Steelman PRO Wants YOUR Feedback on Chassis EAR Update

[SteelmanPRO]

Hello Garage Journal Enthusiasts!

Steelman PRO is currently developing a new product that will be a major update to an item that most of you have probably used or heard of, Wireless Chassis Ear. We are seeking feedback from professionals and enthusiasts like yourself who have had frustrations with diagnosing NVH in the past and are looking for a solution that ultimately saves time and money for the technician.

We are updating the platform to more modern technology that also will include the ability to interface wirelessly with smart devices, certain popular scan tools, as well as Windows 7 and 8 PCs and laptops. We want to make sure that this new version of Chassis Ear will be able to help you save time by pinpointing NVH and also serve as a tool for customer feedback and interaction.

I have a few questions that I would like to put out there and also please feel free to add any additional suggestions for things that you think might help you diagnose NVH. I really appreciate everyone's professional opinion and experience and hope that this will lead Steelman PRO to continue producing the best shop level NVH diagnostic tool on the market!

- How do you currently diagnose NVH?


- Are there any areas on a vehicle where NVH problems are particularly frustrating or difficult to diagnose?


- Do you think that being able to record and play back noises for customers would help you to cut down on rework or return visits?


- If noises could be visually represented (for example, a graph) would you see additional value in this feature instead of just audio feedback?


We want to ensure that we develop a product that techs want, not a product that we think techs should want. Your feedback will help us to achieve that objective!

 

[strikeouttruck]

-Currently I use a stethoscope as I have your wireless chassis ears and after having them be repaired 2-3 times I gave up because they always have to much interference to be worth while.

-NVH when it comes to suspension is only annoying because your current wireless chassis ears are a joke. I bought the first set at the shop and 4 other techs bought theirs. No one uses them because the interference is horrible.


-Being able to record noises would be great because alot of time we do not hear the same noise the customer does. Even when you are in the same vehicle with them its very hard for an uneducated customer to give you a clear definition of what noise is bothering them

-The graphing function would be interesting but I wouldn't pay more for it. Its easy enough to differentiate between a bushing knocking over a bump and a hub bearing noise where its hard to see where the graph would be useful.

-If all you did was fix it so the wireless modules actually worked as advertised your product would be 100% better. Sadly unless I got to test the new version first hand and it was at a deeply discounted price I would not be interested.

-Working on Ford the number of strut bearing, wheel bearings, and sub frame noises we deal with on a daily basis is a joke, at this point we are pretty good at "guessing" which component to replace but if we had a chassis ears that was worth anything they would be worth their weight in gold.

 

[logikal]

I myself personally own a chassis ear as does my shop foreman. I have used it a total of 4 times and was severely unimpressed. My foreman has used it once and one of the sensors came flying off during a test drive....It may have been his own doing but nonetheless I have not been a huge fan.

Currently I use my understanding of vehicle systems to pinpoint issues. Honestly, it comes down to experience.

One of the key areas of difficult NVH diagnostics is when it comes to a particular joint and or bushing on the 5 links (Audi/Porsche/Bentley...). So many issues with finding which joint is creaking but there is no way to pinpoint.

Customers already don't care for what we have to say or reasoning behind parts replacement. I have noticed in other shops customers grilling service writers for answers so this audio playback may be a bonus to them.

Now graphs on the other hand I do so love. It would be such an added benefit and would force me to be more apt to use it. That I think would be the strongest recommendation I can give.

 

[SteelmanPRO]

-Currently I use a stethoscope as I have your wireless chassis ears and after having them be repaired 2-3 times I gave up because they always have to much interference to be worth while.

-NVH when it comes to suspension is only annoying because your current wireless chassis ears are a joke. I bought the first set at the shop and 4 other techs bought theirs. No one uses them because the interference is horrible.


-Being able to record noises would be great because alot of time we do not hear the same noise the customer does. Even when you are in the same vehicle with them its very hard for an uneducated customer to give you a clear definition of what noise is bothering them

-The graphing function would be interesting but I wouldn't pay more for it. Its easy enough to differentiate between a bushing knocking over a bump and a hub bearing noise where its hard to see where the graph would be useful.

-If all you did was fix it so the wireless modules actually worked as advertised your product would be 100% better. Sadly unless I got to test the new version first hand and it was at a deeply discounted price I would not be interested.

-Working on Ford the number of strut bearing, wheel bearings, and sub frame noises we deal with on a daily basis is a joke, at this point we are pretty good at "guessing" which component to replace but if we had a chassis ears that was worth anything they would be worth their weight in gold.

Thanks for your honest feedback. One of the improvements that we are making involves the frequency that the transmitters work on. Wireless Chassis Ear currently transmits at 900MHz and in some instances can pick up interference from other electronics. We are moving to 2.4 GHz Bluetooth technology, which allows us to filter out everything but the transmitter itself. Also, Wireless Chassis Ear is powered by alkaline batteries. As the batteries age and/or drain, the transmitters tend to produce a weaker signal and can introduce some interference. We are addressing this by making the transmitters rechargeable, with a run time of ~2 hours and a charge time of ~1 hour.

Once we finish development, we hope to be able to get some demo units out into the field with mobile tool dealers. I hope you will have a chance to see a demo and give us a chance to win you over.

- Dave

 

[SteelmanPRO]

I myself personally own a chassis ear as does my shop foreman. I have used it a total of 4 times and was severely unimpressed. My foreman has used it once and one of the sensors came flying off during a test drive....It may have been his own doing but nonetheless I have not been a huge fan.

Currently I use my understanding of vehicle systems to pinpoint issues. Honestly, it comes down to experience.

One of the key areas of difficult NVH diagnostics is when it comes to a particular joint and or bushing on the 5 links (Audi/Porsche/Bentley...). So many issues with finding which joint is creaking but there is no way to pinpoint.

Customers already don't care for what we have to say or reasoning behind parts replacement. I have noticed in other shops customers grilling service writers for answers so this audio playback may be a bonus to them.

Now graphs on the other hand I do so love. It would be such an added benefit and would force me to be more apt to use it. That I think would be the strongest recommendation I can give.

Thanks for the feedback, the product in development will include Velcro straps and zip ties in an included accessory kit to give added security for clamps during road testing.

The software will include the ability to discern between noise frequencies on the graph and will have an equalizer that will allow you to reduce or increase certain frequency bandwidths in order to more precisely isolate a noise. We don't want to create a "novelty" device that just looks cool on your box, we want something that is truly going to cut diagnostic time, so I really appreciate your feedback regarding suspension links.

- Dave

 

[redwrench60]

I'll be watching what you guys come up with carefully. Noises continue to be a daily repair subject and while many are familiar there's always a new one out there.

 

[leadfoot415]

- How do you currently diagnose NVH?


Seat of the pants, stethoscope, run the vehicle in the air, and occasionally use the old wired chassis ears we have as a shop tool. The wireless ones are useless (interference, pure white noise, etc), and we only have 1 or 2 of the old wired ones after other coworkers dragged the cables on the ground or on the exhaust. We have been nagging our boss to get one of the MTS4000 vibration analyzers, however they are 2300$ and thats not likely to happen lol.

- Are there any areas on a vehicle where NVH problems are particularly frustrating or difficult to diagnose?

Finding random bushing noises, subframes creaking, wheel bearing noises on a non drive axle.

- Do you think that being able to record and play back noises for customers would help you to cut down on rework or return visits?

Not worth incorporating directly into a NVH device, but could easily be implemented to record onto a smart phone or the like easily if using a bluetooth connection or an "app".

- If noises could be visually represented (for example, a graph) would you see additional value in this feature instead of just audio feedback?


Maybe if the graphs were detailed enough to pinpoint the highest amount of noise to a certain sensor. This is useful so you can do fewer test drives over the same bump or recreate the situation, but can go back to the shop or pull over and check your smart phone and see what sensor had the strongest noise.

-Working on Ford the number of strut bearing, wheel bearings, and sub frame noises we deal with on a daily basis is a joke, at this point we are pretty good at "guessing" which component to replace but if we had a chassis ears that was worth anything they would be worth their weight in gold.

Thats basically what I do as well, especially under warranty. Our dealers NVH diagnosis equipment is a joke.

 

[Jaralaccs]

Frequency feedback would be nice. That's the only thing I like about the wireless version vs the wired. The red dot blinks the same frequency as the noise. I doubt anyone would care to listen to it, I wouldn't worry about recording.
I own the wired 1st gen version. I chose that over the wireless for a lot of reasons. Mostly because of sensors falling off, they're too big anyway, too many batteries to worry about, maybe cost also.
I've had pretty good success so far. I think most people's frustration comes from ignorance of it's capabilities.

I don't know if you're aware but Honda/Acura training has dedicated an entire training module on finding noises with the chasis ear. First the give you a clicker box with a remote, and you place it on different surfaces under a car, attach the mics all over and start clicking. It gives you an understanding of why noises transmit through certain places and not others. Then they rig a car with something that's making a noise and task you to find out what it is.

I think most people's problems aren't really the chassis ear's fault. Unless you can reproduce a noise consistently (like every time you go over a bump you hear a knock) it's of little use. If I have to go down hill and make a hard left turn to throw the weight of the car on the right front suspension to get the noise to happen 1/2 the time -that takes a lot of set up, and a ton of time spent diagnosing: Try it, listen to channel 1, ok. Turn around go back up the hill, turn around, try it again and listen to channel 2 now, this time the car didn't make the noise.. go back up the hill etc etc etc. A quick youtube video showing it's limitations might help. Showing to avoid clamping near things control vibration to begin with. Like a suspension arm that's surrounded by rubber bushings/mounts is going to be pointless.

1 - I would want the sensors as strong as possible, surrounded in a rubber shell so that even if they hit the ground, they'll still be ok.
2 - They should also be as small as possible. Maybe a sensor with different length mic wires? You can attach a 6 inch clamp to the microphone box or leave the box out in the open and attach 2 ft clamp (to that same box) to get into a tighter location.
3 - I feel like I only ever use 2/3 mircophones at a time. 6 is overkill

 

[GTA Matt]

- How do you currently diagnose NVH?

I have a set of wired chassis ears and an engine ear elite. Duplicate the noise either through test drive, running vehicle in the air or bouncing/turning the wheels on a drive on lift.


- Are there any areas on a vehicle where NVH problems are particularly frustrating or difficult to diagnose?

Occasionally chasing down squeaks or other noises in the front or rear of vehicles with multiple upper or lower ball joints or links requires a bit more time and a trained ear to pin down.



- Do you think that being able to record and play back noises for customers would help you to cut down on rework or return visits?

Not really. If unsure which noise the customer is concerned about (sometimes they just want the squeak fixed and don't care about the popping noise over bumps) just test drive with them or get clarity of the noise, duplicate, identify source and repair. No need to play it back to them IMO.


- If noises could be visually represented (for example, a graph) would you see additional value in this feature instead of just audio feedback?

YES! Especially in cases like I mentioned above. Several times in the past few weeks I've had Mercedes Benz's and Dodge Chargers with noise from the front end. Multiple lower ball joints and noise that travels through all the parts of the suspension make it difficult to discern exactly which one the noise is coming from. A visual graph would be great to see exactly which location has the most sound.


We want to ensure that we develop a product that techs want, not a product that we think techs should want. Your feedback will help us to achieve that objective!

I've been toying with the idea of getting rid of my wired ears for the wireless, something visually displaying the frequency and amplitude of noises would make that decision very easy.

 

[SteelmanPRO]

Thanks for all of the feedback so far, I knew you guys would have some real insightful information. Just to touch on a few things I have seen:


- Stethoscope: We know that this is a tried and true NHV detection system, and we have not forgotten about it. Our new product will include, in addition to the traditional clamps, a wireless microphone probe with detachable stethoscope wand, much like our Engine EAR product.

- What we are trying to accomplish here is create a tool that is less complicated (and less expensive!) than something like a vibration analyzer, but more advanced than a simple listening device. We want techs to be able to use their knowledge and intuition in conjunction with the tool.

- We will certainly produce training materials and hold web based seminars for training and Q&A sessions. Like Jaralaccs said, the tool is only as good as the instructions/training, and the Honda program is second to none.

- The clamps being variable sizes is interesting. I will certainly pass this along to the engineers. The size of the clamp will be reduced in comparison to Wireless Chassis Ear. The transmitter modules are much smaller because of there not being a large battery pack on them. But making different size clamps is a doable thing.

- The transmitter modules will have a rubber boot over them that will help them to endure impact and weather better. They will also have a loop built into them for zip ties.

- We are trying to make the software as much a part of the tool as the hardware. Great suggestions so far on the functionality you expect from it, please keep those suggestions coming!

 

[sfp221]

Good afternoon Dave,
Could you give us an update of the actual state of the tool? Is already available on the market? Is there any distributor in UK or Europe? I found particularly interesting the recording feature for remote diagnostics that rely on recordings to try to understand the kind of noises. Is there any way of having more in deep information of the tool other than the available on your website?
Thank you so much,
sfp221

 

[SteelmanPRO]

Good afternoon Dave,
Could you give us an update of the actual state of the tool? Is already available on the market? Is there any distributor in UK or Europe? I found particularly interesting the recording feature for remote diagnostics that rely on recordings to try to understand the kind of noises. Is there any way of having more in deep information of the tool other than the available on your website?
Thank you so much,
sfp221

Hi,

Thanks for the inquiry. We did in fact release the tool. It is called Bluetooth ChassisEAR and it comes with 4 sensors, expandable to 6 (Part #78684). We also released a scaled down version called Bluetooth ChassisEAR Lite, which comes with one sensor and a sound probe/stethoscope attachment (Part #78752)

You can see more details on our website at http://steelmanpro.com/diagnostics/intelli-tech.html

PTEN magazine also did a write up on the tool in their August edition. If you need more information, please PM me with your contact info and I will send you some literature.

Currently, we offer limited distribution in the UK and Europe through Hubitools. They may be able to help you find a retailer if you contact them. Also, both versions are offered on Amazon.com. Just search for "Steelman PRO" and the part number.

- Dave

 

[K-Dog]

subscribing.....

 

[Hopalong604]

Arghhgg! I just ordered the old wireless chassi ears because I was fed up with the wires of our shop steel man ears wish I saw this thread before I bought it off the truck...

 

[ItsNemo]

Any idea where to get the new version in Canada? I've got a front end noise that I haven't been able to hunt down and it might be time to pick up a set of chassis ears.