Still think Wiha makes quality tools?

[Jicle]

It's not 2010 anymore. Wiha has become another big box tool brand making cheap tools in Vietnam, China, etc. It pains me to see people buying Wiha and considering it a quality upgrade. I'm not familiar with exact German requirements, but I read once that even if a small portion of the tool assembly is finished in Germany, they get the Made in Germany label?

These wiha bits are being used for the assembly of industrial control panels and modules. Non impact obviously, and not exactly high quantity or abuse going on that I am aware of. I have other examples of a #2 phillips screwdriver deforming from working with 3D printers with maybe four 304 Stainless phillips screws in each unit. The driver was rendered useless after 2 weeks.

If you like German made tools, and you want quality long lasting tools, dont support this company. There are many many others which are miles ahead of Wiha in every way.

 

[Steve_P]

I think that Wiha is clear about COO- they've been listing Vietnam for years on the packaging, unless something has changed.

All of my Wiha bits and drivers are made in Germany and are awesome. Obviously, they can ship the same steel to Vietnam and make them there at a tiny fraction of the cost of making them in Germany, and still be equal quality. Labor rates in Vietnam are 10-15% of what they are in Germany. I'm not saying they are equal quality, maybe the Vietnam ones are junk, and I'd be surprised, but the COO being Vietnam doesn't necessarily mean it's junk.

Saying that, if Wera is the same cost, and made in Czech Republic, then I'd go with Wera.

 

[CHI_Tool&Die]

Most of the big German manufacturers have moved operations overseas or developed a budget-minded imported sub-brand. I like my Wiha German-made stuff but it’s a bit of a pain to constantly check COO when purchasing their stuff. Bits though are one of those things that I burn through regularly so I don’t really fret on COO but on price per unit.

 

[4xdog]

...dont support this company...

Have you contacted Wiha and given them a chance to address your durability issues? Seems like that's only fair before you make a blanket statement on a forum to avoid the company.

 

[ace10]

Wiha is perfectly clear about COO.

Not sure what the OP is going on about. My Wiha micro/precision tool are German made and priced accordingly.
Wiha wrenches, made in Taiwan, are well made and priced like Asian made tools.

Two out of five posts from a brand new GJ account are bitching about Wiha... sounds fishy.

 

[ace10]

Slotted / Flathead Tools

www.wihatools.com

Websites states that they're made in Germany.

Wiha premium bits - exact fit precision machined
Universal fit for all standard bit holders & power tools
Wiha special chrome-vanadium-molybdenum tool steel
Through hardened for best wear resistance

Priced at 2.88 per in quantities of 10


Curiously, their impact-rated bits are made in Vietnam.

 

[1982fxr]

Someone can correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe the US has some of the strictest laws pertaining to this in the world.

I have read that in comparison Germany is very loose with their coo laws.

 

[slowtwitch73]

Send me all your Wiha tools...

 

[JradM]

I think it's got to be a tool-by-tool determination. It might not all be the highest grade, but it's not all junk either.

I recently bought a pair of the Wiha "BiCut" diagonal cutters. They seem very nice to me and are made in Taiwan from what I recall. Speaking of which, last week I bought a set of Proto spark plug sockets - also made in Taiwan and they are every bit as good as I hoped.

Wiha definitely doesn't mean "made in Germany" anymore, but they still make some very nice stuff.

 

[KnurledNut]

@Jicle
Likely nothing wrong with them.
The bits appear to be breaking.
You may need a lower hardness.
Apex offers three levels of heat treatment and would probably do a special batch for that application if requested.

 

[Sumboodie]

I think it's got to be a tool-by-tool determination. It might not all be the highest grade, but it's not all junk either.

I recently bought a pair of the Wiha "BiCut" diagonal cutters. They seem very nice to me and are made in Taiwan from what I recall. Speaking of which, last week I bought a set of Proto spark plug sockets - also made in Taiwan and they are every bit as good as I hoped.

Wiha definitely doesn't mean "made in Germany" anymore, but they still make some very nice stuff.

Agreed.

We had horrible luck with Snap on hex bits at work and switched to Bondhus with much better results.

I mentioned that once here and was basically called an idiot for "thinking" Snap On could be a lesser tool.

 

[Sumboodie]

Someone erased my post. Good job communist Garage Journal.

I had an entire thread erased yesterday. Not even a courtesy message saying such.
No idea why even. Was ONE person.of several dozen that was being an *******.

 

[BTL-A4]

Did you buy these bits on Amazon? They don't check for fakes, so it's possible you could've got an imposter.

 

[Stobal]

If you click on the bit sizes themselves it states COO is Vietnam. I am not sure why they haven’t updated that first page with the bit listings. I have had pretty good luck with both German and non German Wiha products but I agree it should be clear what your buying. I was also disappointed in the “retail price” listed for their wrench sets currently. It’s a hugely inflated number.

 

[Dave455]

I think the perception of many European firms varies depending on where you are.

Here in the U.K. Wiha was never viewed as “top end”. They made “good“ quality tools, perfectly acceptable, but not “top end”. The German made screwdriver bits were quite decent.

Sadly, the word I used was “made” - past tense. I think they still make some decent tools. I saw a fairly recent set of their screwdrivers that seemed to be decent and I think was German made, but only time will tell.

Their pliers were made in the far east from the start. Apparently they were o.k, but they were the same money as Knipex for me, so that wasn’t happening. The screwdriver line got “rationalised”, which meant that the higher quality tools (such as the acetate handles) were dropped, and we know that screwdriver bit’s were produced in Vietnam.

Personally, when I see a pile of broken bits like the O.P’s, I consider that totally unacceptable.

I tend to use bits by PB Swiss (the best) or Wera (Czech) and am very happy with both. I have some U.S. made Zephyr too, which are also top end. I probably wouldn’t go cheaper on bits!

 

[KnurledNut]

From a recent order:

 

[DerekV]

From a recent order:

“German formulated”…that’s a new one for me!

FWIW, I’ve had a Vietnamese Wiha long TP Torx power bit set for a few years now and the fastener fitment and overall quality is excellent. I’ve even needed to use the T25 on some really recessed deck screws a few times with my M18 Fuel impact driver and it’s taken it. Stuff like that is a last resort but nevertheless I’ve been really happy with this bit set.

 

[M635_Guy]

Not sure what the OP is going on about. My Wiha micro/precision tool are German made and priced accordingly.
Wiha wrenches, made in Taiwan, are well made and priced like Asian made tools.

Two out of five posts from a brand new GJ account are bitching about Wiha... sounds fishy.

Agree. I've got a variety of Wiha stuff and I'm very happy with all of it.

Send me all your Wiha tools...

No kidding.

 

[dnschmidt]

I don't give a **** where they are made the only concern is are they as good as the German made ones? That's all that matters. Milwaukee makes 99% of their stuff in China and it's great. Machine tools make tools. Machine tools don't care where in the world they are located. If the quality control is there COO is irrelevant.

 

[Jicle]

Send me all your Wiha tools...

I do not own any wiha tools anymore besides a long bit holding screwdriver I bought some years ago. Sorry.

Personally, when I see a pile of broken bits like the O.P’s, I consider that totally unacceptable.

I tend to use bits by PB Swiss (the best) or Wera (Czech) and am very happy with both. I have some U.S. made Zephyr too, which are also top end. I probably wouldn’t go cheaper on bits!

I have a small box full of PB swiss, Zephyr, and maybe one or two wiha bits. People love to consider bits as disposable, however I have never broke or deformed any of my PB swiss bits. Even the T6 zephyr bit is in good shape, and that sees daily use. Previous company I worked for went through countless t6 wiha bits.
PB swiss and Zephyr bits are not expensive either especially for the durability and quality you get. So the "PB Swiss is too expensive" excuse doesn't work here.

Also, these are not my bits, they are being bought by the company, and used by other employees.

 

[BombShelter]

It's easy to dismiss the bits but what is your process? How are you breaking bits during assembly, that seems really odd and who still uses slotted fasteners?

Wiha makes some great stuff and some is ok, I've got several of the tiny bit sets for electronics and never had a problem, I don't think I'll dump the brand because the slotted bits stink, in my experience most brands of slotted and philips are crappy.

Didn't Project Farm do a comparision test on these?

 

[Steve_P]

Dunno, but I'm skeptical that the Vietnam made Wiha bits are junk. Maybe they are, but they've been making them there for several years, and this is the first complaint I've seen here on them. I don't have a problem buying something made in Vietnam as long as the price reflects that; if Wera that's made in Czech Republic is the same quality and price as Wiha from Vietnam, then I will go with Wera.

As far as COO, I prefer to spend my $ in countries that are not authoritarian ruled if possible. But there is a vocal minority here that has selective amnesia on COO: Chinese vises are junk, but somehow Chinese jack stands are fine; China bench grinders are junk, but Chinese angle grinders/cordless tools are great.....

 

[Grokew]

From a recent order:

Packaging made in Germany?

 

[Schurkey]

Anyone besides me think it's fishy that Bondhus and Wiha are both based out of the same unlikely city? About half a mile apart, two miles driving distance.

Hex End Power Bits

bondhus.com

Bondhus Corporation • 1400 E. Broadway • P.O. Box 660 • Monticello, Minnesota 55362

Slotted / Flathead Tools

www.wihatools.com

1348 Dundas Circle, Monticello, MN 55362

 

[larry_g]

Anyone besides me think it's fishy that Bondhus and Wiha are both based out of the same unlikely city? About half a mile apart, two miles driving distance.

Hex End Power Bits

bondhus.com

Bondhus Corporation • 1400 E. Broadway • P.O. Box 660 • Monticello, Minnesota 55362

Slotted / Flathead Tools

www.wihatools.com

1348 Dundas Circle, Monticello, MN 55362

Do you find it fishy that Silicon Valley is based around Palo Alto, California and Stanford University?

lg
no neat sig line

 

[rancherbill]

...but I read once that even if a small portion of the tool assembly is finished in Germany, they get the Made in Germany label?

I find that hard to believe. The European Union (EU) is pretty finnicky about stuff like that.

 

[Schurkey]

Do you find it fishy that Silicon Valley is based around Palo Alto, California and Stanford University?

Of course not. A premier University supporting high-tech industry with each cross-pollinating the other is entirely reasonable. Heck, it's not just reasonable, it's symbiotic and therefore predictable.

Two companies both big into making driver "bits" in an otherwise nothin'-special city? What could possibly bring Wiha into the same town as a major "bit" competitor, that doesn't involve secret associations, under-the-table dealings, or industrial espionage? Freak chance? Not damn likely. I'd like to know WHO those two companies have in common.

 

[larry_g]

Many a company started by an ex employee who moved down the street and started something similar. It's just the way business is.

lg
no neat sig line

 

[Bubba Fett]

Of course not. A premier University supporting high-tech industry with each cross-pollinating the other is entirely reasonable. Heck, it's not just reasonable, it's predictable.

Two companies both big into making driver "bits" in an otherwise nothin'-special city? What could possibly bring Wiha into the same town as a major "bit" competitor, that doesn't involve secret associations, under-the-table dealings, or industrial espionage? Freak chance? Not damn likely. I'd like to know WHO those two companies have in common.

More than likely that city offered a very low tax rate to entice companies to go there. Plus there may be a steel supplier there that both companies use. It is entirely possible for one city to have two manufacturing companies, after all.

 

[egdede]

There is also a MA tech presence (hmmm....a few good colleges in Boston, eh?).

 

[jay70]

I have some Wiha flush cuts, they say Germany on them but the cardboard package they were attached to said made in Vietnam, work fine for me anyway

 

[Firebrick43]

Anyone besides me think it's fishy that Bondhus and Wiha are both based out of the same unlikely city? About half a mile apart, two miles driving distance.

Multiple machine tool builders in rockford illinois, Cat/komatsu peoria ill, big three detriot, ridge carbide and forrest in lyndhurst/clifton NJ(ridge is not in KS), Henry filters and HR Black filters in bowling green oh.

List goes on and on. And as Larry G said, its usually an engineer or similar that leaves one company and starts another in the same town. Or just to snipe their competitors employees.

 

[Max]

Do you find it fishy that Silicon Valley is based around Palo Alto, California and Stanford University?

lg
no neat sig line

It might be fishy if what you said is true. Silicon Valley is based around Santa Clara, Sunnyvale, Mountain View, and San Jose. Sure, there is high tech in Palo Alto and some companies like HP started there. But Palo Alto would be seen as the center only by a Stanford grad. It’s kind of like those articles that talk about SF as the center of silicon valley….

BTW, you’re ignoring the contributions from Cal, Santa Clara U, SJSU, UCSC and many more.

 

[M635_Guy]

More than likely that city offered a very low tax rate to entice companies to go there. Plus there may be a steel supplier there that both companies use. It is entirely possible for one city to have two manufacturing companies, after all.

This. Probably there's a common supplier, maybe a special tax zone offered by the state in a particular area, etc.

Heck in Ohio there are two or three companies that make most of the artificial knees/etc. in North Amercia with 5-10 miles of each other. Stuff like that happens all the time.

 

[larry_g]

It might be fishy if what you said is true. Silicon Valley is based around Santa Clara, Sunnyvale, Mountain View, and San Jose. Sure, there is high tech in Palo Alto and some companies like HP started there. But Palo Alto would be seen as the center only by a Stanford grad. It’s kind of like those articles that talk about SF as the center of silicon valley….

BTW, you’re ignoring the contributions from Cal, Santa Clara U, SJSU, UCSC and many more.

Me thinks you missed the point I was making. Pick whatever business you like and you will find hives of those businesses in an area. Silicon valley is known for electronics, so is Austin Texas area. The great lakes area for auto manufacturing, New York has its financial district. Nothing necessarily nefarious here that one town has two businesses in the same business.

lg
no neat sigline

 

[Max]

Me thinks you missed the point I was making. Pick whatever business you like and you will find hives of those businesses in an area. Silicon valley is known for electronics, so is Austin Texas area. The great lakes area for auto manufacturing, New York has its financial district. Nothing necessarily nefarious here that one town has two businesses in the same business.

lg
no neat sigline

I got your point. I just didn’t like the bad example.

 

[gatewaysysop]

I don't have many Wiha bits, except for a security bit set and those have been fine for me (but were purchased quite a ways back). The Wiha torx drivers have not failed me either, and are second to none for fit and finish and the quality of the tips.

Like all brands, perhaps there are stinkers in the mix or products that just don't make the grade, and it's possible the OP has found it for Wiha. Without knowing more about the circumstances of the failure, it's hard to make a subject assessment purely based on a bucket full of broken bits. Sorry to say but one data point is worth what you paid for it. Even if you apply a generous weighting, given the volume of broken bits, it's still one data point, from one person, about one type of tool. Is it an interesting observation? Absolutely, but "an" observation, singular, is rarely persuasive on its own, and certainly not sufficient to justify bold claims of inferior quality about an entire brand. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence, not a photo of broken bits and assurance that they were not abused from a person we have no compelling reason to believe and whose motives are clearly suspect.

 

[CHI_Tool&Die]

Me thinks you missed the point I was making. Pick whatever business you like and you will find hives of those businesses in an area. Silicon valley is known for electronics, so is Austin Texas area. The great lakes area for auto manufacturing, New York has its financial district. Nothing necessarily nefarious here that one town has two businesses in the same business.

lg
no neat sigline

It’s funny when competitors that legitimately can’t stand one another move to the same location. An example, my parent company has been in its location forever. Our direct competition moved their NA ops just down the street just before Covid happened. There is zero cooperation and total bloodlust on both our parts from a really bad situation some years back. I have no idea why they moved there other than to just antagonize the situation more because I don’t even think we use the same suppliers due to this adversarial nature.

 

[Iridium rand]

I think it's got to be a tool-by-tool determination. It might not all be the highest grade, but it's not all junk either.

I recently bought a pair of the Wiha "BiCut" diagonal cutters. They seem very nice to me and are made in Taiwan from what I recall. Speaking of which, last week I bought a set of Proto spark plug sockets - also made in Taiwan and they are every bit as good as I hoped.

Wiha definitely doesn't mean "made in Germany" anymore, but they still make some very nice stuff.

The bicuts are great aren’t they? So nice to have the high leverage cutting and wide jaw opening in a single tool

 

[Iridium rand]

In any case bits (especially philips and flathead) are the prime example of not a priority for most companies and literally the last thing one should be judged off of, every wiha product I’ve ever used was great (including the one or two I’ve broken, both flathead micro screwdrivers of course) and most others seem to have the same experience, they’re also exceptionally transparent about COO so they weren’t exactly fooling people into thinking everything was german made

also have you used other brands the same way and not had any break?