I learned to weld when I was probably 10 to 12 years old watching my dad. Back then in the 50's all he was using was oxy/acetylene. My uncle actually had an acetylene generator ( kinda scary thing, never saw it used). Dad made lot of things with it. Later he got a stick welder. He and I used it a lot. I'm still using stick almost all the time in my home shop. I also have oxy/acetylene but don't use it much. I have used a miller 210 mig but never got comfortable with it. I normally weld steel up to 1/2 " trailers, hitches, towbars, bumpers, and various other projects. I guess what I'm saying is I'm 75 years old and comfortable building things the way I always have. My welds are strong, probably overbuilt, but I've never broke one.
Stick welding
- Thread starter J-BELL
- Start date
MikeinKy
Member
I am 70 years old. I also learned to stick weld back in the 60's. I also trusted stick more than mig. I have a miller 251. I was building a dovetail on a gooseneck trailer, and thought I would try the mig, since it was faster. I cranked up the amps and did the job. The first time I used it, was 350 miles away loading a 15000 lb tractor. I thought that would be a good test. It worked fine and is still good. I trust my mig more than I used to. Still when I have a critical weld, I tend to use my stick welder, especially on thick metal, 1/2 in. or more.
jsaw
Well-known member
Stick is my preferred type of welding
Bannik254
Well-known member
I'm most comfortable with TIG welding, it's similar to oxy/acetylene welding, you just get a puddle much faster with a lot less heat going into the part.
Stick welding is fine with new electrodes held in proper heated storage, but running decade-old rod on critical repair work is a nightmare.
Stick welding is fine with new electrodes held in proper heated storage, but running decade-old rod on critical repair work is a nightmare.
Stick welding definitely still has a place... Especially for any kind of steel construction work, or in general for anything thick. Tig or Mig/Mag is just not cost effective when you weld thick stuff.
But stick is quite useless for thin sheet metal when compared to mig/mag, and tig is also by far the best for percision welding or welds which need to achieve high engineering (or just visual) standards.
But stick is quite useless for thin sheet metal when compared to mig/mag, and tig is also by far the best for percision welding or welds which need to achieve high engineering (or just visual) standards.
dnschmidt
Well-known member
For thick stuff stick is the easy answer. But, if your serious and have a lot of thick metal welding to do dual shield MIG is every bit as good as 7018 stick. It just takes a far more expensive machine but the quality and speed makes it worth it. The lack of spatter is also a key advantage of dual shield MIG.
I agree with everyone. I don’t weld as much as did in the past so I use what I have and am comfortable with. I can’t really justify the cost of some of the new good equipment. I’m sure that I could TIG weld. It’s great, very much like OXY but with a much better heat source. It makes some great looking welds. Your right about rod choice and storage. I live in the Phoenix area so storage of rods is not as critical as in some cold high humidity areas. I do however keep my rods in air tight rod boxes. Thin metal is a pain with stick, that’s why I avoid it. All my projects are out of steel greater than 1/8 inch.
speed bump
Well-known member
Stick welding has a place as a maintenance welding technique but it is becoming smaller. As a maintenance engineer I can't think of a time where it is a superior process for anything other than convenience/access though. A couple of reasons: stick welding has more stop/starts which are opportunities for slag inclusions. It requires moving in a two planes versus a single plane for wire feed. Not to mention speed and cleanliness (dual shield or spray mig). Disadvantages to wire feed are moving parts, time to switch electrodes, gun access, and it ***** to pack the extra equipment for something that is 2 rods worth of welding.
All that being said, I do find stick welding to be extremely satisfying on a personal level.
All that being said, I do find stick welding to be extremely satisfying on a personal level.
If stick welding works for you, then great. And it still does have its place in a few instances- piping, steel erection, mobile repair, where you need to weld far away from where the welder is located.... But it has been essentially replaced by MIG 30+ ago.
dr_clyde
Well-known member
Eh, for the most part, yes, wire has taken over. Especially in manufacturing.
But stick welding will always be relevant due to its inherent simplicity and low cost. Especially in structural steel and repair work.
We have some pretty state of the art MIG machines in my shop, and we still stick weld a fair amount of things. Sometimes it is cheaper to get filler metal in stick electrode form, perhaps the piece of equipment we're working on is too big to fit inside. Perhaps the portability is a factor, and a Maxstar is far more portable than a wire feed.
If I could only have one welding machine, I would keep my Miller Dynasty 200 DX. Stick and AC/DC tig in one box that is portable, runs on any power and will weld pretty much whatever I need it to.
Wire is faster. But it is NOT cheaper, easier or more effective in every situation.
The nice thing about stick welding is I can switch from rust blasting 6011 to clean and pretty 7018 to hard facing to cast steel in seconds. Not as quick with mig. I was even told by my weld supplier that you're supposed to also swap out the sheathing when switching to certain wires because it'll get contaminated by your previous wire. That said, I still use mig every chance I can. Especially overhead.
mrobins297aaa
Well-known member
At 73 I use a stick when ever I can instead of the mig just because my eyes aren't what they used to be.
In the trade we used a lot of that 6011 rod in the field. We used to call those 6011 welds "Guerrilla welds. ugly but strong as hell"
In the trade we used a lot of that 6011 rod in the field. We used to call those 6011 welds "Guerrilla welds. ugly but strong as hell"
Ricky Joe
Well-known member
I’ll stay with my 1947 Fleet-Arc 180 Lincoln and my 1967 P&H for tig, spot, or stick. Time changing rods is probably not much different than time cleaning tips and changing wire. I do like to mig, but prefer the strength of electrodes.
Mig is great if every one of your projects/repairs can be brought into the shop. Personally I'd rather just stick weld unless I have to do something with sheet metal.
Show me a mig welder with a 200' lead and maybe we can talk.
Show me a mig welder with a 200' lead and maybe we can talk.
Since most of my work is in the shop MIG gets the nod for first choice. I keep a stock of rods, but so seldom use them not relevant. If I need ultimate quality TIG machine gets used. When I had to do outdoor stuff, it was always such a hassle to get power and monster stick welder close enough to the work, PITA. Then, 3 years ago we did a project that needed some 3/16" stainless gasket compression stops welded onto 1" flanges - on equipment that simply could not have the risk of flux of slag getting inside. We had a range of hole plugs made up (inflatable rubber for round, magnets sewn into welding welding fabric rectangular ones) and all 20' or so in the air. I bought a 211 Miller for the job and left the shielding gas on the ground with a long hose. All I can say is these new rectifier welders change the game for portability of MIG in a HUGE way (pun intended). I think a Miller Multimatic is in my near future.
txvwnut
Well-known member
I find myself stick welding more now when its outside of the shop. I made up and extension cord so I could get the mig unit close to anything that needed to be done but rolling the welder bottle and all across a gravel or grassy area is actually not fun at all. So now that I have a few inverter tig/stick units I just grab one of those carry it to where the work needs to be done and get to it.
The stick welder sees very limited use theses days……….sits near the worm drive saw, 1/2 air impact, corded drill, cutting torch, corded sawsall …………all replaced with the alternatives. All too good to throw away and have little value in the market place.
dr_clyde
Well-known member
I mean, suitcase wire feeders exist.
Industry has figured out how to wire weld in the field.
It's not as affordable or simple as a stick whip, but it for sure is a thing.
You can run a suitcase off an engine drive almost as easily as a stick electrode.
The small inverter MIGs are damn portable, the Miller Multimatic 200 or the Lincoln equivalent will mig weld pretty much anywhere you can get power. I have some small medical oxygen size cylinders that we use for portable MIG or TIG.
I feel like the elements have more to do with MIGs limitations than the portability aspect. Unless you're running innershield on a structural job or something.
dr_clyde
Well-known member
We ran a job a few months back welding high manganese steel for a sandblasting machine. The parts needed to be welded with a hardfacing type rod due to the manganese content of the steel and the abrasive environment they are in. We used Lincoln Wearshield stick electrodes.
I couldn't source a wire for this that was in any way economical. We needed about 20 pounds of rod, and the smallest spools I could buy of wire were 50lb spools in 5/64" diameter wire. Lincoln Wearshield is about $12/pound, so that extra 30 pounds would have cost me an extra $360 bucks. Not to mention, my wire welders don't have consumables for over 1/16" wire. We would have needed new drive rolls, liners, tips, the works. 5/64" wire is BIG, especially for the parts we were welding, which were 1/2" and 3/8" plates.
Stick welding is sometimes not only the best option but often the cheapest and most economical way to run a job.
I couldn't source a wire for this that was in any way economical. We needed about 20 pounds of rod, and the smallest spools I could buy of wire were 50lb spools in 5/64" diameter wire. Lincoln Wearshield is about $12/pound, so that extra 30 pounds would have cost me an extra $360 bucks. Not to mention, my wire welders don't have consumables for over 1/16" wire. We would have needed new drive rolls, liners, tips, the works. 5/64" wire is BIG, especially for the parts we were welding, which were 1/2" and 3/8" plates.
Stick welding is sometimes not only the best option but often the cheapest and most economical way to run a job.
I'll admit I've never been around an inverter mig. Would be a lot more portable.
I just love the freedom of a stick welder with some lead.
zmotorsports
ALLIANCE MEMBER
I too learned to stick weld (SMAW) from my dad when I was around 12 years old on the farm. I had never seen a MIG or TIG until I started working as an industrial maintenance mechanic at the ripe ole' age of 19. That was back in 1988. From there my love of fabricating took off and I dove deep into the world of MIG (GMAW) and TIG (GTAW) and haven't looked back. I still have stick (SMAW) capabilities at my home shop and do use it occasionally but rarely. There are also a few times when we still stick weld at work and I will conduct a small training opportunity with some of the younger new mechanics who have not been exposed to it.
I feel it still has its place in the world although less than several decades ago.
I feel it still has its place in the world although less than several decades ago.
PugetDude
ALLIANCE MEMBER
Started welding 40 years ago with a Lincoln buzz-box running 7018, gave it to my flight instructor when I moved over to FCAW with a little Lincoln Weld-Pak, got tired of dealing with slag and 110V performance, so I moved up to MIG with a Miller 211. Really like this welder.
A few weeks ago I wanted to run stick again for an outdoor project, bought a little 8-lb 160 amp inverter machine for $129 on Amazon and was absolutely blown away by how well it runs 3/32 6013. It really runs a great bead. However, unlike the old Lincoln tombstone, you can't run it cranked all the way up to 225 amps and use old, crumbly wet rod as a cutting torch...
A few weeks ago I wanted to run stick again for an outdoor project, bought a little 8-lb 160 amp inverter machine for $129 on Amazon and was absolutely blown away by how well it runs 3/32 6013. It really runs a great bead. However, unlike the old Lincoln tombstone, you can't run it cranked all the way up to 225 amps and use old, crumbly wet rod as a cutting torch...
Had a Miller 225 Thunderbolt SW back in the '80s. I practiced on a badly bent/stripped Bultaco frame, and various stock until I was pretty comfortable with it. Selecting the proper amp settings and using the proper rods, of course helps a bunch. Case in point was when I made a rolling cart for the SW using bed frame angle iron but had problems welding it until a welder friend gave me the proper rod type (the Bultaco frame was Cro Mo that did much better if you used the right rod as well). That was a good little welder that didn't take up much space. Sold it long ago, but I've been thinking about getting something along lines of PugetDude's suggestion (160a invtr).