to me from a flammability standpoint.

Getting your plumbing roughed-in prior to your concrete work is important...the foundation for a red iron building is not just a 4" slab, there are grade beams and monoliths hiding under there to provide appropriately sized reactions to the potential forces on the building itself.

 

[OneEyedMan]

Is it going to have a ceiling to hold blown in insulation ? How do you "blow in" insulation on walls of wood structure ? Un-faced bats will not stay in place on a wall long term.

Both wood and steel construction would benefit for 2" of spray foam first, before any other insulation !

Blow in would be for the ceiling of a wood truss building if I went that route. I have relatives with an insulation business who use a net system to cover walls then blow in loose fill for vertical, but I wasn’t planning on using that. All interior walls and ceiling are going to be sheeted in white steel no matter what I build with.

We have used the flash and batt system in other buildings and it’s worked well in wood, 2x8 rafters with 2” foam and 6” batts works well and is cheaper that just foam. I don’t know how I would attach insulation in a steel building over foam but I am looking.

 

[theoldwizard1]

We have used the flash and batt system in other buildings and it’s worked well in wood ...

Typically, the most cost effective way to insulate large, open buildings !

 

[Briandel]

Forgive me if this topic has been discussed recently, I didn’t find specific threads on it.

We’re pricing our options for an 80’x80’ equipment shop for our business.

Our current shop is a 38’x76’ wood building, 16’ walls and as of this year, fully insulated lean-tos on both sides. It has one by-fold door as access to the main body as well as several man doors. It was set back in to a bit of a rise in the property and has the back wall running about four foot under grade. I was not present when its layout was decided but have had the past twenty five years to wonder what a bit of grading could have changed.

We have plenty of limits to our yard layout but I have just enough room to build a retaining wall to gain 4’ of elevation on one end and build an 80’x80’ shop with generous access to the face that will have the doors and leave plenty of room for snow build up on the sides. The end with the doors will have a 26’ central door and be flanked by 12 or 14’ wide roll up doors. Shop will work on ag equipment, Semis, and light trucks. One bay gets a pit and one bay gets a four post. Middle is for big stuff.

We will be doing all our own erection work, either wood or steel, and groundwork and laying the bar for the foundations and floor. I’m going back and forth between wood and steel as I believe the cost will be quite similar. The mud will be mostly the same overall. The steel skin will be close and I intend to sheet the interior walls and ceiling with steel in either case.

The biggest variable in my mind so far is insulation. I want as much as I can afford. The steel building would make sense to spray foam which is expensive but a wood shell would be easier to use blow in or bats.

Any experience with either/both types? Other pros or cons? This project is a year out right now on the building but I can start groundwork in about three months.

I’ve been around both, and honestly at 80x80 the structure choice matters less than how you finish it. Steel goes up faster and stays straight, wood is more forgiving if you want to change things later. Since you’re skinning the inside with steel either way, durability ends up pretty similar day to day.

Insulation is where the real difference shows up. Spray foam in steel works great for condensation and air sealing, but it’s expensive and you live with it forever. Wood gives you more options and easier repairs, but you’ve got to stay on top of air sealing or it’ll bleed heat. For a heated equipment shop, airflow and moisture control mattered more for us than R-value on paper.

Big doors, pits, and lifts will drive more decisions than wood vs steel. If you’re doing your own erection and groundwork, I’d lean toward whichever you’re more comfortable correcting when something isn’t perfect — because something always isn’t.

 

[supratreo]

i had this same exact questions when i was building my home shop that's 34x37. i went with wood in the end but if i had the space and was building something that size i would absolutely go steel.
as far as insulation, look into the roll insulation that other have mentioned. I've worked in buildings with that and it seems to work good.
for my shop i assumed foam would be the best option until i got pricing both professional and DIY, now I'll be going with batt insulation.

 

[theoldwizard1]

Watch this series on YouTube

Building a Massive Work Shop

 

[OneEyedMan]

Watch this series on YouTube

Building a Massive Work Shop

Watched a bit of that. Those guys have their job dialed in. Really interesting to watch.

 

[Firebrick43]

Is it going to have a ceiling to hold blown in insulation ? How do you "blow in" insulation on walls of wood structure ? I

Its called dense pack and uses netting before the inner steel panels are installed

Un-faced bats will not stay in place on a wall long term.

This is completely untrue. Why do you talk about things you have no idea about? 8 or 10 foot wide batts are hung from the top via being clamped between 2x4 and hung up the header boards and do not move.

Any experience with either/both types? Other pros or cons? This project is a year out right now on the building but I can start groundwork in about three months.

I think the biggest advantage to a wood pole building if DIY is it is much easier to wire and finish out as time allows. Just screw up 20 or 24' 2x4 every 24 inches to the face of the post after the insulation is up and skin it without loosing to much interior volume to wall thickness.

Red iron needs to be engineer from the start, and the vertical beams are too deep into the interior to usually to make a continuous flush wall meaning every thing needs tucked behind it and cut to fit between the beams. Which is a pain and why usually its ends up just having an interior non structural stud wall erected. What a waste of materials.