Strange portable power system request

[jsharpphoto]

Im a commercial photographer. I shoot 99% of my projects on location, and a fair bit of those are outdoors. I've been running battery packs to power my lighting systems and I've kind of out-grown their practicality. My current system is comprised of a medium sized 12v motorcycle battery, and a 300w pure sine wave inverter, with a built in trickle charger. I charge them before the shoot, I shoot, they die half way through, then I switch to a new battery.

What I would like to use is a combination of an upgraded version of this, with a gas powered generator. The purpose of the generator would be either to recharge the battery system in between shots/setups, or under emergency circumstances, shoot directly off the generators. I say "emergency circumstances" because running a generator during a shoot is almost impossible. They're either too loud that we can't communicate with the models, or we're shooting video and even the quietest generators get picked up by the boom mics.

So i'm thinking of something like this...

Maybe something like this already exists? I've been looking for several months, but maybe i'm not using the right search terms. If not, and I have to assemble this thing, are there any problems running a battery charger off of a generator?

I'm open to ideas.

 

[Rookie2]

no. but you have a great charger on your car or van that can be used.

Honda :
http://www.powerequipmentdirect.com/Honda-EU1000IKC-Portable-Generator/p6548.html

 

[Backpack Hunter]

You can do it, might recommend a battery charge regulator, but it can be done that way. Honda makes a pretty quiet generator.

 

[paranoid56]

edit, i am dumb, its right in the title that it needs to be portable lol

does it need to be portable? wile not the same as yours, but in my truck i run a extra deep cycle full size car battery to power my arb fridge when camping. its all hooked up to a acr switch setup so it auto charges and disconnects automatically. i am planning on adding a large solar panel to keep it topped off when camping too

 

[G_P]

Could you upgrade to a larger battery or do you need the light weight of the motorcycle batt? Or a long extension cord so you can run the inverter directly off your running car?
The Honda generators are also an option as they are very quiet. Combine a Honda genny with a long extension cord and you should be able to get it far enough away. Put the genny next to a car and use the car to bock some of the sound.

Or try a lithium battery. Much lighter weight, but at a very very steep price.

http://www.jegs.com/p/Lithium-Pros/Lithium-Pros-12-Volt-Lithium-Batteries/1770167/10002/-1

 

[rlitman]

...or we're shooting video and even the quietest generators get picked up by the boom mics...

Every TV and movie shoot I've seen has been run off generators (except in studio work). Though they generally use trailer mounted generators with critical mufflers, set around the corner of the block. But those generators are significantly louder than my Honda 1000W, which has a true sinewave inverter output. Put that on a 100' extension cord with the exhaust facing away (or better yet, place it behind a solid object), and the sound is not an issue.

Now if you want something that can run off of battery or generator, and switch seamlessly (so the system doesn't need to be shut while re-arranging wires to switch between battery/generator), I've got an idea.

Get a solar charge controller and an inverter. Run your power off the inverter, powered off the batteries, and use the UNREGULATED 12V output of a Honda EU1000i to charge the batteries through the charge controller (eco-throttle off). Do NOT directly plug that 12V output to the batteries or it will fry them.

 

[MoonRise]

They're either too loud that we can't communicate with the models, or we're shooting video and even the quietest generators get picked up by the boom mics.

A 'small' portable Honda EU (or similar) inverter generator can be amazingly quiet.

So quit, that I literally almost tripped over one that was powering some outdoor floodlights a farmer had set up in a field as the gathering/starting point for a corn maze done at night.

Granted, there were probably 20-30 under 10 year old kids running around, but I almost tripped over the running generator.

Put a 50 or 100 ft extension cord off that type of generator, maybe some 'baffle' panels to further block direct sound (exhaust and intake noises), and I will state that you would not even have to raise your voice at all to be heard over the running generator.

Note that the Honda EU-series generators are not inexpensive though.

For the cost of even one small EU generator, you could buy probably 5-10 deep cycle marine batteries and a small cart/handtruck to haul them around.

If your current (no pun intended) typical location shoot 'uses up' two motorcycle batteries running the lighting, get two or three or four larger capacity deep cycle batteries and some cabling to run them in parallel. You will then be drawing less amperage from each individual battery and will not have to stop halfway through the photoshoot to swap anything.

When the photoshoot is done, pack up everything and recharge the batteries back at home or studio. Done. No fuel to run a generator, no generator noise at all, no exhaust fumes or heat/sparks to deal with at all (possible location permit issues, etc).

More than one way to get your task done. Your call as to which approach you want to take.

 

[themiller]

Honda eu1000i and a 100ft extension cord.

Motorcycle battery capacity is tiny (probably 3-10ah) in comparison to a small deep cycle battery (40-80ah)I think you'd be served very well by simply building a rolling cart with 1 or 2 deep cycle batteries and your inverter all mounted on it. OR you can buy a prepackaged solution on Amazon - http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B0000...y+inverter&dpPl=1&dpID=41EJTDEPV2L&ref=plSrch

 

[jsharpphoto]

I guess I need to familiarize myself with more modern generators. Then re-evaluate my plan. Thanks guys. This is why I asked.

 

[MikeF2316]

Have you thought of computer equipment UPSes? The have the battery, charger and sine wave inverter all in one case. At least the better ones have a pure sine wave. Plus you have the option to add additional battery packs.

 

[theoldwizard1]

I've been running battery packs to power my lighting systems and I've kind of out-grown their practicality. My current system is comprised of a medium sized 12v motorcycle battery, and a 300w pure sine wave inverter, with a built in trickle charger. I charge them before the shoot, I shoot, they die half way through, then I switch to a new battery.

So i'm thinking of something like this...

Maybe something like this already exists? I've been looking for several months ...

Have you thought of computer equipment UPSes? The have the battery, charger and sine wave inverter all in one case. At least the better ones have a pure sine wave. Plus you have the option to add additional battery packs.

Mike is on the right track ! First I need to understand your equipment power needs better. I have a god buddy who is a semi-pro, but shots underwater, so everything has its own battery pack, including the strobe (2 good sized ones). He swap batteries every time he swap tanks so he has lot of spares.

Are you are using "studio" strobe/light or other equipment that runs off of 120V or to do want this portable power to be in you vehicle recharging various battery packs ?

A computer Uninterruptable Power Supply (UPS) IS a good solution, but there are a few "gotchas" you have to watch out for.

• Make sure the UPS is a "pure sine wave". More money, but you know this is what you need.
• The "ratings" are not exactly "truthful". A 300 is usually 300VA which is NOT 300W. You probably want a 600W or better yet 1000W.
• Computer UPS are designed with the assumption that when the power goes out it will only have to run off of the battery for 10-15 because either power will come back on or the equipment will be turned off. Even if you add a couple deep cycle batteries, the inverter section will likely overheat if you are running at more than 50% rated power.
• Another issue with UPS is battery sizing and charging. Many of them you just can't add additional batteries.

 

[thaxboyd]

I didn't read through this whole thread but would something that Goal Zero makes be of use?

 

[theoldwizard1]

The top quality inverter-chargers are much larger, like 2000VA and above, such as the Outback Power FX2012MT

If you want to rig it up yourself, check online, specially YouTube, for various reviews on inverters. Expect to need 2 - 12v deep cycle batteries.

If you are even more of a hands on guy, some simple medication of 5-10 UPS can turn them into nice inverters.

UPS to Inverter Conversion Part 9
UPS to Inverter Conversion Part 10

 

[Spareparts]

We were racing R/C cars, sometimes 7 different cars during the day. All we ever had was Group 31 deep cycle batteries ( 2 but only had 1 in use at a time) at least 4 battery chargers running all the time, soldering gun, couple small cooling fans and a box fan for the wife. Started at 9:30 am and went to 3m and most of the time 1 batt. lasted all day. The Group 31 are heavy in weight but has a lot or reserve. We ran a 1200 watt inverter off the batt for the power. And the deep cycle batteries are quiet and require no gas to run them, granted the Honda Gen sets are quiet they do require maint and fuel, the batt. just needs charged and we generally got 3-4 yrs service out of them.

 

[joecon]

look into enersys powersafe battery like the sbs 40 they make bigger ones and smaller
ones and you can put more then one together to make any size you need.

 

[jsharpphoto]

my strobe equipment is studio strobe gear, running on 120v. It's rated in watt-seconds, not watts, exactly. That's what it outputs in a single flash, not it's constant draw. As I understand it, it's a fill and dump capacitor situation.

 

[theoldwizard1]

Build yourself a 2 compartment box out of plywood (3/4" for the base and 1/2" for sides and top).

One compartment will be for batteries (some RVers have switched to 2 6v golf cart batteries) and charger. You need a "sealed" charger so that gases from the battery won't ruin it. A sealed Battery Tender would be good, but it will take at least 12 hours to re-charge your battery, Also that compartment need good ventilation.

The second compartment will be for the converter and other electronics. You may have to install a fan in this compartment. This compartment should have multiple duplex outlets (I would suggest 4 - duplex outlets).

Inlet power (from your generator) should be via a male receptacle recessed into the side in the second compartment.

Because this thing is going to be heavy, you may want to "stack" the compartments with the battery on the bottom. Then you can strap it to a 2 wheel hand cart for easy moving.

Inside the second compartment, you can mount the inverter and a 120V DPDT relay. The relay is used to automatically switch to external power when it is applied.

The 120V external feed should be directly wired to the battery charger, the relay's coil and to one set of relay's input contact's. The other set of the relay's input contacts should be wired to the output of the inverter. The relay's common/output contacts are wired to the duplex outlets. All grounds are tied together.

 

[jsharpphoto]

Build yourself a 2 compartment box out of plywood (3/4" for the base and 1/2" for sides and top).

One compartment will be for batteries (some RVers have switched to 2 6v golf cart batteries) and charger. You need a "sealed" charger so that gases from the battery won't ruin it. A sealed Battery Tender would be good, but it will take at least 12 hours to re-charge your battery, Also that compartment need good ventilation.

The second compartment will be for the converter and other electronics. You may have to install a fan in this compartment. This compartment should have multiple duplex outlets (I would suggest 4 - duplex outlets).

Inlet power (from your generator) should be via a male receptacle recessed into the side in the second compartment.

Because this thing is going to be heavy, you may want to "stack" the compartments with the battery on the bottom. Then you can strap it to a 2 wheel hand cart for easy moving.

Inside the second compartment, you can mount the inverter and a 120V DPDT relay. The relay is used to automatically switch to external power when it is applied.

The 120V external feed should be directly wired to the battery charger, the relay's coil and to one set of relay's input contact's. The other set of the relay's input contacts should be wired to the output of the inverter. The relay's common/output contacts are wired to the duplex outlets. All grounds are tied together.

Thanks man. That's a big help!

 

[theoldwizard1]

Thanks man. That's a big help!

For all day shooting, you are still going to need a small generator, unless you are going to get fancy and make an addon battery box. The Honda EU2000 is still the Cadillac of that class, but there are a few other alternatives (Yamaha, Champion, ...) for much less money.

I have not heard much positive about the HF 2 stroke generator other than it is cheap.

Also, remember that small battery chargers could take more than 24 hours to fully charge a set of deep discharge batteries, so you might want something larger than a Battery Tender.

A pair of golf cart batteries is a good choice and can be purchased locally. If you want a pair of bigger (and more expensive) batteries, check out the Trojan L16RE-B. At 120 lbs EACH, a pair these (they are 6V batteries) have a 20 hour discharge rate of 370A.

 

[Morrison]

Look at the noco gen 2 battery chargers for a faster high quality charger. I have it hooked up to my two deep cycle batteries, it charges at 10 amps a channel. You don't want the $89 hf generator . it's dirty power, pretty weak and loud.

 

[Lassen Forge]

I know a commercial photographer that runs his location stuff off either an EU1000 or, if there's a need for more power, he'll use his EU2000 instead. Works good enough to shoot commercial video, is quiet to begin with, and if he needs it more quiet he has an insulated "box" that goes around it, and is cheap on fuel.

He's been using this set up for over 10 years now, no hiccups and no problems.

 

[Gotcha640]

People have mentioned hand carts, but if you want really big power and not have to carry it, and you intend to make money off the thing, you could get a van or truck. Solid platform for a couple hundred pounds of batteries (if you need), space for all the equipment chargers you could want, and depending on the vehicle, you could get to some nice remote spots and charge a premium.

Depending on how long you'd be gone, you could haul a generator along to recharge the battery bank, and only run it when not shooting. There's a guy (kombilife.com) that's driving Argentina to Alaska and he has enough batteries and a solar panel that he can edit videos and write blogs for three days of no sun. In an old vw bus.

 

[theoldwizard1]

Look at the noco gen 2 battery chargers for a faster high quality charger. I have it hooked up to my two deep cycle batteries, it charges at 10 amps a channel.

you don't really need a 2 channel battery charger, although it is not a bad idea.

Noco also sells a line of battery boxes, including ones that will hold 2 golf cart cart batteries or even 2 L16RE.

 

[Morrison]

I just mentioned that one because I use two deep in series. They do have others but if you have multiple batteries the two chanel works well

 

[rslaback]

This doesn't solve your generator problem but wouldn't it be easier to run your batteries in parallel instead of swapping them out?

 

[HOTFR8]

Im a commercial photographer. I shoot 99% of my projects on location, and a fair bit of those are outdoors. I've been running battery packs to power my lighting systems and I've kind of out-grown their practicality. My current system is comprised of a medium sized 12v motorcycle battery, and a 300w pure sine wave inverter, with a built in trickle charger. I charge them before the shoot, I shoot, they die half way through, then I switch to a new battery.

What I would like to use is a combination of an upgraded version of this, with a gas powered generator. The purpose of the generator would be either to recharge the battery system in between shots/setups, or under emergency circumstances, shoot directly off the generators. I say "emergency circumstances" because running a generator during a shoot is almost impossible. They're either too loud that we can't communicate with the models, or we're shooting video and even the quietest generators get picked up by the boom mics.

So i'm thinking of something like this...

Maybe something like this already exists? I've been looking for several months, but maybe i'm not using the right search terms. If not, and I have to assemble this thing, are there any problems running a battery charger off of a generator?

I'm open to ideas.

I guess I need to familiarize myself with more modern generators. Then re-evaluate my plan. Thanks guys. This is why I asked.

I see nothing wrong with your ideas. Presently my whole office runs the same way. Only difference is I have two Solar Panels backed up by a charger hooked up to my mains power so technically I have a UPS system. I can also add in a gen set if I need to.

A small whisper quiet gen set as others have posted would work well and you can get them with sine wave capability (Yamaha and Honda make them) and that is something you need to consider due to the fact you are working with electronics. A decent solar panel on the roof of a vehicle could also help charge those batteries so what you are intending to do is not impossible and the dual battery system also mentione like in a 4wd is also a great idea as you can charge that via Solar as well.

Some small gen sets even have built in battery chargers.

 

[mopar4wd]

Check out marine battery chargers from Victron Sterling Charles etc they will push out a lot more amps then the auto ones. It will cost you but a Honda 2000 can power a 100 amp 12VDC charger. You can buy a 40-50 amp model at a reasonable cost.Mind you the motorcycle battery won't take all that power so you may want to upgrade to a larger Gel or AGM battery. Basically the higher amp charger will allow you to run the gen for much shorter times. As mentioned you could also add a solar panel to the setup for additional charging. If you not going to monitor the batteries on solar I would suggest a solar charge controller.

 

[dgoetz]

I'll second the recommendation for the Goal Zero products, we used them recently for a system we integrated and they also have solar panel setups to charge the batteries while they are used.

The large system we used (1250wh) can be charged by up to two sources simultaneously, either shore via a laptop type charger and/or solar panels. It can also be charged directly from a 12v source like a car/truck. The 1250 is also pure sine output, don't know about their smaller systems.

 

[jsharpphoto]

I've been shopping the Honda eu generators. I've read some good reviews of the ryobi competitors. They seem to run about 5% louder. Anyone have any experience?

 

[HOTFR8]

Please keep us posted as to what direction you go with this and how you make it all work for you. I am sure others want to know this as well.