Structural framing with pipe?

[long handles]

Anyone done it or have thoughts on it?

I've got a smoking deal lined up on some pipe and I'm leaning toward going the steel building route for my shop / garage. I've built sheds out of pipe before and steel buildings out of red iron, but building something larger like garage size from "scratch" out of pipe will be a first.

Ken

 

[milkovich]

Any specifics on the type and diameter? If it's thin, you could go spaceframe but I'm not sure if blackpipe has enough carbon in it to weld safely. Sure, it'll stick, but I don't know if I'd want it holding a roof over my head. If it's thick pipeline pipe (I notice you're in alaska) You may be able to get engineering numbers on it. At that point, I'd probably have an architect look at it.

 

[ProfessorCook]

There's nothing wrong with using pipe as a structural element. It's particularly well suited for columns. For flexure, it's not so efficient, but it can work. The tricky part, of course, is figuring out strong connections. There's probably welding in your future. Welding can work, of course, and it may be easy to do... it all depends on the material... the type of steel.

Do you know the specifics about this pipe?

 

[long handles]

4 1/2 production tubing, It's oil field pipe. The ID can be from 3.958-3.5 and weight between 12.75 lb/ft to 21.40 lb /ft.

 

[ProfessorCook]

I'm afraid I don't know what that is.

4.5" is a nice diameter. Pipes like that will be able to handle a decent amount of flexure. A structural engineer could look over your plans and tell you if the pipe will work for your configuration. Of course you'll have to provide true diameter, wall thickness, and somebody will have to figure out what sort of steel you've got there.

 

[scott37300]

I have heard that drill pipe is not worth the time to use, but I have no experience with it. Heard welding it is a pain for the average guy. That's why they get rid of it for so cheap, I have read some stories on a welding forum about getting "a smoking deal" on drill pipe and then end up not using it.

 

[ProfessorCook]

Hmmm... I bet that material is tough to work. But if you can reliably drill a hole through it and cut a slot in the end, I have an idea. You could slot the ends back a foot then drill a hole (or a couple of holes) through the tabs you created. You could then find a regular steel pipe with an OD just a tad smaller than the ID of the drill pipe. Weld up a connector piece using the regular steel pipe. Make a joint by sliding the slotted drill pipe over the connector piece, drill through the holes in the connector piece using the holes in the drill pipe as a guide, then bolt through. As you tighten the bolts, the drill pipe tabs should clamp down on the connector piece and the bolts prevent it all from pulling apart as well.

It would be a helluva lot of work, but it might just work.

 

[long handles]

I have heard that drill pipe is not worth the time to use, but I have no experience with it. Heard welding it is a pain for the average guy. That's why they get rid of it for so cheap, I have read some stories on a welding forum about getting "a smoking deal" on drill pipe and then end up not using it.

It's not "fun" to work with at all.

I've built fences, sheds, material racks, A frame gantry and other stuff out of the 2 7/8 before. Wore a respirator while welding the stuff because it stunk so bad when you put heat to it.

I'd bet every farm or ranch in places like Texas have some kind of building or fence made out oil field pipe.

 

[CraigFL]

You could build post and beam frame using the pipe. The structural connections are the hard part-- all those 45 degree cuts and multipass welds to fill them. I'm not sure how else you could approve structural connections without having it engineered.

 

[buening]

What are your plans for finishing the inside and outside? It'd be a pain in the rear to attach drywall and sheathing to. Think of all the holes you'd have to drill compared to just using a screw gun on a typical stick built building. You'd also need tabs installed to the pipe where a drywall/sheathing joint would occur. Remember, you don't have the 1.5" width to nail/screw to like you do with a stud.

You'd definitely be in for a ton of cutting, end notching, and welding but it can be done. The bottom and top sill could be all one piece and each stud's end would have to be end notched to fit to the sills. Those would then have to be welded, then a machine will need to tilt the panel in place due to its weight.

You'll still need to get creative when it comes to attaching trusses to the pipe, likely needing plates welded to bolt the truss to.

Can it be done? Yes. Will it take 5x the labor to build? Definitely, if not more. Keep in mind the walls will be HEAVY and the footers need to be reinforced accordingly.

 

[Steve from Socal]

4.5" OD 1/2 inch wall tube for building is going to be one heavy place! Simple things like drilling a hole in the pipe is going to a monumental task, not to mention just placing the pieces.

Steve

 

[long handles]

What are your plans for finishing the inside and outside? It'd be a pain in the rear to attach drywall and sheathing to. Think of all the holes you'd have to drill compared to just using a screw gun on a typical stick built building. You'd also need tabs installed to the pipe where a drywall/sheathing joint would occur. Remember, you don't have the 1.5" width to nail/screw to like you do with a stud.

You'd definitely be in for a ton of cutting, end notching, and welding but it can be done. The bottom and top sill could be all one piece and each stud's end would have to be end notched to fit to the sills. Those would then have to be welded, then a machine will need to tilt the panel in place due to its weight.

You'll still need to get creative when it comes to attaching trusses to the pipe, likely needing plates welded to bolt the truss to.

Can it be done? Yes. Will it take 5x the labor to build? Definitely, if not more. Keep in mind the walls will be HEAVY and the footers need to be reinforced accordingly.

I was thinking of building in the same manner as a pole barn and / or a red iron metal building.

 

[Vernon Tuck]

Hi there. I have a modest amount of experience building with 2 3/8" drill stem and 5 1/2" casing pipe. Pipe welded connections are typically made with "fish mouth" cuts. There are free computer programs that enable you to print templates (cutting patterns) on your computer. Once you plug in the numbers (pipe dimensions, angles, offset) into the program and hit ENTER you will see a weird curvy line on the computer screen. You print that and cut the paper along the black line. In my case I laminated the sheets and then cut them. This gives you something to wrap around the pipe. You make a chalk mark around the curvy edge, remove the pattern, and cut the fish mouth with a torch.

Even with all these goodies I find it very difficult to do. I built a pipe foundation for a roadside stand using the method. While I was pleased with the results I was not pleased with the time I took. But I'm getting old and perhaps you're young.

If you use the appropriate welding rod then oilfield pipe is entirely weldable. It is very very good material. Somebody else mentioned fumes. That is absolutely true of used pipe that has drilling mud residue inside. It may be the worst smell ever to offend my nose. Anything that smells that bad can't possibly be less than bad news for your health.

However, there is "new factory reject" pipe to be found. These are stems that were rejected during the QC stage of manufacture. That's the stuff to get. You don't care if it's "sub-standard" because it's still a fantastic product.

However, there are definitely special welding considerations for high carbon pipe. This does not mean that it can't be done however.

Finally, back to cutting fish mouths. For the common 2 3/8" stuff at least, welding shops sell a special cast iron, hinged collar that fits over the pipe, closes, and locks.

Each end of this collar is shaped for a different torch cut: 45 degree, 90 degree, fish mouth, and "orange peel" or some shapes I have. That's four shapes and two collars. They're pricey but they work wonderfully well. You just clamp it onto the pipe, strike up the torch, and drag the tip along the beveled edge of the collar. I don't know if they make 'em for bigger sizes but they probably do. In my opinion they are worth the money.

V

 

[38Chevy454]

but I'm not sure if blackpipe has enough carbon in it to weld safely. Sure, it'll stick, but I don't know if I'd want it holding a roof over my head.

As a metallurgical engineer, I can tell you that you have it backwards on carbon and welding. Too much carbon makes it hard to weld. Higher than about 0.35% Carbon in the steel you need to preheat and also pay more attention to your welding parameters.

Low Carbon steel, like typical structural steel, is around 0.10-0.20% Carbon and can be welded real easy. Pure iron with no carbon (not really commercially avaliable) would be easy to weld. Anything labeled or sold as "mild steel" will be less than 0.35% Carbon and you can weld without concern using whatever method you want (stick arc, MIG, TIG, Oxy-Acetylene for example).

If the orig post knew the material composition and mechanical properties of the pipe, it would be easy to make a judgment on the ease of using it to fab a building frame.

 

[Vernon Tuck]

I certainly don't have any education or credentials in metallurgy. But I do have a more than passing interest in it. This interest was born from my efforts to become a more proficient self-taught welder. This led to an interest in blacksmithing and blacksmithing paraphernalia and tools, heat treating, yada yada.

Finally, I began buying books on ebay and elsewhere concerning ferrous metallurgy. Essentially, I began to read on both the "old ways" and the "new science" of working, shaping, welding, casting, and forging ferrous metals.

To my surprise, although the old timers probably didn't know anything about "ferrite", martensite", "pearlite" and the like, they seemed to have figured out what worked and what didn't.

It's amazing to me what they accomplished through careful observation and crude record keeping.

V

 

[Rick Amsler]

I need info on how to lay out a 6" pipe fish mouth

 

[rickb801]

I have worked with oilfield pipe a lot. Cutting and coping is the least of the problems in working with it. The smell as mentioned is terrible and a lot of the seams have split open. Welding it can also be tricky as some of it seems magnetized and the arc goes all over the place. Using it for a fence or something similar is great but I wouldn't use it for a building.

 

[Sureshot]

I have also used alot of tubing, casing, drillpipe and collars. The tubing may stink and it may not. Depends on its past use and how clean it is.

I have thought of using smaller pipe for a horsebarn. My idea was to use the leftovers from a friends fab shop to strap the posts with light enough material to use self tapping screws to hold tin.(The stuff they throw away would make many cry but they build large drilling eqpt and their scrap is our treasure.)

It is entirely doable depending on your access to equiptment, your time value, local codes, and your expected outcome etc.

I like to use angle iron slightly larger than the pipe to make corners. sometines angle half the OD also comes in handy. You are not needing to make it a uniform strength or any fancy joints.

Do you have a history of the pipe? It can have paper thin spots from rod wear or corrosion pits etc. I like getting pipe from the inspectors as it is washed before inspection and subsequent rejection.

I cemented a collar off that pipe in my floor to hold my 6" pipe vise. The assembly threads in and out if I need the floorspace and I can make any other items I like to thread in.

I used 2 3/8 posts and a 2 7/8 to rail for my horse fence. Very little fishmouth required for that connection. I used 5 1/2 for bullards by my doors and the legs for my crane system. I also have a piece of 7" in the floor of the addition that is going to get a 5 1/2 post for a hydraulic motorcycle lift(a work in progress).

 

[Sureshot]

I need info on how to lay out a 6" pipe fish mouth

http://metalgeek.com/static/

Try this.

 

[shovel]

To answer the OP, yes, I have looked into it. I live on the upper Texas Gulf coast. In the counties north of me, there are LOTS of pole barns built from oilfield pipe. I live in the city limits, so I looked into getting engineering documents for some of these buildings. Several years ago, a feed store about 50 miles north of me was selling trusses made from oilfield pipe. They had crews of American Indians out of Oklahoma that could erect the pole barns in a couple of days. Nobody could offer any engineeering data. Nobody would return my calls when asking about engineering data. I finally gave up on the idea since anything I put in the city limits would have to be to code, meet windstorm requirements, etc.
If I were outside the city limits, I would have already done it though... Meanwhile, steel prices have almost tripled since then. Good luck to you sir.