Structural and Civil Engineers Please Respond

[Mr.Magoo]

I had an earlier post regarding a building that I had interest in. Building is pre-engineered, never been erected and the county says the engineering is probably okay as it was destined for a mountainous region with a great amount of snow, wind, rain and a very active seismic region, where I am at, it is a flat valley and not to much of the aforementioned is a great concern. Although, their concern was that the plans need to reflect a 2010 CSBC/IBC requirement and all that is necessary is that an engineer write a letter of confirmation and wet stamp it stating so. How much review is going to take place and what kind of cost at the maximum are we looking at, beings the engineering is done, how much could the codes have change and considering that my area should be of a lesser requirement relating to the codes because of it's location and the higher demands for the area for which it was originally destined. If the cost gets out of hand, I may have to pass as it may not be feasible to go forth. Maybe I am missing something in the grand scheme of things, but for a building that is just two years prior to the 2010 requirements, wouldn't this just be a slam dunk review because all the work was done before, just stamp the thing upon reading the calc's and codes that I have in hand, if not meeting the 2010 code, make subtle changes and write a letter of confirmation stating so. I know you guys need to eat too, but hey, the work is already done, what little could have changed in three years and especially since it is just an agricultural purposed building. Thanks

 

[bgarrett]

short sentences

 

[Stuart in MN]

I'm an electrical engineer, but based on my experience you're probably going to have to pay in the range of $1000 - $1500 to get someone to review and stamp them. That's figuring 8 to 10 hours' time, at an hourly rate of $100 to $150/hour.

 

[DekeT]

To "assume" that the engineering is done makes an '"*** of you and me". You want a licensed professional to give you a slam dunk review. Why don't you just call a local firm and ask them to quote you a price?

 

[Mr.Magoo]

To "assume" that the engineering is done makes an '"*** of you and me". You want a licensed professional to give you a slam dunk review. Why don't you just call a local firm and ask them to quote you a price?

Well. I do now have the plans and they are stamped in regards to having already been engineered, the problem was that at this point in time they are not meeting the requirements for the 2010 code. Meaning: "the plans were drawn and engineered in the year 2008". The county wants them certified to meet the 2010 code requirements. The engineering of the structure was complete, nothing changed here but the CSBC/IBC was updated in late 2009 for the 2010 year and that is what they are operating under at this time.

 

[67fairlane]

Contact the building mfr. and have them review.

 

[Stuart in MN]

I saw the other thread but don't remember the details - is there any chance you can contact the original company or engineer who drew up the plans in the first place?

 

[WNYflyer]

I am a structural engineer. Do the following if you have not already:

1. Try to contact the original manufacturer of the building. The drawings probably have a job or order number on them plus dates. Using that information the manufacturer maybe able to look up and see if they still have the original computer file of the structural design of the building.

2. If the manufacturer has the original computer file of the structural design see if they will re-run it and check the building to see that it meets the code the county wants. Then see if they can stamp new drawings and send them to you if things check out. Of course this will all cost you.

3. Do yourself a huge favor and do #1 and #2 before you do anything else like looking for a third party PE to review the building.


Good luck

 

[nehog]

I am a structural engineer. Do the following if you have not already:

1. Try to contact the original manufacturer of the building. The drawings probably have a job or order number on them plus dates. ...

Every piece of my building, when it arrived, was marked with either a magic marker, or paint pen, with the 'project number' which was the unique number to identify my building. Look on your stuff and you may have the same thing, and if so that will make things much easier for the manufacturer.

As well, these things are all designed with computers today, and to reprint the documentation is not difficult. It may be a bit expensive (my building was about 200 pages, double sided) and as well, the manufacturer likely has an engineer in your state who had the necessary license to be able to certify the drawings/plans for you.

Check for that project (maybe called a building) number.

 

[geotek]

How much did the codes change between 2008 and 2010? Will the county issue a waiver? Yes engineers have to eat. They also have to cover the cost of liability insurance that comes as part of the stamp which ain't cheap.

 

[KELLHAMMER]

If they are asking for your building to comply with 2010 IBC (I am not familiar with a 2010 version ) Plus, the local jurisdiction is allowed to make changes to the model code they follow typically referred to as "amendments" That may not be the code for which the pre-fab building manuf. adhered to. A local design professional or a design professional employed by the building manuf. and licensed in your state needs to do a review and sign off on the design. Not unusual. For instance the building manuf. is not providing the foundation are they? Most likely, it is by others so the foundation design needs to be prepared to accept loads that will be transfered from the roof and walls to the foundation. Don't be surprised if a geotech is required to determined if the soil where you want to put the building is required before the foundation design can be completed.

The manuf. should be able help you thru the process and most likely there will be a fee for them helping you getting to the building permit stage.

 

[buening]

I am a structural engineer. Do the following if you have not already:

1. Try to contact the original manufacturer of the building. The drawings probably have a job or order number on them plus dates. Using that information the manufacturer maybe able to look up and see if they still have the original computer file of the structural design of the building.

2. If the manufacturer has the original computer file of the structural design see if they will re-run it and check the building to see that it meets the code the county wants. Then see if they can stamp new drawings and send them to you if things check out. Of course this will all cost you.

3. Do yourself a huge favor and do #1 and #2 before you do anything else like looking for a third party PE to review the building.


Good luck

I agree, contact the manufacturer first and foremost. It is their engineering department that sealed the design. For a professional like myself, we would have to assume joint liability that the structure meets current code without ever seeing what calcs are done. Essentially, my **** is on the line if something happens even by giving you a small certification. It varies by engineer, but I would have to have the entire calculation set for review before I'd even think of certifying that it meets current code.

If they are asking for your building to comply with 2010 IBC (I am not familiar with a 2010 version ) Plus, the local jurisdiction is allowed to make changes to the model code they follow typically referred to as "amendments" That may not be the code for which the pre-fab building manuf. adhered to. A local design professional or a design professional employed by the building manuf. and licensed in your state needs to do a review and sign off on the design. Not unusual. For instance the building manuf. is not providing the foundation are they? Most likely, it is by others so the foundation design needs to be prepared to accept loads that will be transfered from the roof and walls to the foundation. Don't be surprised if a geotech is required to determined if the soil where you want to put the building is required before the foundation design can be completed.

The manuf. should be able help you thru the process and most likely there will be a fee for them helping you getting to the building permit stage.

+1 Foundations are never included in the pre-engineered buildings due to too many soil unknowns, frost depths, and local codes

 

[Highbeam]

I am a licensed civil engineer. Once I stamp those drawings I am responsible for the whole thing. The fact that someone else also engineered them does not relieve me of responsibility. I would still need to complete and verify every single calculation.

At best, it is only slightly less work than starting from scratch. Sometimes more work.

 

[Shadowdog500]

I hope this don't come over the wrong way, but did you actually talk to the town person who will actually review the drawing, or did you talk to the person/secretary who answers the phones and works the counter in the code department. When I put my building up I quickly learned not to trust anything the woman at the counter told me. If you haven't done it yet, talk to the engineer and find out what they need.

Chris

 

[tehach]

I had an earlier post regarding a building that I had interest in. Building is pre-engineered, never been erected and the county says the engineering is probably okay as it was destined for a mountainous region with a great amount of snow, wind, rain and a very active seismic region, where I am at, it is a flat valley and not to much of the aforementioned is a great concern. Although, their concern was that the plans need to reflect a 2010 CSBC/IBC requirement and all that is necessary is that an engineer write a letter of confirmation and wet stamp it stating so. How much review is going to take place and what kind of cost at the maximum are we looking at, beings the engineering is done, how much could the codes have change and considering that my area should be of a lesser requirement relating to the codes because of it's location and the higher demands for the area for which it was originally destined. If the cost gets out of hand, I may have to pass as it may not be feasible to go forth. Maybe I am missing something in the grand scheme of things, but for a building that is just two years prior to the 2010 requirements, wouldn't this just be a slam dunk review because all the work was done before, just stamp the thing upon reading the calc's and codes that I have in hand, if not meeting the 2010 code, make subtle changes and write a letter of confirmation stating so. I know you guys need to eat too, but hey, the work is already done, what little could have changed in three years and especially since it is just an agricultural purposed building. Thanks

1::1

 

[klaw]

I think in the original post it was recommended you contact the mfg. Did you talk to them?