New to this site, great source of information! I'm planning to build a pole barn type workshop in a remote location in the Sierra's. I want to make my own gabled steel trusses, I am a decent welder,but I am having a difficult time finding some plans or someone who can draw truss plans for me. I don't plan on permitting the building, but I would like to build it to code. 75 lbs./sq ft snow and 110 mph. Saw timartin85's shop build, really impressive. My building will be much simpler; finding good information on the trusses seems to be the challenge. Thanks for any help, pmeyers
SteelTrusses
- Thread starter pmeyers
- Start date
bczygan
Well-known member
A warm welcome to GJ!!!
Span? Spacing? Red iron building?
You need an engineer.
Bill
Span? Spacing? Red iron building?
You need an engineer.
Bill
86turbodsl
Well-known member
I wouldn't spend the money on steel for only an 18' span. I usually go for steel for longer spans like 22+ ft. Have you looked into a local lumberyard and had them spec you out a truss design?
Stuart in MN
Well-known member
Without knowing what state you live in, it's difficult to give advice on how to find an engineer (they need to be licensed to work in your state). You can try going to your state's official website and looking for a link to the state engineering board, they may be able to provide you with a list of structural engineers in your area.
ssdave
Banned
You're not going to find standard truss plans for a steel truss with your loadings. You need to have it designed properly.
Just from my experience/observations/design knowledge, I wouldn't use a welded steel truss for this; I'd go with conventional section steel components, and bolted connections. As a licensed engineer, there is no way I would prepare a welded steel truss plan for homemade construction. I'd be quite comfortable doing it for a bolted steel construction.
Welded steel trusses using lighter components (space trusses) are more economical and lighter when mass produced with adequate quality control; but for a home shop they are much more difficult to fab up, and the design costs are high.
Any reasonably competent civil/architectural/structural engineer can calculate a bolted steel truss design for you; it's just a matter of finding one in your area that is willing to take it on for a competitive price. Giving your location would help GJ members to give you a recommendation of who they know that might help you out.
good luck with your project!
Just from my experience/observations/design knowledge, I wouldn't use a welded steel truss for this; I'd go with conventional section steel components, and bolted connections. As a licensed engineer, there is no way I would prepare a welded steel truss plan for homemade construction. I'd be quite comfortable doing it for a bolted steel construction.
Welded steel trusses using lighter components (space trusses) are more economical and lighter when mass produced with adequate quality control; but for a home shop they are much more difficult to fab up, and the design costs are high.
Any reasonably competent civil/architectural/structural engineer can calculate a bolted steel truss design for you; it's just a matter of finding one in your area that is willing to take it on for a competitive price. Giving your location would help GJ members to give you a recommendation of who they know that might help you out.
good luck with your project!
They seem to be more in the South
These are some "kit" suppliers.
This outfit offers free "templates"
The download comes with some baggage so I didn't download it.
Your choice.
https://www.doityourself.com/stry/how-to-build-a-steel-roof-truss
These are some "kit" suppliers.
This outfit offers free "templates"
The download comes with some baggage so I didn't download it.
Your choice.
https://www.doityourself.com/stry/how-to-build-a-steel-roof-truss
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rburke65
Well-known member
No....for 18’ span, the woodt4usses can’t be that much.
For an 18' span I would design the bottom chord for the load, and then you can piece together what ever you want within reason to make your pitch. All else fails, the beam would still be standing. What state?
readhead
Well-known member
Are you near Lake Tahoe? There should be no shortage of structural engineers that can design a truss. What are you going to use for purlins? I would agree with SSDave about welded truss's. Not knowing your ability could be a problem with a welded truss.
Another option would be to look at a red iron steel building. It may be a cost savings option and will give you a clear span with no bottom cord.
Another option would be to look at a red iron steel building. It may be a cost savings option and will give you a clear span with no bottom cord.
ssdave
Banned
Steel roof support trusses aren't hard to design and build; here's a picture of the most interesting one I have done; this was an all bolted steel construction, with standing seam metal roof skin. All conventional steel, nothing special fab, built by a local metal shop. It's designed for extremely high snow load, as well as interesting wind loads because of it being exposed underneath. I'm not a great mechanical/structural engineer, just a general civil. Not real hard to do. And, the roof has held up for a number of years, so I must have got something right.
https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7279/7435399046_12a6180b67_o.jpg
https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7279/7435399046_12a6180b67_o.jpg
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firebirdparts
Well-known member
What you really want in a situation like this is engineering. They do it at the truss shop, but it's sort of invisible to the customer. So you're going to have to do some guesstimating on your own if you want to make your own trusses. If you have specific wind loads in mind, then you are going to need a good engineer as opposed to just an engineer.
Thanks guys. I appreciate the information. Did not know that a bolt together steel truss might be a better option. I live in Ridgecrest, Ca, but will be building in a place that is called Kennedy Meadows. About 7,000 feet in the top of the Sieara to recover our property from a forest fire that we experienced quite a few years ago.mountains.
rtz
Well-known member
Just did a 30x30 metal building. Used 4 of these. Some rectangular tubing and some square pieces of flat plate as you can see at the top center on both sides and on the ends. A good chance this company would potentially supply you with some plans if you call them:
http://bbmofokc.com/trusses.htm
http://bbmofokc.com/trusses.htm
bczygan
Well-known member
If you would never need approvals from anyone, then you can do what you want. There are beam calculators online you could use to design a steel joist and rafter solution.
The reason an engineer would only design a bolt together design, is that they have too much liability exposure for your welding.
What pitch and overhang?
Any attic storage?
Anything hanging from the roof structure?
Steel purlins? They need design too.
What roofing?
Bill
The reason an engineer would only design a bolt together design, is that they have too much liability exposure for your welding.
What pitch and overhang?
Any attic storage?
Anything hanging from the roof structure?
Steel purlins? They need design too.
What roofing?
Bill
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True and I appreciate and understand that. However, in a practical sense, if you can't make a welded joint at least as strong as a bolt through a hole, you need to get a different hobby...
matt_i
Well-known member
Find someone else with similar build, in your area (iow subject to same snow loads) and copy the details of their trusses as closely as possible.
I would only weld with 7018 sticks.
I would only weld with 7018 sticks.
ssdave
Banned
The other reason an engineer might design a bolted truss for you instead of a welded one is that a welded joint is a moment resisting connection, at least in theory. A bolted connection is a theoritical pin connection, that is analyzed differently. You don't need complex software to analyze pinned connection trusses; so easier to find an engineer that will take a small job like this on for you.
Bills idea of using span tables, etc for designing a steel roof is a sound one, if you do a simple rafter system. It will not work for a true truss; which is where steel would excell at strength because of it's huge tensile strength. Steel isn't an ideal material for a simple rafter system; it's too flexible and deflection ends up controlling.
Toothaker
Well-known member
I'm intrigued that the non-engineers are saying 'slap it together and call it good' and the actual engineers are saying to do it right. The better advice is coming from the engineers.
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readhead
Well-known member
I'm a structural steel fabricator and there are several ways this can go wrong. When you are going to put a pile of steel over your head and load it up with more roof structure and then a bunch of snow you want it to be right. For the small amount of money for a structural engineer the OP will sleep better at night.
Of course the next critical issue is the welding ability of whoever will assemble the trusses. Being able to "weld pretty good" probably isn't good enough for what we are talking about. Knowing how to assemble the truss without warping and stressing it is a skill in itself.
Of course the next critical issue is the welding ability of whoever will assemble the trusses. Being able to "weld pretty good" probably isn't good enough for what we are talking about. Knowing how to assemble the truss without warping and stressing it is a skill in itself.
My suggestion is to find a pole building supplier in your area and find out from them who's done their drawings. That engineer will have already done the math and will be very familiar with the requirements and design features needed.
You may need to be a little cagey when asking who their engineer is - something like, "I'm wanting to do a more custom design; who would you recommend to do the drawings?"
You may need to be a little cagey when asking who their engineer is - something like, "I'm wanting to do a more custom design; who would you recommend to do the drawings?"
Just want to be clear, I'm not to avoid getting an engineer, not having any luck finding someone who will work with me. Don't blame them, they have no idea if I can do a competent job building the trusses or not and it's a small job. Not a lot of this type of construction in my area so not much to copy. This is California. The typical way things are done here is to hire a contractor, pay the fees and get out of the way. Can't afford that and have been accustomed to doing my own work. Thanks for the advice...
Just to add one thought, I know what I don't know and I know that I don't know how to design a truss. I've never slapped anything together and I don't hear anyone suggesting that. Given a plan I could build a truss. I can also buy them if I know where . Most of the truss builders that advertise seem to be on the other side of the country and don't design for snow load over 30lb/sqft.
firebirdparts
Well-known member
Trusses are actually easy to design, especially in a simple case like this. To be honest, you don't even need trusses to build a building 18 feet wide (FWIW). It's a pretty low risk situation as these things go. The wind load, however, has to be converted into force and that is something I don't know how to do.
To the distinction above about "engineers or not" I think it's perfectly fine to build outbuildings "plenty strong" as long as the authority having jurisdiction doesn't object. People have done that for thousands of years and it actually works pretty well. If you poke around a few 100 year old buildings you'll see lots that weren't really overbuilt.
Most people that like to weld things build items all the time that are plenty strong. Engineers can't typically predict what breaks based on fatigue in my experience. So calculations are useful but not a cure-all.
To the distinction above about "engineers or not" I think it's perfectly fine to build outbuildings "plenty strong" as long as the authority having jurisdiction doesn't object. People have done that for thousands of years and it actually works pretty well. If you poke around a few 100 year old buildings you'll see lots that weren't really overbuilt.
Most people that like to weld things build items all the time that are plenty strong. Engineers can't typically predict what breaks based on fatigue in my experience. So calculations are useful but not a cure-all.
Thanks kbs2244, I'll call them. Tried the place that rtz suggested. They said that I would have to be woking with an engineer and have engineered plans for my structure before they would consider working with me. They would then engineer the truss separately. Crazy.
Just call more engineering companies. This is a pretty simple job. Call a local realtor and see if they have a recommendation of an engineer that does work for them. Those guys are used to doing smaller type jobs. While steel may seem easier...it really seems like doing wood trusses is. They will be engineered. I had 18 trusses delivered and sealed (scissor trusses) for $2200. If you only need 4, skip the $350 engineering stamp and just buy the trusses. Trusses should be under $800
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bczygan
Well-known member
Do you want steel just so you can weld them yourself?
Bill
Bill
Property is located in the high sierras. 20 acres. It was fully developed at one time with a 40x60 shop, mobile home and some out buildings. All of which was wiped out by a forest fire in 2002. Getting up there in age so I want to fix up the property so that it becomes a place where the grandkids want to spend some time when I leave it to them. Reconfigured my well for solar, put in panels and going to haul up a 39' 5th wheel. The structure is to protect the 5th wheel during the winter. I prefer the steel trusses in the event of another fire down the road. It won't be a forest fire, but could be a brush fire. Exposed wood trusses would be quick to ignite. I can buy the trusses or make them, either way works. I'll keep exploring options. Thanks
bczygan
Well-known member
Steel isn't fireproof.
I tried to get steel trusses here in Toronto, Ontario. I have 24x34 foot shed which I was only allowed an 11'3" peak and 8' walls this gave me a roof pitch of 3/12.
I wanted scissor trusses so that I could get my door opening to 8', got 2 quotes over 30,000 and gave up.
Hope you have better luck than I did.
I wanted scissor trusses so that I could get my door opening to 8', got 2 quotes over 30,000 and gave up.
Hope you have better luck than I did.
readhead
Well-known member
Bill is correct. Steel is not fireproof. It is fire resistant. Now that we know your reasoning I would suggest you look into a complete pre-engineered metal building with all the appropriate metal closures. Take time to mitigate fuels around the site.
terabitdan
Well-known member
- Joined
- Jul 16, 2016
- Messages
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I know it’s not what your looking for to build your own trusses but versatube.com will sell you a complete steel framed building kit with all materials included for under $15k. That’s with your desired 75 lb snow and 110 wind loads and delivered to the property.
You can get the frame only for much less and purchase the rest of the material locally.
BTW, They say code is much lower than that.
I am not affiliated with them, just thinking it might be easier to get a frame kit than finding an engineer.
You can get the frame only for much less and purchase the rest of the material locally.
BTW, They say code is much lower than that.
I am not affiliated with them, just thinking it might be easier to get a frame kit than finding an engineer.
I know that steel is not fire proof, hence the cutting torch. In the case of exposure to sparks and cinders it won't ignite, as demonstrated by the grinding wheel. That's what I'm trying for. BTW that is the building code. It is located at 7000 feet and is a code exception within the county for the area. If money wasn't a concern I could just call a company and order something. Still wouldn't be getting what I want-I've looked at a lot of options. Lot of good suggestions here and I appreciate people 's time. Just need to make up my mind right now. Likely to let the 5th wheel go one winter exposed and spend the winter building something that I can erect in the spring. Thanks for your help guys guys. Have lots to work with....