billconner
Well-known member
Now I understand why the screw isn't so easy. I've never faced it so I don't have a ready solution. Your wedge and 2 screws or the right Simpson String tie plate.
Structural Stuff
- Thread starter the pitch
- Start date
billconner
Well-known member
Thinking more about this, if you do sister 2x6s, they'll have a flat spot resting on top plate. Just run a screw through top plate into it.
Just a thought.
Just a thought.
How is the rafter bearing on the top plate of the wall without a seat cut (birds mouth)?
The simplest solution from what you said are looking to do is to
1)collar ties go in the top 1/3 of the triangle. They prevent the rafters from being pushed apart at the ridge during wind events. You can you metal coil ridge strapping on the roof if you plan on reroofing in place of collar ties. R800 in the IRC has a description of that the size of the collar ties should be. (No less than nominal 1x4)
2) Install new ceiling joists 1/3 up the overall height of the roof measured up from the top plate of the wall. Install these first and nail them off according to the IRC chart in the R600 section of the code table R603.2(1)
3) Once the new ceiling joists are in place in theory you should be able to cut out the old ceiling joists.
My understanding on your project is
A) The ceiling joists and rafters run past the wall framing to form the eave/soffit framing on your home, correct?
B) The rafters lack bird mouths
you can probably use these to remediate the lack of birds mouth
I would probably pull the soffit down outside and try to gusset the rafter and ceiling joist in the eave together with some osb or plywood. You may need to install some 2x furring to pack the joist or rafter out with the other since they should be lapping next to each other. Then cut and fit a plywood gusset to the rafter and joist to make a solid triangle.
I'm personally not sure if this is worth whatever height gain you'll be getting but that is for you to decide.
I haven't thoroughly read through the rest of the thread so maybe I'm missing other important details.
The simplest solution from what you said are looking to do is to
1)collar ties go in the top 1/3 of the triangle. They prevent the rafters from being pushed apart at the ridge during wind events. You can you metal coil ridge strapping on the roof if you plan on reroofing in place of collar ties. R800 in the IRC has a description of that the size of the collar ties should be. (No less than nominal 1x4)
2) Install new ceiling joists 1/3 up the overall height of the roof measured up from the top plate of the wall. Install these first and nail them off according to the IRC chart in the R600 section of the code table R603.2(1)
3) Once the new ceiling joists are in place in theory you should be able to cut out the old ceiling joists.
My understanding on your project is
A) The ceiling joists and rafters run past the wall framing to form the eave/soffit framing on your home, correct?
B) The rafters lack bird mouths
you can probably use these to remediate the lack of birds mouth
I would probably pull the soffit down outside and try to gusset the rafter and ceiling joist in the eave together with some osb or plywood. You may need to install some 2x furring to pack the joist or rafter out with the other since they should be lapping next to each other. Then cut and fit a plywood gusset to the rafter and joist to make a solid triangle.
I'm personally not sure if this is worth whatever height gain you'll be getting but that is for you to decide.
I haven't thoroughly read through the rest of the thread so maybe I'm missing other important details.
firebirdparts
Well-known member
Okay, that helps a lot. This is a really bad situation in which to cut the ceiling joists, because they had advantaged geometry. It would really help the building to do the screws like you were talking about, especially in the corners. If the hip rafters were immovable then you have big areas of the building where nothing can go wrong. You could add some framing to enhance this joint, but unfortunately it's kinda ugly to add stuff to the existing wall. The screws on the other hand could be hidden.
Sistering to the hip rafter will be limited in length, but you could make a big improvement with that also.
Thanks for the response.
Can you think of another strongtie (or similar product) that installs from the interior? Tearing out the soffit is out of the question atm.
My ultimate goal on the project is to make sure the garage is structurally sound (without breaking the bank), secondary importance is raising the rafter tie. It's been where it is for 75 years now, but still, I'd like to beef it up. My hope is to have a liveable garage space when all is said and done - insulated and finished.
I got looking at it a little more today (it's warming up here finally). It almost looks like a 2x8 piece would make for better contact...The space between the top plate and the rafter is just about 7".
I had another idea of running a 2x6 (with a flat cut landing on the top plate) across to the opposite sides rafter and face nailing it...creating a scissor...I don't know anymore, holiday brain still.
firebirdparts
Well-known member
You have very few rafters in your sketch which could have a rafter tie. There are only two full rafters which have a rafter on both sides of the building opposite, and one of those goes through the hip peak, which can't sag. FWIW. So you really just have one pair of rafters that can be tied to each other and actually benefits. Just one pair. It's interesting.
You kinda don't need any of them, if you had the rafters attached beautifully to the top plates. But you don't.
You kinda don't need any of them, if you had the rafters attached beautifully to the top plates. But you don't.
firebirdparts
Well-known member
I think if you look at all those items you thought were rafter ties you'll have to admit there isn't a rafter on one end of several.
There are actually 5 "rafter ties" that span the 12'. But yes you are a correct, 3 of them are not connected to a rafter on the side that connects to the hip coming from the breezeway. They are are nailed into the top plate. I'm assuming at one point there used to be a rafter there (before the breezeway was added)
What do you mean by "if you had the rafters attached beautifully to the top plates"?
Could some structural screws up through the top plate, wood wedge, and rafter make for a "beautiful" connection? (mentioned by bill conner in a previous post with a photo)
Thank you