Stripped gear: weld and file?

[PCustoms]

Went to take care of a little maintenance this morning (that admittedly slipped my mind with the weather the past month) and found the spur gear on the steering column fubar'd pretty good.

New part I'd $75-$100 and no where around here, so I called in a plow for tomorrow.

Think if I spend my time welding this up and then die grinding and filing back to (a) shape it will be worth it?

 

[The Cobbler]

anyway of getting that shaft re-oriented so the good part of the teeth are meshed with the mating gear?

 

[vpd66]

Looks like that gear is welded on the shaft. Take some measurements figure out what gear it is and what pitch and order a new one. Cut the old gear off the shaft and weld a new one on.

 

[PCustoms]

anyway of getting that shaft re-oriented so the good part of the teeth are meshed with the mating gear?

Unfortunately no, that was my first attempt. The shaft would have to do down in the tractor, and since it rides on a lower bushing its already bottomed out. Mating gear doesn't have any way to move up either.

Looks like that gear is welded on the shaft. Take some measurements figure out what gear it is and what pitch and order a new one. Cut the old gear off the shaft and weld a new one on.

Correct, it is welded.

Plan of attack:

1. Pay to have tomorrows 30" plowed
2. try to find duplicate gear
3. weld gear teeth and see how much effort it is to shape back
4. buy new Toro shaft

 

[oldmxracer]

What shape is the sector gear in ?

You don't have much to lose but a bit of time if You give the weld job a try.

 

[larry4406]

Garden tractor steering column?

I’d weld and file/grind it close to perfection. No one will die if tolerances are off. If you keep it below 60 mph I think you will be ok.

My MTD tractor that’s a replacement part.

Agree - look at the sector gear. Mine have always chewed up like yours.

 

[PCustoms]

Garden tractor steering column?

I’d weld and file/grind it close to perfection. No one will die if tolerances are off. If you keep it below 60 mph I think you will be ok.

My MTD tractor that’s a replacement part.

Agree - look at the sector gear. Mine have always chewed up like yours.

Yes, older Toro that I bought from Dad last summer. He mentioned the u joint was wearing. I used it 2x last fall on leaves, noticed it was a bit loose. Had 1 storm that I had to clean up after in November and it totally let loose/locked up straight. I left for a week of hunting and fixing the damn tractor slipped my mind until 8am this morning.

Sector gear oddly looks great.

Given the age of this tractor parts can be hard to come by. This shaft and the sector gear are available, and it looks like the whole kit might still be around for $130ish.

By the time I pushed it back out of the shop I didn't feel like welding tonight

 

[d.mcfarland]

I think I'd just spend the money and get the replacement.

That one is worn out and will need 10+ hours of work I bet.

 

[sberry]

Weld it and grind up, be done while others are still fikkin around. I did something similar a while back, might have been harder. Couldn't find one, would have taken a lot of time and special order if I could and needed it, took about an hour of patient work and turned out nice.

 

[txvwnut]

How about just grind the weld that’s holding the gear to the shaft so you can flip it and weld it back on and run on the good part till a new gear shows up.

 

[PCustoms]

How about just grind the weld that’s holding the gear to the shaft so you can flip it and weld it back on and run on the good part till a new gear shows up.

Maybe. Soaking in a cup of evaporust for the night, might be able to see exactly how it's put together tomorrow.

Even then it would still be a super small contact area.

 

[driz]

I went all through my Ariens 2004 24” 5 years back way up on the auger bushing. Horrible job had to gut all those drive gears just to remove the darned bushing. I got all my parts from Jacks Small Engine . They also have all those nice online exploded diagrams so helpful in big messes. They also give you the PNs so you can search around elsewhere . Only problem with Jacks is they charge shipping so take stock of any other iffy or worn out bearings and such so you can do it in one big order. Take a look at EBay / Amazon too . you can get new parts for almost anything out there mostly new old stock . Carbs are so cheap it’s not worth rebuilding the old ones[emoji847]
For now though if you don’t mind taking the time I would think welding is workable. Those gears are ultra slow turning anyways. I assume it just runs another gear whose shaft runs a bicycle chain to the shaft driving the wheels. My only concern welding it would be the imperfections wear damaging the mating gear so I’d keep it greased to death and watch it pretty closely for a while. Easy enough to do by dropping that base pan for a look see.



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[bugnut]

If it were mine, I'd measure the shaft diameter and length of the top (shiny) part of the shaft and also the lower rusty part of the shaft. If the diameter is close and you can polish up the rusty shaft end, then cut the shaft and gear off, Rotate 180 degrees, bevel both edges on the rusty and shiny shaft ends, set in angle iron and weld the shafts back together. Reinstall no filing and if you have space you can reinforce the shaft weld by welding angle iron onto bridge the newly welded shaft. The new gear teeth are the same as the old and will last as long as the previous. Good Luck, enjoy the snow...

 

[bugnut]

For a replacement gear might look here


http://www.sdp-si.com/products/Gears/Index.php

 

[Outlander]

Not very GJ of me, but you guys can file a gear tooth and respect the tooth profile with material that's hardened? You rock!

 

[PCustoms]

Bugnut,

Good idea in theory, I just wish it would work. There is so little left on the gear that even if I could shim it perfect I would still only have a small portion mating.

I took the mess out of the evaporust this morning, and bad news. What's left of the teeth have stress cracking. Going to be too much hassle to try to save this.

 

[BORING HOP YARD]

Greetings, the worn out gear might have been at a lower hardness "by design" so it will ware out before the larger gear. This was the case in some aircraft applications.
I have some hard to find Kubota loader chain gear parts that I have to chase down myself.
Good luck on your quest

 

[driz]

Bugnut,



Good idea in theory, I just wish it would work. There is so little left on the gear that even if I could shim it perfect I would still only have a small portion mating.



I took the mess out of the evaporated rhis morning, and bad news. What's left of the teeth have stress cracking. Going to be too much hassle to try to save this.

That’s usually the smart money with those sort of things. Thankfully the internet lets us order the same things the dealer can[emoji6]and in almost all cases not only cheaper but faster.
From the look of the rust on that old one you better be dropping that pan every year and slopping it all up well. You can’t really grease those well with the zero on the sides . It’s more of a [emoji85]hands on approach......


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[PCustoms]

That’s usually the smart money with those sort of things. Thankfully the internet lets us order the same things the dealer can[emoji6]and in almost all cases not only cheaper but faster.
From the look of the rust on that old one you better be dropping that pan every year and slopping it all up well. You can’t really grease those well with the zero on the sides . It’s more of a [emoji85]hands on approach......


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pan?

This is part of a mower. Really the rust is minimal for something that was built in 1995 and used outdoors for 24 yrs. Wire brush took most of it off by hand.

Parts on order, some Amazon sources had the best combo of price and leadtime, but even then 1/28 before I have everything in hand. Going to call and see if the toro dealer down the road has anything in stock tomorrow.

Storm was kind of a flop but i'm still in for $35 worth of plowing so far, with probably another round before its over.

 

[ez-duzit]

...Think if I spend my time welding this up and then die grinding and filing back to (a) shape it will be worth it?

No.

Replace the gear.

 

[Slednut]

Weld it and grind up, be done while others are still fikkin around. I did something similar a while back, might have been harder. Couldn't find one, would have taken a lot of time and special order if I could and needed it, took about an hour of patient work and turned out nice.

Totally agree, to me this would be a fun fix.

 

[sberry]

It's fast and cheap, don't mess with a file, use grinder. Can fix it today, no cost. No wait, no shopping. If I didn't do this kind of thing my world would come to a stop and it's what keeps the welders and grinders paying for itself.

 

[ez-duzit]

M.i.c...k.e.y...M.o.u.s.e.

 

[driz]

https://www.snowblowerforum.com/index.php?page=active_topics

There’s the forum for snowblower headaches loves and rants. Nice bunch of guys.
By base I meant bottom , just 2 or 4 bolts on most falls right off
Here’s one you just gotta do. It’s all but free and your blower will simply throw much farther at far lower RPM. I did this 4 years ago and never once since had unplug the chute. Packy **** slush you name it it tosses right outa there. Why they don’t do this on new ones if for no other reason than a safety factor ( chasing chopped off fingers through the snowbank) is beyond me.
All you do is cut up an old mud flap, I used a piece of treadmill belt. You might have to drill the screw holes if it’s hardened steel like my Ariens. This is the video that shows it best. YOU WILL LOVE THIS!

.


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[larry4406]

https://www.snowblowerforum.com/index.php?page=active_topics

There’s the forum for snowblower headaches loves and rants. Nice bunch of guys.
By base I meant bottom , just 2 or 4 bolts on most falls right off
Here’s one you just gotta do. It’s all but free and your blower will simply throw much farther at far lower RPM. I did this 4 years ago and never once since had unplug the chute. Packy **** slush you name it it tosses right outa there. Why they don’t do this on new ones if for no other reason than a safety factor ( chasing chopped off fingers through the snowbank) is beyond me.
All you do is cut up an old mud flap, I used a piece of treadmill belt. You might have to drill the screw holes if it’s hardened steel like my Ariens. This is the video that shows it best. YOU WILL LOVE THIS!

.
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Thanks for that Youtube link - I need to do this!

 

[driz]

Thanks for that Youtube link - I need to do this!

Trust me you won’t regret it It’s just that good. One word of caution if you are having to drill those pilot holes. Beware that lip Around the chute body. Your finger us to be right over that[emoji2959] thing more than likely so be ready when you break through. Your finger will thank you greatly. Hit it 4 or 5 times in the same place [emoji81] and it quit being even a little funny long before. With mine there was no other way and in spite of my best effort[emoji856][emoji856][emoji856]my trigger inter hurt for a few days.


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[Doug Arthurs]

Not very GJ of me, but you guys can file a gear tooth and respect the tooth profile with material that's hardened? You rock!

I did an old Massey Fergusen lawn tractor once. PO only turned left so when I got it it would only turn right. It had a flat rack in it. Welded it up with bronze rough cut it with a cut off wheel then cleaned it up with a file. Worked perfect until the tractor was finally scrapped.

 

[sberry]

I do this **** all the time. I repair parts, fix starters and alternators especially when they have a problem that can be solved with repair vs having to rebuild everything. Same for fixing old tractors or a mower/blower like this. I want it to work, my goal isn't to rebuild and see how much money I can park in something that doesn't have much collateral value.
I fix about 10 things wrong with an old tractor a while back. If I would have stopped and found, bought parts for every problem would still be saving up and not finished. I have buds want to drive an hour every little thing wrong and spend 30$ for each little piece when its got a leaky carb needle we can fix. Gonna come back next week with a part while this **** sits.
This gear is a poster case of that, goes in an old machine, cost 130, $ even if you can find it, would have to wait, drive or shop. If I am in a hurry I can fix it today in an hour, 2 if I wanna come in for coffee and fart on the keyboard and I am making 130 for the time and it works.
We had a starter out the other day, I normally do forensics on them. We find out its a broken copper piece. old truck, reman was 100$ and come to find out they had little repair kit for this at 20 or 25$. It was close to closing time and I didn't feel like going anyway but my helper solder it up and fix it dandy and we got it running again and installed in 30 mins, no trip to town, no sales tax, no parts cost.
Same way for exhaust work, fix a broken piece and the rest of it outlives the car and I don't have a worn out car with brandy new exhaust on it. We fix something most every day in this fashion. Its the reason I have it all, the tools the stock and the know how and the knowledge of what and when is acceptable for common work.
I put a new caliper and set of brake pads on my old junk work van a while back. It had caused me a couple minor problems and no way around buying SOME new stuff. I didn't toss 700$ at it for every new part when its already got one foot in the scrap yard. I want it to work but not interested in rebuilding.

 

[lbhsbz]

Not very GJ of me, but you guys can file a gear tooth and respect the tooth profile with material that's hardened? You rock!

If it was hardened it probably wouldn't have worn like that.

 

[bczygan]

I do this **** all the time. I repair parts, fix starters and alternators especially when they have a problem that can be solved with repair vs having to rebuild everything. Same for fixing old tractors or a mower/blower like this. I want it to work, my goal isn't to rebuild and see how much money I can park in something that doesn't have much collateral value.
I fix about 10 things wrong with an old tractor a while back. If I would have stopped and found, bought parts for every problem would still be saving up and not finished. I have buds want to drive an hour every little thing wrong and spend 30$ for each little piece when its got a leaky carb needle we can fix. Gonna come back next week with a part while this **** sits.
This gear is a poster case of that, goes in an old machine, cost 130, $ even if you can find it, would have to wait, drive or shop. If I am in a hurry I can fix it today in an hour, 2 if I wanna come in for coffee and fart on the keyboard and I am making 130 for the time and it works.
We had a starter out the other day, I normally do forensics on them. We find out its a broken copper piece. old truck, reman was 100$ and come to find out they had little repair kit for this at 20 or 25$. It was close to closing time and I didn't feel like going anyway but my helper solder it up and fix it dandy and we got it running again and installed in 30 mins, no trip to town, no sales tax, no parts cost.
Same way for exhaust work, fix a broken piece and the rest of it outlives the car and I don't have a worn out car with brandy new exhaust on it. We fix something most every day in this fashion. Its the reason I have it all, the tools the stock and the know how and the knowledge of what and when is acceptable for common work.
I put a new caliper and set of brake pads on my old junk work van a while back. It had caused me a couple minor problems and no way around buying SOME new stuff. I didn't toss 700$ at it for every new part when its already got one foot in the scrap yard. I want it to work but not interested in rebuilding.

Bill

 

[d.mcfarland]

I do this **** all the time. I repair parts, fix starters and alternators especially when they have a problem that can be solved with repair vs having to rebuild everything. Same for fixing old tractors or a mower/blower like this. I want it to work, my goal isn't to rebuild and see how much money I can park in something that doesn't have much collateral value.
I fix about 10 things wrong with an old tractor a while back. If I would have stopped and found, bought parts for every problem would still be saving up and not finished. I have buds want to drive an hour every little thing wrong and spend 30$ for each little piece when its got a leaky carb needle we can fix. Gonna come back next week with a part while this **** sits.
This gear is a poster case of that, goes in an old machine, cost 130, $ even if you can find it, would have to wait, drive or shop. If I am in a hurry I can fix it today in an hour, 2 if I wanna come in for coffee and fart on the keyboard and I am making 130 for the time and it works.
We had a starter out the other day, I normally do forensics on them. We find out its a broken copper piece. old truck, reman was 100$ and come to find out they had little repair kit for this at 20 or 25$. It was close to closing time and I didn't feel like going anyway but my helper solder it up and fix it dandy and we got it running again and installed in 30 mins, no trip to town, no sales tax, no parts cost.
Same way for exhaust work, fix a broken piece and the rest of it outlives the car and I don't have a worn out car with brandy new exhaust on it. We fix something most every day in this fashion. Its the reason I have it all, the tools the stock and the know how and the knowledge of what and when is acceptable for common work.
I put a new caliper and set of brake pads on my old junk work van a while back. It had caused me a couple minor problems and no way around buying SOME new stuff. I didn't toss 700$ at it for every new part when its already got one foot in the scrap yard. I want it to work but not interested in rebuilding.

I am going to state the obvious.

You would have a lot more time on your hands and less hassle if you repaired stuff correctly.

If you have to Mickey Mouse something "most every day", something wasn't correct to begin with.

Work smarter, not harder.

 

[kelpaso1]

I am going to state the obvious.

You would have a lot more time on your hands and less hassle if you repaired stuff correctly.

If you have to Mickey Mouse something "most every day", something wasn't correct to begin with.

Work smarter, not harder.

Well he is a farmer. We have a lot of farmers here in my area and I see a lot of "farmer" repairs and I just shake my head sometimes how some hacks are just that but work surprisingly well

 

[ez-duzit]

...I just shake my head sometimes how some hacks are just that but work surprisingly well

...for a awhile.

It's OK, if you're dirt poor and have no other choice.

 

[Tracs]

Jesus Christ guys, it's the steering gear on a lawn tractor not the space shuttle! He has 30" of snow coming and half of you are disgusted by the thought of welding the gear and using a angle grinder to fix it up?

Telling him to order a new part isn't working smarter.

 

[ez-duzit]

He could have had the new part a couple days after he discovered it was broken (last season).

 

[sberry]

I woulda fixxed it a couple hours after it broke or caught it ahead of it in most cases.
Does any of this look amateur? Weld, cut and grind with precision.

 

[d.mcfarland]

We have a lot of farmers here in my area and I see a lot of "farmer" repairs and I just shake my head sometimes how some hacks are just that but work surprisingly well

Agreed, this is not the case here though.

...for a awhile.

It's OK, if you're dirt poor and have no other choice.

Agreed also.

He could have had the new part a couple days after he discovered it was broken (last season).

Truth.

 

[brianh]

I do this **** all the time. I repair parts, fix starters and alternators especially when they have a problem that can be solved with repair vs having to rebuild everything. Same for fixing old tractors or a mower/blower like this. I want it to work, my goal isn't to rebuild and see how much money I can park in something that doesn't have much collateral value.
I fix about 10 things wrong with an old tractor a while back. If I would have stopped and found, bought parts for every problem would still be saving up and not finished. I have buds want to drive an hour every little thing wrong and spend 30$ for each little piece when its got a leaky carb needle we can fix. Gonna come back next week with a part while this **** sits.
This gear is a poster case of that, goes in an old machine, cost 130, $ even if you can find it, would have to wait, drive or shop. If I am in a hurry I can fix it today in an hour, 2 if I wanna come in for coffee and fart on the keyboard and I am making 130 for the time and it works.
We had a starter out the other day, I normally do forensics on them. We find out its a broken copper piece. old truck, reman was 100$ and come to find out they had little repair kit for this at 20 or 25$. It was close to closing time and I didn't feel like going anyway but my helper solder it up and fix it dandy and we got it running again and installed in 30 mins, no trip to town, no sales tax, no parts cost.
Same way for exhaust work, fix a broken piece and the rest of it outlives the car and I don't have a worn out car with brandy new exhaust on it. We fix something most every day in this fashion. Its the reason I have it all, the tools the stock and the know how and the knowledge of what and when is acceptable for common work.
I put a new caliper and set of brake pads on my old junk work van a while back. It had caused me a couple minor problems and no way around buying SOME new stuff. I didn't toss 700$ at it for every new part when its already got one foot in the scrap yard. I want it to work but not interested in rebuilding.

We think the same way, some on here have a shop just to look at the pretty tools not actually use them to fix stuff.

 

[sanddan]

Jesus Christ guys, it's the steering gear on a lawn tractor not the space shuttle! He has 30" of snow coming and half of you are disgusted by the thought of welding the gear and using a angle grinder to fix it up?

Telling him to order a new part isn't working smarter.

I agree, low speed and low forces so why not braze and file? Not every repair needs to be done NASA quality, save it for when it's really required.

 

[sberry]

Bad news was a seized pin we couldn't see and it snapped the yoke off an expensive cylinder. 500$ and 2 weeks wait. Good news, 2 1/2 hours later working again, 1 small grinding wheel and 5$ worth of welding rod.