Stick welder AC vs DC questions.

[Fender1325]

Guys Ive been kicking around the idea of getting a stick welder to add to my arsenal (just a hobart handler 140 mig currently) and Id like to know this: what scenarios or processes would I be forfeiting by buying a cheaper AC only lincoln? Mainly Id be using the stick on 1/8" and 1/4" mild steel.

 

[domain]

I feel like i should know more but.... DC is what is generally used. If you are having trouble with arc blow you switch to ac. Someone correct me if wrong

 

[Fender1325]

Bttt

 

[sorefoot]

Pretty sure you can easily set up a DC machine to tig weld steel. I only have a wirefeed machine myself but I looked into this at one point and decided if I did get a stick welder it would be either DC or AC/DC.


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[RedneckWelder]

You can get by fine with an AC machine easy- plenty of rods to accommodate it (7018AC and 6011), DC is just nicer to have.

Pretty sure you can easily set up a DC machine to tig weld steel

You can, easiest with an infinitely variable machine vs. a tapped machine though. You just need an argon tank, regulator, and a tig torch cable with a valve on it and a lug on the cable so you can clamp the stinger on to it. Done in the field all the time.

 

[Bondo]

DC is what is generally used.

Ayuh,.... If ya plan to run much 7018, DC is the way to go,...

It's mostly 'bout the filler rods,...

If ya just wanta run farmer's rod, like 6011/ 6013, buy a cheaper AC unit,....

If ya wanta run 'bout any rod out there, ya need the AC/ DC unit,....

 

[Kensgarage]

Redneck got it right.
If you're buying used you should look for an AC/DC due to the savings available.If you're on a pinched budget just look for an AC225 Lincoln If you want a new machine get an AC only. 7014, AC7018R, 6013 and 6011 will cover you from most any chore involving steel. Yes, even sheet metal with a good 6013 or 7014 when a MIG is not an option.
Stick with Hobart-Miller or Lincoln.

If this will be portable and/or 110 only setup you need to investigate inverter welders.There are MANY.
That's a topic for welding web forums NOT Garage Journalists who"should know more" or "read somewhere" or "my uncles lawn man uses" and other such insightful bleating.

 

[sberry]

If you are working on equipment a DC is way better for out of position work. All of those electrodes run better on DC. These little DC buzzers are very good, have a great arc. I have 10 machines and it what I still use in the shop.
Having said that, if I wanted to work portable or had limited power it isn't what I would buy today. For 220$ would be looking at an Everlast stick inverter. It will do real work from 120V and on 240 @ 20A will run 1/8 7018. Same output as the buzzer. Saves leads and cords.

 

[sberry]

While tig gets a lot of press it really is way down on my list of got to have tools. I havnt DC tig anything in 30 years or more and its not that I cant or don't have a machine but the modern wire feed has really taken over as the workhorse in a small shop. Its not that it cant be tig welded but I just don't need to.
IMOP a shop needs a stick machine. One of the things that keeps the AC side is that it can actually run larger electrodes but its not really a deal for home or maintenance. I may have used AC once for some exotic alloy issue but I could take the knob off set to DCRP. This is what is used in piping and construction, I am sure ine can find some exception but 13 and 14 are still around soley due to the AC machine and used by part timers, I do know a couple guys that do use them well but they are rather limited and an Ironworker, Pipefitter or Boilermaker could go a whole career without using one.

 

[sberry]

There were some early issues with 6010 on inverters so I changed to 6011 (back where I started and tried to get away from,,, ha) but I still use it. You need 2 rods with a DC machine in this class. 1/8 6011 and 3/32 7018 and with 240V 1/8 7018.
I have smaller sizes in all the flavors, 1 rod out of each box, the rest sit and I go back to what I use for 30 yrs.

what scenarios or processes would I be forfeiting by buying a cheaper AC only lincoln?

The electrode selection is somewhat an issue and the ability to do real professional work in all positions. This would be the type of machine and electrode used in all position pipe work, what one would test with in real certification.
Makes a huge difference welding a crack up on an old machine, filling gaps, welding around piping.

 

[sberry]

Look at the first pass in this little 2 pass weld. The operator simply held it and progressed up hill in a stringer fashion. Not so on AC7018, it takes a weave, really requires a quite a bit higher skill lever especially under adverse condition and poor fitment.
Look at second pic, operator had to work like a dog to keep it from all drooping in the middle. 7018AC.
You can see at the very bottom of first pic that I could make it almost flat if I was so inclined.

 

[sberry]

Here are a couple 6011 pics. There is probably someone some where can replicate these and I am not an everyday welder but it would be tough on AC.
1st is square open **** vertical and the second is the same simple fit clamped to the bench and welded overhead. With a little practice one can refine this to an art.
The welders do the same thing but the inverter shines if you want to do it in the field. Handrail comes to mind. Security bars etc.

 

[Fender1325]

Thanks everyone - ill keep my eye out for a good deal in craigslist

 

[AndyA]

What's your budget?

I just bought an ESAB miniarc 161lts for $515. I'd recommend this as a first machine. It will do stick and lift-arc tig (no remote). It's DC only, so no tig on aluminum. $685 will get the "tig package" with torch and regulator. I already have another tig machine, so I just bought this to use as a portable stick machine.

I've run 1/8" 7018 on this and the duty cycle is good enough not to slow you down. I've also run 6010 and it will hold a good arc.

It weights 18 lbs and will also run on 120 volts (at lower amperage and duty cycle). Excellent for portable work.

 

[trackwelder]

A miller 150s inverter would serve you well. It will burn 3/32 7018 no problem on a 20 amp circuit. 1/8 7018 Burns nice on 220. It's my go to welder for small field jobs.

 

[AndyA]

A miller 150s inverter would serve you well. It will burn 3/32 7018 no problem on a 20 amp circuit. 1/8 7018 Burns nice on 220. It's my go to welder for small field jobs.

The maxstar 150stl is one I was looking to buy before I bought the EASB. Reviews on the internet say it won't burn 6010. That's the main reason I didn't buy it. Have you run 6010 on yours? How does it run them?

 

[trackwelder]

The maxstar 150stl is one I was looking to buy before I bought the EASB. Reviews on the internet say it won't burn 6010. That's the main reason I didn't buy it. Have you run 6010 on yours? How does it run them?

I have burned tons of 6010p and 6010p+ without any problems. Only thing that I did to improve that machine was to add a magnetic ground clamp.

I do not know much about the unit you have but isn't it nice not to have to drag heavy leads around for small jobs.

 

[John in OH]

Guys Ive been kicking around the idea of getting a stick welder to add to my arsenal (just a hobart handler 140 mig currently) and Id like to know this: what scenarios or processes would I be forfeiting by buying a cheaper AC only lincoln? Mainly Id be using the stick on 1/8" and 1/4" mild steel.

Well, sure, an AC/DC machine is always better. But .... based on the limited criteria you've provided an AC machine would probably be fine. My family bought a 180 amp AC Forney welder way back in the 1960s and we used it on the farm for all of our maintenance work for over 40 years. It is no longer used, but will still run an arc just fine.

As others have already said, it really depends on what you want to weld, but if it's just meat & potatoes welding of heavier gauge mild steel, AC will probably do the job for you.

 

[tool_scrounge]

I would look for a used one. Unless you need portable, usually the heavier the better as the duty cycle tends to be higher. Just add a frame with caster wheels to move around or put it on a pallet and move with a pallet jack. I am a fan of the old but built like a tank Lincoln Idealarc 250 AC/DC welders. The attached picture is of the older version. The newer version is a bit more square. I have seen them selling for as little as $100.

 

[2mJps]

For the better part of my life i have held a job were welding was a big part of it and i have been to some welding schooling. My dad bought a lincoln AC225 42 years ago he dosent weld but me and my brother and are friends have repaired millions of things with it and build close to 100 trailers from lawnmower to goose neck,built several stockcar rollcages.several flatbeds, lengthened and shortened truck frames. One thing i would say to you is take some Night class on stick welding i did after i had welded for several years and thought i new alot it helped me alot.

 

[sberry]

A big part of the push to a DC machine is the cost is a rather cheap step up in this case. For an extra hundred or so on the used market and a couple to 250$ difference on new isn't much in the grand scheme of things in the tool world.
Old hands used to say, I spent another 100 on a welder and never had to buy rods again.

 

[sberry]

A miller 150s inverter would serve you well. It will burn 3/32 7018 no problem on a 20 amp circuit. 1/8 7018 Burns nice on 220. It's my go to welder for small field jobs.

Its not a reach for me to spend a grand on a machine but to compete with the cost and stay in a price range of a used buzzer the import is looking way better lately.
Even at the cost of the Max it can look good, a remote used to cost that much. I remember a nuke we were on, all 3/32 and 1/8 7018 and miles of 4/0 lead from a station where you could pick polarity to a remote full of huge resistors one could short out and turn down low for higher cooking.
Little diddle welding and huge monster machines. Now they use Maxstars, complete machine for 1500 a pop tig and all with little dinky extension cords.
I regret I had was never following the leads down and see how they generated the current in the power plant scheme. There were stations on every floor with a couple leads going to it and you plugged a lead in to one side for stick and the other for tig

 

[wagon]

Pick up a used Miller Thunderbolt XL AC/DC.

Infinite voltage control, and they NEVER break. The rotating handle on the front moves a shunt block further into, or out of, the transformer. This controls your output current.

The Lincoln machines are tap setting, and uses a plastic piece not unlike a "point" deal off a distributor to set your amperage. You have 5 contact points for your output current, maybe 6.

DC is a smoother arc, and allows for far more electrode variety. While you can get 7018AC rods, it does run better on DC. Unless you're a farmer welding on rusty ****, or are too lazy to de-scale or strip the rust off parts, you'll want to run rods other than 6011.

Some ****, like Jet or Rocket rod (7024) takes stupid amperage you wouldn't typically get on a machine like this. The Thunderbolt does allow for 160A of DC current, while the Lincoln equivalent gives you 125A. You can run 1/8" 7024 on a Thunderbolt.