Step 1 for finishing the garage?

[d3ad1ysp0rk]

First home, first real work on said home. I thoroughly admit I have no idea what I am doing when it comes to:
- Permits
- Structural engineering
- Insulation (what kind?)
- Drywall (fireproof only for the wall that touches the house? etc)
- etc

However, even an amateur like myself can tell when something is off. The "structure" (trusses?) of the roof are a complete mix match of 2x4s, instead of beams. I guess that's fine, but the heights aren't uniform either, like someone built some initially, and then added some later.

I'm also slightly concerned about 2x4s that are doubled up on the foundation, that the rest of the studs sit on, as there are gaps, and they seem to be angled. I'd just rest easier if someone better than me looked at them.

I want to run outlets including 220 (my roommate is an electrician, so that helps), insulate and drywall the ceiling (which is not really possible right now, as the "beams" are uneven), and eventually create additional storage in the "attic" of the garage with some pull down stairs/ladder.

Anyways, I've attached some photos of the problem areas, in case anyone is curious. My real question is.. what do I do now? Call a structural engineer? Someone from the city? Do I get a permit first, or after I talk someone? I want to do everything except the electrical and roof/structure work, even if it takes me a bit...

Thanks!

 

[bazzateer]

Anyways, I've attached some photos of the problem areas,

Have you?

 

[Hdtheater]

No pics, sounds like you have lots of opportunities ahead of you.

 

[d3ad1ysp0rk]

Oops! Sorry guys, got overly excited to post.


http://i.imgur.com/xRhMHaM.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/Fa9CrJE.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/aLoBfXv.jpg

 

[Nowater]

Trusses are engineered as one unit. Those boards look like separate roof rafters and ceiling joists (without the ceiling) and not trusses. There is something lost in not seeing them in person, but the center joint on the ceiling joists almost looks like it was meant to bear onto a supporting wall or a center beam. I question how much load could be supported on those joists.

It may be time for you to bring in professional help.

 

[d3ad1ysp0rk]

Thank you!

Should I be looking for a "Structural engineer"?

 

[kbs2244]

A good carpenter will be able to give you workable advice.

 

[jvitez]

A good carpenter will be able to give you workable advice.

True, but if you really want piece of mind, pay for a structural engineering assessment. It will be several hundred $ but you'll get a written report with an engineer's stamp, meaning he is taking full responsibility and liability on the veracity of his opinion.

 

[Zeke]

Those are just sloppy rafter ties and that's how it's done many times especially many years ago. You can't really use them for a ceiling. You will need to install continuous ceiling joists rated for the span and then take down the ties if you want to clean up the mess.

In garages like that I have installed a suspended ceiling with tiles and flush light fixtures. Inexpensive and quick. Not much storage available above if that's a goal.

 

[Homerr]

This was a common way to build a garage roof up in to at least the 1970's. My parent's garage was build in 1970 in the Portland, Or. area and it looks very similar. There is nothing really structurally wrong with this layout of roof.

BUT....it is not meant for storage on top of the bottom chords or probably even sheetrock on the ceiling. If you plan to do either then contact an engineer in your area if you want to have the best possible advice. A good local builder could probably come up with reinforcing as well, but it may not be backed up by 'numbers'.

 

[Zeke]

A good carpenter will be able to give you workable advice.

True, but if you really want piece of mind, pay for a structural engineering assessment. It will be several hundred $ but you'll get a written report with an engineer's stamp, meaning he is taking full responsibility and liability on the veracity of his opinion.

Many times a good carpenter is a lot smarter than an engineer. Not trying to offend any PE's here. But we do understand the concept of "covering your ***," otherwise known as overbuilding.

Just find a span table and calculate the drywall load and any live load planned (storage) and joist the thing out if you have to have DW.

 

[188slo50]

I would defiantly trust the carpenter over the engineer when it comes to this. On a side note the garage looks to be built exactly like my grandparents was and its an easy 50+yrs with no issues and many bad storms thrown at it.

 

[d3ad1ysp0rk]

Thanks all! My brother in law is a carpenter, so he's stopping by Sunday to take a look. I imagine it will be a bit of work to get the joist situation fixed, but it will likely be worth it because I do prefer drywall, and having additional storage will be useful.

 

[bczygan]

Here's exactly how to figure the size of the ceiling joists needed.

Determine the span.

Decide on the amount of storage capacity you want in #/SF, IE 20, 30 40 etc.
That is your live load

Find out how much 1/2" drywall and 2x8 joists at 16" spacing weigh/SF.
That is your dead load (Disregard the lighting fixtures)

Find a joist table that matches your live and dead loads and find the size and spacing that works for a deflection of 1/360 or 1/480 of span.

Make sure you buy a product that matches the material in this table in all size, species, strength etc.

 

[Zeke]

Here's exactly how to figure the size of the ceiling joists needed.

Determine the span.

Decide on the amount of storage capacity you want in #/SF, IE 20, 30 40 etc.
That is your live load

Find out how much 1/2" drywall and 2x8 joists at 16" spacing weigh/SF.
That is your dead load (Disregard the lighting fixtures)

Find a joist table that matches your live and dead loads and find the size and spacing that works for a deflection of 1/360 or 1/480 of span.

Make sure you buy a product that matches the material in this table in all size, species, strength etc.

Good advice and don't forget, crown up. Sort the lumber and put the most crowned out in the center.

 

[bczygan]

Good advice and don't forget, crown up. Sort the lumber and put the most crowned out in the center.

Zeke,
You just taught this old office rat something! Shows how field experience is invaluable. And I can see you've had your share!

I always look forward to your posts and read them carefully. They always have the ring of experience and your solutions are not too much and not too little, but just right.

Bill

 

[Falcon67]

All the above, X2. typical 60s/early 70s garage construction. Deadload for a typical ceiling is usually run at 5 lbs sq/ft, which is not quite double the weight of drywall/tape/mud. It's certainly not close to current span tables, but you'd be shocked at how much **** you could throw up on those. Not advising that you do that, just sayin' from experience. I had to unload the rafters of the old 16x22 when I fixed that building. Probably 600+ lbs of lumber, pipe, misc items up there. 16' span, 2x6, 48" oc - no problem. Again - not recommended! Ex BIL has a 24x24 built almost exactly like your pics - you don't want to see what's in that attic. Including motocycles hung from the rafters.