Structural advise needed

[durk_2007]

I've been here awhile lerking, built my shop at home 20x45 heated floor 10ft walls 12ft ceiling. I love it thank your guys for unwittingly making me double my budget.



However I now have the opportunity to by a property just outside city limits with a 40x80 14ft walls
My question is, what is the safest way to remove some of these ridge support posts. I would like to remove 2-3 so that it would be easier to navigate a truck between them. Not consecutively maybe every other.

 

[durk_2007]

Forgot to mention rafters are sistered 2x10-12 spaced 4ft on a stick built walls I believe 2x4 with a sistered 2x10 ridge board/beam

 

[loganb]

You need to hire a seasoned structural engineer to evaluate and make a recommendation, then if you buy the property to create a set of drawings detailing what they advise to do and the key details such as anchor requirements and minimum beam/ post sizing.

Disclaimer out of the way, it should be possible to do but the details and your budget will drive if it's feasible. A steel beam, sized correctly should allow adequate headroom and let you remove several columns to create some bays and better access. A correctly sized wood beam could likely be done but will likely be more expensive as very likely will have to be custom ordered vs steel which can likely be found at the local scrap yard in an adequate size and condition. To accomplish this the new posts likely have to be larger and better anchored and depending on the existing concrete likely will need to set on newly poured concrete footings/piers...depth and diameter should be able to be provided by said engineer as well.

A good structural engineer should be able to give directional guidance for a nominal fee so you can use it to scope costs and get contractor and material estimates, then if you go through with it can do the additional work(for more money) to finalize details and produce the necessary documentation limiting your sunk costs if you don't purchase it.

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[firebirdparts]

Forgot to mention rafters are sistered 2x10-12 spaced 4ft on a stick built walls I believe 2x4 with a sistered 2x10 ridge board/beam

That’s a pretty bizarre choice for that size building. With 14 foot walls, there wouldn’t be any reason not to put a truss across there to hold up the load on that post. Or, You could beef up the ridge and send the load out to other columns. Those are the two options. Neither is super easy but they’re easy enough.

How strange. That had to be a DIY building but it sure is a big one.

 

[GMCGarage]

I Would say that a new ridge beam to support the load. Simple design for an engineer, also might need new footings each end.

 

[50pascals]

Are those posts actually structural? The picture makes it look like they are crooked, off center, not connected to a ridge beam. Do those posts have a footer?

 

[bczygan]

Reinforce the existing ridge beam at the spans where you remove any posts.

Bill

 

[Denwood]

You could get rid of all (or some) of the posts with an appropriately engineered LVL beam (or steel beam) installed under the existing ridge, and footings at both ends. The LVL beam size/cost and footing spec will of course go up as you lengthen the span. LVLs can be laminated in place, so likely would be easier if you're doing it DIY.

 

[GMCGarage]

You could get rid of all (or some) of the posts with an appropriately engineered LVL beam (or steel beam) installed under the existing ridge, and footings at both ends. The LVL beam size/cost and footing spec will of course go up as you lengthen the span. LVLs can be laminated in place, so likely would be easier if you're doing it DIY.

80' length. I would suspect that 20-25' would be max for a LVL based on his location. Would have to run the numbers.

 

[Denwood]

For sure. LVL may work to remove a few posts, but it would have to be steel at 80ft. Our local shops don't stock anything longer than 24' but you can order up to 40'.

Durk mentioned removing 2-3 posts, so you could likely do that with LVLs. They are a lot easier to manage with a few guys as you will buy them in 1 1/2" widths to spec. and can laminate in place..

 

[firebirdparts]

You could get rid of all (or some) of the posts with an appropriately engineered LVL beam (or steel beam) installed under the existing ridge, and footings at both ends. The LVL beam size/cost and footing spec will of course go up as you lengthen the span. LVLs can be laminated in place, so likely would be easier if you're doing it DIY.

80 feet? That sounds impossible with LVL

 

[nadogail]

80 feet? That sounds impossible with LVL

I have found that with enough time and money nothing is impossible.

 

[nadogail]

80 feet? That sounds impossible with LVL

I have found that with enough time and money nothing is impossible.

 

[Bolson32]

Are those posts actually structural? The picture makes it look like they are crooked, off center, not connected to a ridge beam. Do those posts have a footer?

That's my question. Doesn't look like they're holding anything to me. I'm sure they are, because otherwise why would they be there. But the picture isn't detailed enough.

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[matt_i]

Seeing as there's nothing inside of it and there are stick walls...

It would be really fast to demo the roof, set trusses, and re-sheath (?) or re-roof it. You could take the route to set them 2ft on center and prep for a ceiling...or go post frame style but you'd probably need additional framing to support the concentrated loads.

Granted this isn't the best time to do this. Lumber prices are highest in history.

The idea to "header" loads and transfer them elsewhere isn't a bad one. But wherever that extra force/load is being sent, needs consideration. It was mentioned already: bigger footings, larger cross-section posts, more cross bracing or a moment-bearing post.

I don't know the outside land but one could also potentially leave that space as-is, header the sidewalls, and cut in new garage doors and avoid the posts that way.

Some info about long-term use of the space would be helpful.

 

[imjustdave]

Any better photos?

To be honest looks like a rafter VS Truss so the wall has to hold the roof up vertically and horizontal and by the looks with support comes from the poles.

Not trying to be judgemental but by the one photo this shop might be a money pit of issues.

Falling down insulation.
supports needed for roof -- doesn't fit your needs.
doesn't appear to have a floor hard to tell

basically ensure it's what you want and don't get rose colored glasses.

I once found property with a shop already, was super excited as it was big, large land and close to home. But tweakers had stolen anything of value, wiring, metal, plumbing. insulation was falling down,rats around. All doors gone or damaged. For some strange reason previous owner had dumped 150 - 200 yards worth of glass gravel up against the one side of the building 8- 10 feet deep, causing that one side to cave in a smidge. At the end of the day it was a metal shell with ragged edges. I didn't buy the place but it would have taken considerable funds just to clean up, replace bent metal, rewire, ETC
Just don't get too excited and bypass your needs just because it says SHOP on the ad.

 

[yeldogt]

I think you know the answer ....

You have to spend some $$ and get a structural engineer to have a look -- there is no other way. If you need permits -- you will be paying for one anyway.

I have bought many old building in my time -- getting proper advise upfront is so important.

Steel is expensive ...

People see an old building at a good price and reimagine what it can be -- great. But what's it going to take to get from A to B. Best to know upfront.

It's not unusual when looking at the various costs -- to start over. I have learned the hard way on this and ended up spending 75% of what new would have cost. About 10 years ago I was in this situation and having learned my lesson. I took the roof off and reframed w/o and supports. What's the roof condition ?

going down the middle with 80' of anything is not going to be cheap

 

[Bill Bowman]

I think you know the answer ....

You have to spend some $$ and get a structural engineer to have a look -- there is no other way. If you need permits -- you will be paying for one anyway.

I have bought many old building in my time -- getting proper advise upfront is so important.

Steel is expensive ...

People see an old building at a good price and reimagine what it can be -- great. But what's it going to take to get from A to B. Best to know upfront.

It's not unusual when looking at the various costs -- to start over. I have learned the hard way on this and ended up spending 75% of what new would have cost. About 10 years ago I was in this situation and having learned my lesson. I took the roof off and reframed w/o and supports. What's the roof condition ?

going down the middle with 80' of anything is not going to be cheap

Question. Why would OP need to install an 80' "anything" down the middle if the buiulding is only 45' long? Did I miss something?

 

[durk_2007]

Question. Why would OP need to install an 80' "anything" down the middle if the buiulding is only 45' long? Did I miss something?

U missed something,lol my shop at home is 45ft. This is another building I was looking at 40x80

 

[durk_2007]

Any better photos?

To be honest looks like a rafter VS Truss so the wall has to hold the roof up vertically and horizontal and by the looks with support comes from the poles.

Not trying to be judgemental but by the one photo this shop might be a money pit of issues.

Falling down insulation.
supports needed for roof -- doesn't fit your needs.
doesn't appear to have a floor hard to tell

basically ensure it's what you want and don't get rose colored glasses.

I once found property with a shop already, was super excited as it was big, large land and close to home. But tweakers had stolen anything of value, wiring, metal, plumbing. insulation was falling down,rats around. All doors gone or damaged. For some strange reason previous owner had dumped 150 - 200 yards worth of glass gravel up against the one side of the building 8- 10 feet deep, causing that one side to cave in a smidge. At the end of the day it was a metal shell with ragged edges. I didn't buy the place but it would have taken considerable funds just to clean up, replace bent metal, rewire, ETC
Just don't get too excited and bypass your needs just because it says SHOP on the ad.

That is kind of the situation. It is a rough building there is a full concrete floor. plan was to be used to store toys and trailers. It also has 2acres just outside city jurisdiction and is less than 3 minutes from home. Listed for 30k. But I got the call last night that the seller accepted the other offer so not an issue now