Stick Welder

[JayL]

Anybody have this welding machine? Is $299 a good price?

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/t...t_shr?_encoding=UTF8&m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&v=glance

Thanks ...

 

[KenS]

If you're going to get a Stickmate, do yourself a favor, spend the extra bucks and get the AC-DC combo.

http://www.amazon.com/Hobart-Stickmate-AC-DC-Welder/dp/B000BPRJAI/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=hi&qid=1223436259&sr=1-2

 

[Merkava_4]

DCRP is better so you can use the good E7018 rods. Here's a good machine that runs on single phase:

http://millerwelds.com/products/stick/dialarc_250_ac_dc/

 

[Rory Bellows]

Check out TSC for an ac/dc Stickmate. I think they usually sell for 399.00 there. Or better yet buy used. I picked up a Miller Thunderbolt at an auction for $60 with long leads. Craigslist is also good. An AC only machine can be had for $100 everyday and AC/DC $150-$250.

DCRP is better so you can use the good E7018 rods. Here's a good machine that runs on single phase:

http://millerwelds.com/products/stick/dialarc_250_ac_dc/

If he owned a small factory maybe that would be a good welder. Plus, I think that model needs a 100 amp breaker to run and weighs over 300lbs. Not to mention the cost. For that money buying a stick only machine with no built in tig capabilities is not a good recommendation.

 

[Rory Bellows]

Okay your in Manilla so your options may be a bit more limited. I really don't know.

 

[JayL]

Power is 220 Volts 50/60 Hz standard here in Manila. I checked the market locally and for no name Chiwanese brands these go for around $150 to $250. Frankly speakiing most are crappy and you could easily tell just by looking. I haven't checked the industrial suppliers yet but I'm sure it would cost an arm to buy from them. Hence I'm now checking the US market for a reasonably priced mid range (= something useful) stick welder. I will use this around the house for maintenance and in the home workshop.

tks for the replies.

Oh I almost forget , it would have to be of reasonable weight.

 

[kidatari]

Build a Microwave Transformer Homemade Stick/Arc Welder

Make your own for free(ish)!

 

[Merkava_4]

Oh I almost forget , it would have to be of reasonable weight.

http://millerwelds.com/products/stick/cst-280/

 

[eschoendorff]

I was gonna suggest to look for used machines... then I too remembered that you are in Manila.

What I can tell you is that I am very happy with the quality of my Hobart welder. I wouldn't hesitate to buy another Hobart product.

 

[MarkH]

You might also want to look at some of the wire welders. Some of the good ones are small enough to fit into a Balakbayon box. It was cheaper to send one that way than freight a larger stick welder to the Negros.

The good issue is special wiring is not needed.

 

[trackwelder]

Miller maxstar 150s inverter welder. Can run off 120or 220, I am very happly with mine.

 

[a390st]

I love the Miller Thunderbolt XL. It has been an excellent welder, and was much better than the Lincoln we also had. The Lincoln was fine, but the Miller was just a better welder. Whatever you do, please get an AC/DC welder. There is nothing like welding DCRP. That will change your whole world when it comes to welding.

 

[D KRAGER]

Miller and Hobart are the same company.... Miller is just the industrial brand and hobart is the home owners and lighter duty brand.

Depends on how much you plan on using the welder, an AC/DC would be better, but an AC unit works just fine. AC only unit will be harder to weld thin metal with... keep that in mind.

As for the Hobart welder I've never heard anything bad about them.....

 

[JayL]

Many thanks for all your replies.

What benefit do I get buying an AC / DC stick welder as compared to the AC only?

 

[PAToyota]

DCEP (electrode positive) typically gives you the best penetration. DCEN (electrode negative) has lower penetration and can be used when welding thinner materials so that you don't "blow through" the material. AC typically tries to split the difference but really does neither (penetration or thin stuff) very well.

 

[JayL]

Points noted. tks

 

[Merkava_4]

Many thanks for all your replies.

What benefit do I get buying an AC / DC stick welder as compared to the AC only?

DCRP or direct current reverse polarity:
Means the electricity flows out of the negative terminal on the machine - through the negative ground cable - through the work piece - up through the positive cable and into the electrode - and then back to the machine on the positive terminal.

The advantage is more heat on the electrode for cleaning the steel you're welding on better than DCSP.

 

[PAToyota]

Just to clarify Merkava's statement, DCRP = DCEP and DCSP = DCEN. I prefer to use the EN/EP designation because it tells you how to connect the machine up - something RP (reverse polarity) and SP (straight polarity) really does not tell the beginner.

And "through the negative ground cable" should be reworded to "making the ground cable negative" or similar as DCEN has the negative terminal connected to the electrode and therefore the ground cable is positive - the ground cable is the ground cable and can be positive or negative. A question of semantics, but sort of like "hot water heater" - why would you want to heat hot water?

 

[Merkava_4]

Another way to remember is that the negative side is always the hot side no matter which cable you have hooked up to it. For E7018 rods, you'd hook the ground cable up to the negative terminal.

 

[goodfellow]

Just to clarify Merkava's statement, DCRP = DCEN and DCSP = DCEP.

PA, I think you have the terms reversed. -- Merk has the concept right

DCEN = Straight Polarity
DCEP = Reverse Polarity

 

[Moose-LandTran]

Buy a MIG machine instead, ARC welding is better for repairs out in the field, i'd buy a MIG/TIG machine long before an ARC.

MIG is better for fabrication work and the like.

 

[PAToyota]

PA, I think you have the terms reversed. -- Merk has the concept right

DCEN = Straight Polarity
DCEP = Reverse Polarity

You're right, got those transposed - fixed it. I was attempting to make the point that using the terms that tell whether the electrode is positive or negative helps the beginner figure out which way to hook things up.

 

[goodfellow]

I agree PA, it gets pretty confusing.

To the OP ---

DCEP is used most often in commercial stick welding because the work gets hotter than the electrode. Hence, there is better weld penetration and because the electrode stays cooler, it doesn't burn off as fast (which promotes penetration).

With DCEN the electrode will get hotter. Hence, the electrode will have a faster melt off and the deposit rate will be much faster. This results in a weld that has less penetration because the filler was deposited at a faster rate.

Both methods have merit, but for the average user, set your machine at DCEP and forget it. I have an old Miller Dialarc that has been set at DCEP (Reverse Polarity) for decades -- I don't even think about it anymore.

 

[goodfellow]

Buy a MIG machine instead, ARC welding is better for repairs out in the field, i'd buy a MIG/TIG machine long before an ARC.

MIG is better for fabrication work and the like.

I mostly agree with you Moose. MIG is easier to learn, and once dialed in, a MIG Welder will fare much better for light fabrication work and general automotive repair.

However, in terms of sheer simplicty, cost, and versatility the old fashioned "stick" machine still takes the honors. It won't do light sheet metal, but pretty much anything else from there on can be stick welded. Electrode choices (especially with DC welding) are quite varied. You can even cut plate with a stick welder.

I have a shop full of welding machines, yet the two most often used pieces for general repair are my oxy/acetylene torch and my DC stick welder.

Some of the best looking custom cars I have ever seen were fabricated with a torch and a simple AC arc welder.

 

[Moose-LandTran]

I agree, they can be just as good or better in certain cases and circumstances, it's just my preference.

I can only really weld with oxy-acetylene. When i learned that's all we had in the shop.

 

[a390st]

I mostly agree with you Moose. MIG is easier to learn, and once dialed in, a MIG Welder will fare much better for light fabrication work and general automotive repair.

However, in terms of sheer simplicty, cost, and versatility the old fashioned "stick" machine still takes the honors. It won't do light sheet metal, but pretty much anything else from there on can be stick welded. Electrode choices (especially with DC welding) are quite varied. You can even cut plate with a stick welder.

I have a shop full of welding machines, yet the two most often used pieces for general repair are my oxy/acetylene torch and my DC stick welder.

Some of the best looking custom cars I have ever seen were fabricated with a torch and a simple AC arc welder.

Exactly!

Welding light metal is generally easier with a wire welder, but I have used an awful lot of 1/16" sticks with excellent results on pretty thin stuff. Add to that the ability to do a lot more fabrication work with an arc welder. Also, you can get pretty good rods to weld aluminum nowadays. You can use gouging or cutting rods that do a pretty good job. If you want to weld on a chassis, I much prefer an arc welder. You can weld cast iron, stainless, mild steel, aluminum, and a lot of crazy steels, as well as disimilar metals, all by choosing the right electrode for the job. Heck, you can even weld underwater. Wire welders are excellent for specific functions, but a stick welder is much more versatile. It all depends on whether you need the versatility or are only doing those things a MIG excels at.

 

[JayL]

The plan is actually to purchase a Stick Weld and a Hobart Handler 187 Mig Welding machine. The Stick machine with DC is more expensive than the AC only. In terms of welding range capabilities, don't you think that an AC only Stick weld would be ok since I would have a Mig 187 too?

 

[goodfellow]

The plan is actually to purchase a Stick Weld and a Hobart Handler 187 Mig Welding machine. The Stick machine with DC is more expensive than the AC only. In terms of welding range capabilities, don't you think that an AC only Stick weld would be ok since I would have a Mig 187 too?

That's a good plan Jay. The Hobart MIG will be a workhorse for light duty fabrication work. Also, an AC stick machine is fine for general work with heavier steel. However, it is harder to weld with AC current and you will be limited in application because most of the specialized alloy electrodes work only in DC mode.

That said, I think an AC arc welder is an excellent general purpose tool. I used a Lincoln AC-225 for many years --- and I still have it my shop. Back in the day, an AC welder in a commercial garage was THE tool for welding heavy steel stock, and for heating/brazing certain alloys with a carbon arc torch attachment (can't find carbon arc torches anymore).

DC is nice to have, and the cost difference is worth it; in my opinion. However, since the MIG will do most of your welding, the AC machine will serve you well for welding the occasional heavy material.

 

[trackwelder]

When I stick weld most of the time its with 7018. They make a 7018ac rod but it costs more. I learned on a 225ac tombstone and don't miss it at all. The last time I used ac was on some cast iron. Spend the extra cash on the ac/dc model and you will have many more options in rod selection.

 

[a390st]

I can't tell you enough...get DC.

 

[vssjim]

Try to locate a Lincoln Welders dealer in your area I'm sure there is some one in your area that handles Lincoln.

 

[Merkava_4]

Are you going to be welding any material thicker than 1/4 inch Jay? If not, than just get you a mig welder.

My own personal preference is welding with stick if the material is thick enough.

What's really fun is 7/64" flux cored wire set at 300V and 11 pounds per hour feed speed. NR311 nickel wire.

 

[JayL]

My Bro is getting the Hobart 187 Mig. I am suppose to buy a Hobart Stickmate Welder so we could swap/ borrow if need arise. Initially he will do more welding so he'll keep both. Yes I believe he might need to weld something thick because by January 2009 he is going to build a house which is a 5 floors concrete building. I was just trying to cut my budget on the stick welder. The price difference between an AC & AC/DC welder is around $200 but would not want this savings if overall welding capabilities are short changed. For 200 bucks I could buy some more Gearwrench like the XL Gearbox Ratcheting wrenches and some crowfoots which I have wanted to have but are not high on my purchase list.

Shall I go for the AC/DC welder or the AC only + the Gearwrenches.

tks

 

[Merkava_4]

I would HIGHLY recommend you get a DC stick welder.

 

[JayL]

I would HIGHLY recommend you get a DC stick welder.

I was somehow expecting that you will say that.

 

[speed bump]

I would HIGHLY recommend you get a DC stick welder.

He doesn't really gain any more ability to weld stuff over the AC welder with the Handler 187 unless he wants to weld with exotic rods since the AC/DC machine he is looking at only does 160A DC.

Personally I would tell you to go in with your brother and buy a Handler 210. Then keep your eyes open for a nice used Miller or Lincoln unit that will allow you to be all that is man, electricity and metal.

 

[JayL]

I got this advise from an Irish friend who was a welder in a former life.


The Mig machine.

This is a good machine if using indoors. The machine uses a reel of wire, and Argon gas as a shielding agent ( flux ). A problem arises if using the unit outdoors. If the gas gets blown away from the welding area, the weld will be ****. You can use flux cored wires for ourdoor use, but they tend to be expensive. A Mig unit is easy to use, especially in the horizontal position, and there is very little wasteage. Initial cost would be higher than a stick machine. Hobart is one of the best units available.

The stick machine.

The stick machine is good also, but for different reasons.

It can be used indoors or outdoors, but it requires the stick electrodes to be kept dry, preferably in a heater unit. It is more difficult to weld with a stick machine, and you have to keep stopping to change the electrode, whereas with the Mig, you just keep going.

With the stick machine, you also need to keep a stock of sizes of electrode, depending on what thickness you're welding, whereas with the Mig, you just increase the wire speed.

You will get more wasteage with the stick, as welders tend to start with a new electrode every time, and thus half used rods will be everywhere.

If my choice, I'd go for Mig.

Good luck.