strength of ferrules?

[vv111y]

Hi,

I'm planning on making a wine press, but instead of having rigid steel rings for the basket frame, I'd like to use steel cable (wire, rope,...) so that the basket can be rolled up for storage.
I've looked around for info on ferrule strength but so far nothing definitive. I read 'will be stronger than the cable itself' which I find hard to believe.

Q's
- will the ferrules be strong enough?
- how many ferrules needed?
- can I skip the thimbles and just use the ferrules?
- I have a manual swager that goes to 3/16". Can I safely use this to swage 1/4"? 1/4" will likely not be strong enough, but good to know anyways.

Alternative, nylon bands like this: http://www.harborfreight.com/3-inch-x-30-ft-heavy-duty-recovery-strap-67230.html

Inspiration for this is this guys project http://www.winepress.us/forums/index.php?/topic/47766-my-diy-basket-press/?hl=%2Bshop+%2Bpress+%2Bnylon NOTE: looks like the pictures only come up for registered members now. Sorry about that.


thanks for any help.

 

[gte718p]

Hi,

I'm planning on making a wine press, but instead of having rigid steel rings for the basket frame, I'd like to use steel cable (wire, rope,...) so that the basket can be rolled up for storage.
I've looked around for info on ferrule strength but so far nothing definitive. I read 'will be stronger than the cable itself' which I find hard to believe.

Q's
- will the ferrules be strong enough?
- how many ferrules needed?
- can I skip the thimbles and just use the ferrules?
- I have a manual swager that goes to 3/16". Can I safely use this to swage 1/4"? 1/4" will likely not be strong enough, but good to know anyways.

Alternative, nylon bands like this: http://www.harborfreight.com/3-inch-x-30-ft-heavy-duty-recovery-strap-67230.html

Inspiration for this is this guys project http://www.winepress.us/forums/index.php?/topic/47766-my-diy-basket-press/?hl=%2Bshop+%2Bpress+%2Bnylon NOTE: looks like the pictures only come up for registered members now. Sorry about that.


thanks for any help.

A properly sized and crimped/swagged ferrule will be stronger then the cable. Key word is properly. Every rigging job I have ever done the pendants on wire rope have been double swagged for safety, if one were to fail. I can however think of several applications where single are used.

You can skip the thimbles if the fastener is big enough to guarantee that the eye will not deform. for example using a 1 inch bolt in a 2 inch eye the eye will deform and significantly reduce the strength. Thimble also reduces chafing if the eye can move.

Plastic bands need not apply for any application where serious pressure will be applied.

 

[Prototyper]

Crimp sleeves (ferrules), properly swaged, are the industry standard for wire rope termination in high strength applications. No, your swaging tool will not properly apply 1/4" crimp sleeves! I assume you're going to use wood slats, with wire rope hoops to restrain them against the pressing forces? Why not use 3/16", and more of them, as needed? 3/16 7x19 rope has a tensile strength of >4000 lbs. what kind of forces are you actually expecting?

 

[vv111y]

A properly sized and crimped/swagged ferrule will be stronger then the cable. Key word is properly.

So it is true, it's just hard to believe.

You can skip the thimbles if the fastener is big enough to guarantee that the eye will not deform. for example using a 1 inch bolt in a 2 inch eye the eye will deform and significantly reduce the strength. Thimble also reduces chafing if the eye can move.

I was thinking of having no eye or fastener, the cable is formed into a circle and the 2 ends of the cable go through opposite ends of the ferrules. The wood slats are affixed with U-bolts or similar.

Plastic bands need not apply for any application where serious pressure will be applied.

LOL

Crimp sleeves (ferrules), properly swaged, are the industry standard for wire rope termination in high strength applications. No, your swaging tool will not properly apply 1/4" crimp sleeves! I assume you're going to use wood slats, with wire rope hoops to restrain them against the pressing forces? Why not use 3/16", and more of them, as needed? 3/16 7x19 rope has a tensile strength of >4000 lbs. what kind of forces are you actually expecting?

Yes exactly, wood slat basket with wire rope hoops. When done can be flattened and rolled up.
It's that I have a good amount of 1/4", but sounds like I will use 3/16" instead.

Looking again at the winepress thread, the guy says that there really isn't a lot of outward pressure with grape pomice. Probably the same with any other fruit, ie. with apples you turn them into a mash first anyways. He used really weak eye and hook closures, Those steel bands on traditional presses seem overkill.

Thanks for the input guys

 

[aggierailroad]

Just remember - never saddle a dead horse.

Let me know if you need a hint.

 

[kamesama980]

+1 for Yup, they're stronger than the cable when done right/i]

I used to do theatre, a lot of rigging including performer stuff (where an actor was hanging). At some of the workshops we did pull tests (old machine the school had sitting around, meter was broken but the rest still worked) on all sorts of hardware, china generic vs US brands made, shackles, chain, carabiners, cable, etc. properly done crimp will break just before the ferrule every time. Improperly done will slip out at significantly lower tensions. Any decent crimp tool will be adjustable and have a go/no-go gauge (we used Nicopress)

 

[DanarchyCustoms]

Just like what "Kamesama" said nicopress hardware and tools are pretty much the standard of theater. With 3/16" and 1/4" you should be able to get atleast three crimps on each Nico. When you crimp, start from the thimble and work your way out, squeeze all the way, and hold for 5 seconds. That's the way I learned and still do it. Once properly crimped its whatever percentage (100+) stronger than the cable itself.

 

[DanarchyCustoms]

You could also used crosbies to fasten your cable. They are the things that have a Ubolt and a "saddle". Easily available through any hardware store. I think you could get away with using 2 or 3 of them on each cable. We rarely use them at all anymore. If you do go this route don't forget what "aggierailroad" said.