Strongest Topcoat (clear) for epoxy floor?
- Thread starter hardhat
- Start date
LegacyIndustrial
ALLIANCE MEMBER
If you can work quickly, polyaspartic is great. Otherwise, there is nothing wrong with a urethane.
dcs Inc
Well-known member
There are other polyaspartics on the market that give a longer pot life.
Garage Flooring
ALLIANCE MEMBER
Forgive me for asking but how are you using the floor. There are a lot of top coats and some are tougher on UV, others are tougher on brake fluid versus acids and some give good all around performance. If you have a specific application 'need' than the best thing to do is to use a coating that is the strongest for that type of application.
For example I have a top coat used to resist Skydrol. Skydrol will eat through PVC sheets but won't touch this. That said use it in a transition between garage and exterior and your going to have an issue.
1 year old hard troweled Garage floor in Nebraska (extreme hot/cold though its heated via furnace) 1100sq/ft with med to heavy use. I was going planning to use one of the vendors (non-most expensive-if that makes sense)epoxies. I wanted to see if there is a significant difference in durability & long term performance between the moisture cured urethanes/ polyurethanes (2 part and 1 part?) and polaspartic. Also is it worth the extra money as it seems to be a significant diff in $$$. Would I do 2 coats urethane OR 1 coat clear polyspartic? Im not worried about pot life so much as I am durability.
Also my friend did his garage with Norklad? I think thats right, Im not using them but he gave me 2 gallons of "Pre-Prime 167" which he did not use. Is this a good primer for epoxy? I havent found alot of info on it. Im looking at using it with a solids or solvent based epoxy that some of you offer.
Im looking at
-shot blasting
-pre-prime 167
-solids or high solids epoxy
-full flake
-shark grit
-(clear? not sure what)
Thanks for the input
Also my friend did his garage with Norklad? I think thats right, Im not using them but he gave me 2 gallons of "Pre-Prime 167" which he did not use. Is this a good primer for epoxy? I havent found alot of info on it. Im looking at using it with a solids or solvent based epoxy that some of you offer.
Im looking at
-shot blasting
-pre-prime 167
-solids or high solids epoxy
-full flake
-shark grit
-(clear? not sure what)
Thanks for the input
LegacyIndustrial
ALLIANCE MEMBER
Polyaspartic urethane: lower smell, lower pot life, super fast cure, extremely clear, able to apply 3x thicker than mcu if desired.
Mcu: nasty smell, long pot life, less finicky, thin coats only, similar wear characteristics.
We use mcu on our jobs with excellent results. The only advantage we see is when you do a full chip, you can do one thicker coat of polyaspartic vs. two thin coats of mcu.
In your case this would be good also, be prepared to add a body and the fast cure is nullified.
Mcu: nasty smell, long pot life, less finicky, thin coats only, similar wear characteristics.
We use mcu on our jobs with excellent results. The only advantage we see is when you do a full chip, you can do one thicker coat of polyaspartic vs. two thin coats of mcu.
In your case this would be good also, be prepared to add a body and the fast cure is nullified.
LegacyIndustrial
ALLIANCE MEMBER
Epoxy clear without any uv inhibitor will amber depending on the type of lighting. Epoxy clear is not really clear to begin with, it is amber.
dcs Inc
Well-known member
I had an installer apply another type of clear epoxy and then finish his project with Elite Crete's PT1 crystal clear epoxy. Yes some epoxies are a light amber in color even though they say clear. It was real evident. Elite Crete Systems PT1 and UV1 are water clear.
jhutch
Well-known member
Polyaspartic is the way to go! We've put down several hundred thousand sf over the past 5 years and no complaints. No yellowing, damage-unless the concrete went with it (from an impact). Ours has very low odor, so it can be used indoors very easily.
You do need to know what you're doing to get it down though. This summers heat and humidity make it difficult, but still doing them. Finished another one today and it was 99 degrees.
You do need to know what you're doing to get it down though. This summers heat and humidity make it difficult, but still doing them. Finished another one today and it was 99 degrees.
is their any reason to fight the quick pot life and pay the extra cost for poly aspartic over a urethane clear topcoat if you don't care how long the job takes to do? I understand the huge advantage for installers to get in and out and minimize time on job and time of disruption for customer - but for DIY how much tougher/better is the polyaspartic than urethane over a full chip?
thanks
thanks
thegarageguy
Well-known member
I use both polyurethanes and polyaspartics and they both have their place depending on application. In a garage setting, I have noticed polyaspartics give better uv protection. Now, just bare in mind, not all polyaspartics are equal these days. There are many Companies making them with many different formulations....for DIY, you may find it very difficult to apply, do to its fast set time.
Just use a polyaspartic polyurea for the floor's coating. You don't need epoxy underneath it.
The application process is the same as an epoxy application. A polyaspartic typically has better elongation, is more durable, and won't fade or yellow like many epoxy products.
The application process is the same as an epoxy application. A polyaspartic typically has better elongation, is more durable, and won't fade or yellow like many epoxy products.
Last edited:
Herb67SS
Well-known member
I'm assuming "polyaspartic polyurea" and "polyaspartic" are the same coating?
I'm trying to learn here also.
Seems like the cost of polyaspartic is double that of plain old epoxy, is that correct?
I'm trying to learn here also.
Seems like the cost of polyaspartic is double that of plain old epoxy, is that correct?
There are LOTS of kinds of epoxy products. For the resin, it can be bisphenol A, bisphenol F, or Novolac (modified bis-F). For the hardener, there are many chemicals, but the classes of chemicals are aliphatic amines, polyamides, cycloaliphatic amines, amidoamines, and aromatic amines.
Polyaspartic polyureas are not as chemically diverse as epoxies. A polyaspartic is going to be a better product than most of the typical "garage" epoxies.
Are there epoxies that are better than a polyaspartic? Well, that depends on the application. For example, a Novolac epoxy will have better chemical resistance than a polyaspartic. However, Novolacs are fairly brittle and may not be the best choice for the application.
You can buy water-based epoxy which is basically the bottom of the barrel as far as epoxies go and no doubt it will be inexpensive. You get what you pay for.
Polyaspartic polyureas are not as chemically diverse as epoxies. A polyaspartic is going to be a better product than most of the typical "garage" epoxies.
Are there epoxies that are better than a polyaspartic? Well, that depends on the application. For example, a Novolac epoxy will have better chemical resistance than a polyaspartic. However, Novolacs are fairly brittle and may not be the best choice for the application.
You can buy water-based epoxy which is basically the bottom of the barrel as far as epoxies go and no doubt it will be inexpensive. You get what you pay for.
So your saying a single coat of polyaspartic polyurea would be better than a coat of expoxy (100% solids) with a polyurethane? In terms of durability
Absolutely. A PAP (polyaspartic aliphatic polyurea) can take more wear and tear than either an epoxy or urethane.
No matter what product you use, you should put down about 10 to 15 mils
Last edited:
thegarageguy
Well-known member
These blanket statements make me wonder of your experience....
Not blanket, we're talking garage floors and garage floor products.
thegarageguy
Well-known member
Doesn't matter if it's garage, retail, kitchen, basement or whatever. Like I stated before, there are many PAP, epoxy and polyurethane formulations. All manufacturers produce and sell multiple formulations of each and they differ from manufacturer to manufacturer. So your claim to install at 10 to 15 mils, no matter what PAP is completely wrong! Try installing a 60 to 70% solids PAP at that thickness and see what happens.
Also, your claim that "any PAP can take more wear and tear than either an epoxy or urethane" is completely false as well. In some case we use a certain epoxy and polyurethane formulations that wear like iron. Used in similar conditions, completely outperformed any PAP I have ever used. And yes, talking about garages…Firehouse, mechanic shops and lube centers….they are all garages, correct?
Also, your claim that "any PAP can take more wear and tear than either an epoxy or urethane" is completely false as well. In some case we use a certain epoxy and polyurethane formulations that wear like iron. Used in similar conditions, completely outperformed any PAP I have ever used. And yes, talking about garages…Firehouse, mechanic shops and lube centers….they are all garages, correct?
Ok, like what epoxy/urethane products would you apply that would wear like iron in a garage and be considered affordable for a garage?
Who has a 60% solids PAP?
A full chip broadcast along with a 100% solids PAP will get you a 10 to 15 mil floor. 3-4 mil base coat (of which 2 or 3 will sink within the concrete), 2-3 mils tak coat, chips, 6 to 7 mils topcoat.
Last edited:
thegarageguy
Well-known member
I'm not on here to promote any Company or their products, but given the cost of most PAP's you can have a higher build, usually 4 to 5x thicker and still be cheaper than a thin mil PAP system.
Most legitimate manufacturers have a range of Polyaspartics to offer, 60 to 70% is available....its not a secret
You stated any PAP can be put down at 10 to 15 mils, which is why I said it was a blanket statement....NOW you are clarifying
Btw, 10 mils is the thickness of a piece of paper...basically a rolled on system.....that thin mil system may work well in a brand new, well poured, flat slab, but it's rarely the case for us being in the North East. Try doing a high build or slurry with a PAP...
Although I'm a believer and user of many PAP's, I can say without a shadow of a doubt that it isn't the cure all for every situation.
as far as the original question..."strongest top coat".....it's a question that is impossible to answer. One thing we can agree on, any high solids poly top coated floor is better off than one without or epoxy only floor.
Well, you didn't specifically answer my questions, but that's OK, you don't have to. I don't think I've run into any PAP that's less than 70% solids. I'm not aware of any urethane over epoxy combo that would wear like a rock and be affordable for a garage.
You said a piece of paper is 10 mils, now THAT is a blanket statement!
If you meant a piece of 20lb paper which is the most common size for "copy paper", then the thickness is 3.8 mils, not 10 mils. But, maybe you meant some other type of paper.
You said a piece of paper is 10 mils, now THAT is a blanket statement!
If you meant a piece of 20lb paper which is the most common size for "copy paper", then the thickness is 3.8 mils, not 10 mils. But, maybe you meant some other type of paper.
dcs Inc
Well-known member
Jeese guys, can I play?
Join the fun! No big deal, were all friends here just having a intellectual discussion.
thegarageguy
Well-known member
Believe me buddy, there are many polyurethanes much more scratch resistant than Pap's...I wish some manufacturers that lurk here would chime in. I find PAP's very uv resistant but i have found them to wear more and scratch easier. I can pm you my personal favorite combo...like I said, I'm not here to push any product or promote any Company.
Regardless, your chip floors are comparable to a sheet of paper not mine
Regardless, your chip floors are comparable to a sheet of paper not mine
LegacyIndustrial
ALLIANCE MEMBER
We sell epoxy under mcu all day everyday.
Excellent wearing, looking and costs less than pap.
A full pap system is costly and never a good idea for a newb.
Pap is another weapon in the arsenal, every job is different.
Btw. We have a new wb urethane that is the bees knees, good performance, no smell, matte or full gloss .
Gene, dive in the waters fine.
Excellent wearing, looking and costs less than pap.
A full pap system is costly and never a good idea for a newb.
Pap is another weapon in the arsenal, every job is different.
Btw. We have a new wb urethane that is the bees knees, good performance, no smell, matte or full gloss .
Gene, dive in the waters fine.
Last edited:
I found this thread in my research for a flat clear coat.
Scotty,can you tell me more about this and is it still the bees knees?
Can it be applied over bare concrete?
"Btw. We have a new wb urethane that is the bees knees, good performance, no smell, matte or full gloss ."
Scotty,can you tell me more about this and is it still the bees knees?
Can it be applied over bare concrete?
"Btw. We have a new wb urethane that is the bees knees, good performance, no smell, matte or full gloss ."
dcs Inc
Well-known member
Polyaspartics are great for the sun drenched exposure. they are harder, more chemical/heat resistant and have greater abrasion resistance.
I have found a good coating of a urethane top coat over a decent thickness of 100% solids epoxy with aluminum oxide additive to be the best long wearing surface available for the cost. Not sure about bees knees but it is a good alternative to a more industrial application.
As with all topical application, the key is to take care of your new floor. If you spill battery acid on it clean it up. If you are grinding creating a heavy spark or welding, dropping a lot of slag.... give me a break.... nothing will hold up to a wild man in his man cave creating the next widget.
I have found a good coating of a urethane top coat over a decent thickness of 100% solids epoxy with aluminum oxide additive to be the best long wearing surface available for the cost. Not sure about bees knees but it is a good alternative to a more industrial application.
As with all topical application, the key is to take care of your new floor. If you spill battery acid on it clean it up. If you are grinding creating a heavy spark or welding, dropping a lot of slag.... give me a break.... nothing will hold up to a wild man in his man cave creating the next widget.