Strengthen Garage ceiling

[illus101086]

Hello my house was built in 1965 or so has a garage which is attached. I was planning on installing some ceiling storage with two 4'x8' safe racks. I realized that my garage does not have ceiling joist which is needed to mount the brackets of the racks. Instead it has rafter ties which are spaced out at 48' oc. I do not belive that these rafter ties would not be able to support the racks and the weight they would carry at least the way are at the moment. So I did some research and found that my one opton would be to add additional rafter ties every 8-16" to strengthen the ceiling which does not out any additional weight upon the ceiling and allow me to install the safe racks. Just wanted to get some input on if this would be correct and opinions on this. Also if I did add the rafter ties would I be nailing them to the rafters? Or the headers?

 

[pattenp]

Rafter ties are not for supporting loads, they are to prevent the spreading of the rafters which causes the roof to sag. So they provide lateral tension. You can add more and use them in effect as ceiling joist but you need to be mindful that you are hanging weight from the roof rafters when doing so. Ceiling joist transfer the load directly to the walls. How far up the rafter from the top wall plate do the rafter ties connect?

Can you post a picture of what you are dealing with?


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[illus101086]

Rafter ties are not for supporting loads, they are to prevent the spreading of the rafters which causes the roof to sag. So they provide lateral tension. You can add more and use them in effect as ceiling joist but you need to be mindful that you are hanging weight from the roof rafters when doing so. Ceiling joist transfer the load directly to the walls. How far up the rafter from the top wall plate do the rafter ties connect?

Can you post a picture of what you are dealing with?


*

The ceiling is exposed and the ties are placed on the top wall plates.Also i forgot to mention i wanted to use 2x6 lumber.

 

[SJR033]

My garage is almost the same thing. Built 1960, ties every 4' & ties on top of wall plate. My ties are 2x6's, I can't what yours are. What I did on the front 4' and back 4' is add more ties, every 16". My roof is 16oc, so that part was easy. Then put some 5/8ply on top. Now I have 2 small "attic" storage spaces.

 

[illus101086]

My garage is almost the same thing. Built 1960, ties every 4' & ties on top of wall plate. My ties are 2x6's, I can't what yours are. What I did on the front 4' and back 4' is add more ties, every 16". My roof is 16oc, so that part was easy. Then put some 5/8ply on top. Now I have 2 small "attic" storage spaces.

My ties are 2x4 and I was planning in doing the same as well which is 2x6 every 16" oc. Only thing is in gonna be using safe rack which are ceiling storage racks.

 

[gscallon]

I recently did something similar to SJR033. I had a roof set-up that looked exactly like yours originally. Mine was 19 feet wide and had a few rafter ties attached to the rafters and the top plate to keep the roof from spreading. The previous owner of the house had added a bunch more 2x6's, on about 24" centers, attached to the rafters and the top plate as well. He had effectively created a bunch of ceiling joists which he then hung drywall from. I wanted to add some light attic storage up there but was aware that the 19' span was a lot to ask of just 2x6s. The span tables didn't make it sound like a good idea. But, my roof was shallow like yours so I'd only be able to put one layer of the tupperware like boxes up there and I wasn't planning on loading it with heavy stuff, so I came up with a plan that ended up working really well. I added vertical 2x6 supports tying every rafter to it's corresponding joist, about 3 feet or so in from the wall plate. These were screwed and glued with plywood gussets. Additionally I added 2x4 collar ties up towards the top of all the rafters. This effectively gave me a homemade attic truss system. I then decked the whole thing with 1/2" plywood and low and behold, it's as stiff as a rock up there. Even better than I'd hoped for. Even with an attic ladder installed and quite a bunch of stuff up there, it's very solid. That's just one example but at least for me, doing the extra work to tie everything together really strongly made a huge difference.

I hope this helps. Good luck with your project.

Regards,
-Greg

 

[SJR033]

When I placed my additional ties, I followed what the existing ones did. Set on top of the wall plate and nailed to the rafters. I don't see why the storage rack wouldn't work. I don't have mine loaded down. It is just x-mas decoration, golf clubs, etc. Typical "stuff" that I don't need everyday, so I was never really worried about weight. I assumed if it held with 4 ties for 50+ years of Michigan snow, surely the added ties could hold the misc stuff.

 

[illus101086]

appreciate the response and the feedba. Everything I've been told reinforced my plan of action especially considering I probably won't be adding as much weightwet drywall and so on. Greg you also mentioned how the rafter ties or nailed to both the wall plate and rafters is exactly what I was planning on doing which would make for a solid connection and I was also planning on adding braces to all the rafters ties. you pretty much is fine exactly what I was planning on doing.except I am also going to add two strong backs.one to the left and to the right of the original strong back.

 

[1949 caddyman]

Those look like joists to me. Rafter ties are attached further up the rafters. IMO you could put 2x6 on 16 or 24 oc and have a nice storage above.

 

[illus101086]

Those look like joists to me. Rafter ties are attached further up the rafters. IMO you could put 2x6 on 16 or 24 oc and have a nice storage above.

that's exactly what I thought initially until I did quite a bit of research and discover have rafter ties are placed anywhere in the bottom one thirdsection of the ceiling and commonly laid on the wall plate

 

[astroracer]

Ceiling joist OR rafter ties, either one is good, they are the same.
'Collar ties" are higher up in the rafter. Usually at 2/3 or so.
I would add some "collar ties" to your current rafters and some purlins at that intersection of collar tie to rafter. Drop purlin bracing from those down to the joists to support your rack.

(Drawing not to scale)
This ties the load, in a triangular fashion, back into the rafters which is where you want it to be.
Mark

 

[illus101086]

Ceiling joist OR rafter ties, either one is good, they are the same.
'Collar ties" are higher up in the rafter. Usually at 2/3 or so.
I would add some "collar ties" to your current rafters and some purlins at that intersection of collar tie to rafter. Drop purlin bracing from those down to the joists to support your rack.

(Drawing not to scale)
This ties the load, in a triangular fashion, back into the rafters which is where you want it to be.
Mark

I will be definatly adding some collar ties to the rafters and what you mention about the purlins. If you look at the fifth picture down that i posted not sure if those are quite the same as pulins but at both front and back of ceiling the bracing is interested by another beam kinda like the purlins you mentioned. What size should i use for the collar ties 2x6 or 2x4?

 

[astroracer]

Those are probably just initially used to locate the gable rafters while constructing the shed. They do add a "little" anti-tip support but not much.
If you add the purlins they run straight for/aft at 90*s to the rafters.
Use 2 x 4's, 2 x 6's will add nothing extra to the mix.
Fit your collar ties between the rafters and either use store bought steel decking plates to attach them or make up some 1/2" plywood gussets and put one on each side of the joint. I like the plywood because you can throw some glue on it also.
A framing style air nailer will make short work of doing this. An air nailer induces much less stress into these joints when building them when compared to pounding in a dozen or so nails per joint

 

[illus101086]

yOU MEAN SOMETHING LIKE THIS http://www.homedepot.com/p/Hitachi-...pth-Adjustment-NR83A3S/204514355?N=5yc1vZc2bf pick that up after i ordered my lumber

 

[astroracer]

That'll work. I would check out Harbor Freight though. I have one of their framing nailers and it has worked just fine for me. I don't do it for a living though and would never wear one out but, for the price (80 bucks I think), it works fine.

 

[illus101086]

Worth the $80.

what is worth $80?

 

[ddawg16]

Illus.....are you in CA by any chance? that looks a lot like how mine was built.

As others have noted...those are basically rafter ties....they keep the walls from pushing out.

They will hold little to no weight.

My suggestion.....assuming your garage is about 18.5' wide.

Take some 2x6's....cut the ends so they will snub up under the roof and sit on the top plate.

Put them on 16" centers.

Then put some 1/2" plywood (not OSB) on top screwed to the joists.

I wouldn't store engine blocks up there....but it will hold up pretty good.

 

[illus101086]

Illus.....are you in CA by any chance? that looks a lot like how mine was built.

As others have noted...those are basically rafter ties....they keep the walls from pushing out.

They will hold little to no weight.

My suggestion.....assuming your garage is about 18.5' wide.

Take some 2x6's....cut the ends so they will snub up under the roof and sit on the top plate.

Put them on 16" centers.

Then put some 1/2" plywood (not OSB) on top screwed to the joists.

I wouldn't store engine blocks up there....but it will hold up pretty good.

Yes sir I'm located in so.cali and but actually cutting the 2x6 is not something you would nessicarly want to do because you in turn weaken whatever piece of lumber you cut and fortunaly I belive I'll be able to sit the 2x6 ties ok n the wall plate without having to cut into them.

 

[ddawg16]

Yes sir I'm located in so.cali and but actually cutting the 2x6 is not something you would nessicarly want to do because you in turn weaken whatever piece of lumber you cut and fortunaly I belive I'll be able to sit the 2x6 ties ok n the wall plate without having to cut into them.

Chances are I'm not far from you....

And....

No you won't. You will have to cut them. Trust me.

You won't even get close to that top plate with a square corner joist.

 

[illus101086]

Chances are I'm not far from you....

And....

No you won't. You will have to cut them. Trust me.

You won't even get close to that top plate with a square corner joist.

What county you in? And I'm gonna have to cut them regardless I ordered 2x6 that are 24" and I needed 22" but I knew that. plus got a decent price on it so can't complain. But the lumber got delivered today and I was able to get things situated for the most part for tomorrow.Figure it's gonna be at least a two day job. By the way was also thing about using those Simpson strong ties on the rafter ties. Oh by the way dawg saw ur new garage build and that thing is sweet

 

[illus101086]

Only thing getting ion the way is the strong back that is in the middle that runs from the front to back of the garage dont know what i should do about it. Dont know if it would be an issue to temporarily remove it until i finish installing new rafter ties or not.

 

[illus101086]

Just wanted to give you guys an update and thank everyone who threw some advice my way regarding my project. I was able to add extra support putting 2x6 at 16oc as well as replacing the old rafter ties. Was not easy to say the least and ddawg you were very right about what you aid regarding cutting the new 2x6.