Structural support on unibody car

[mercifiknow]

Are there any websites or YouTube videos out there dealing with putting in structural support for body not to collapse? I’ve watched a ton of ‘Tube but maybe I’ve missed something. Is there a non-welding option for the support?

Need to replace rockers and pans. The joy of owning something you just can’t part with even though numbers say you should!

 

[speed bump]

Probably some decent information out there for 67-72 Chevy pickups as that's one that I see being braced for a total floor replacement. As far as unibodies, I'm sure the Mopar fruits have something for Cudas or Chargers

As far as non welded braces. If you can find bolt holes or don't mind using some self tapping screws sure you can do it that way.

 

[mercifiknow]

Speed,

Thought about the self tapping screws but I’m not sure it’ll hold. The car is in a mess. Actually not sure how the roof is holding it all together.

Are there places to measure to see where it’s square? I can think of places but not sure if there are right/wrong places.

 

[Jim greengo]

What kind of car?

 

[theoldwizard1]

Need to replace rockers and pans. The joy of owning something you just can’t part with even though numbers say you should!

What you really want is a frame rack. They have support that are clamped on to certain points. Cut out the old, weld in the new.

 

[TobeyA]

Look for videos about first gen Mustangs or Camaros. I just saw a Camaro have it's floor and firewall replaced on one of the TV shows a few weeks ago.

 

[mercifiknow]

Greengo,

Old Mercedes

 

[mercifiknow]

What you really want is a frame rack. They have support that are clamped on to certain points. Cut out the old, weld in the new.

Is that like a rotisserie?

 

[Wrench97]

No on a rotisserie you have to weld bracing in before cutting anything structural.
A frame rack is heavy usually I beam steel designed to hold the body straight, even then most weld bracing when cutting rockers out.

 

[mercifiknow]

No on a rotisserie you have to weld bracing in before cutting anything structural.
A frame rack is heavy usually I beam steel designed to hold the body straight, even then most weld bracing when cutting rockers out.

I’ll have to look at it on the web. Never seen one

 

[Steve from Socal]

From the sound of it and your pic is the car a 123? The chassis manual has datum points on the chassis that you can cross check BEFORE welding in the rocker. If you can't weld in supports in the door frames, get the car on the chassis unsprung and brace the floor with a tube or timber like a 4x4 just behind the rocker box.

 

[mercifiknow]

From the sound of it and your pic is the car a 123? The chassis manual has datum points on the chassis that you can cross check BEFORE welding in the rocker. If you can't weld in supports in the door frames, get the car on the chassis unsprung and brace the floor with a tube or timber like a 4x4 just behind the rocker box.

It’s a W114 250C model. I’ll look at my Mercedes shop chassis manual but I don’t remember seeing datum’s there but I’ll check again.

I’ll look at 4x4 position if possible. There’s nothing there so I’m not how this will work. I’ll try and upload the rocker pictures.

 

[mercifiknow]

Here are some of the pictures. The floor pans are gone to but I’ve not pulled up the carpeting yet to see how extensive it is but we sag when sitting in seat. So I know it’s bad.

 

[mercifiknow]

You can see the carpet clearly in the photos. Inner rockers and others are toast. All the way down.

 

[mercifiknow]

No on a rotisserie you have to weld bracing in before cutting anything structural.
A frame rack is heavy usually I beam steel designed to hold the body straight, even then most weld bracing when cutting rockers out.

I looked at the rack. I’m not sure how it would work but I’ll try and find a video on it.

Agreed about bracing but don’t have skills or a welder to do it. Been thinking about getting a welder. My plan was to fab rockers/ pans and have someone weld them in. No rockers/ pans are available anywhere for my model.

 

[Steve from Socal]

Take a pic or two of the wider area and the side of the car from behind the door to the cowl. With the door open.

 

[iagsxr]

Agreed about bracing but don’t have skills or a welder to do it. Been thinking about getting a welder. My plan was to fab rockers/ pans and have someone weld them in. No rockers/ pans are available anywhere for my model.

This isn't a beginner project. There are guys who make their living as body techs that would struggle to make this all come out.

Go south and find a rust-free shell.

 

[theoldwizard1]

I looked at the rack. I’m not sure how it would work but I’ll try and find a video on it.

A frame rack is primarily used to pull frames and sheet metal back to there correct position after a collision. The clamps and rack will hold everything in place as you cut out the structure.

 

[mercifiknow]

This isn't a beginner project. There are guys who make their living as body techs that would struggle to make this all come out.

Go south and find a rust-free shell.

I’m in the south and I think it’s been only in the south. Mercedes plugged their drain holes when putting in their seam sealers and they rust from inside out and best I can figure out there was a problem with the under coating and it rusted the pans out. The rest of the car has surface rust.

Also I agree that it’s a beginner project. Struggling to find someone to do the work. Currently called 3 shops and they are booked out 3-5 years.

 

[Wrench97]

There are not many shops that want that type of work, or have the ability to do it correctly, the good ones are always booked out well into the future.

 

[superspec]

It’s time for you to get a welder and start watching lots of video for welding and for floor restoration

 

[mercifiknow]

It’s time for you to get a welder and start watching lots of video for welding and for floor restoration

Been doing that. They certainly make it look easy…

 

[Tostal]

Some clamp-on adjustable door aperture restraints such as these might help the OP? e.g. :-

Pardon Our Interruption...

www.ebay.com

Fabricating new rockers and floor pans is a lengthy and difficult job. Is the Op sure that replacement panels are not available for his model of M-B, maybe they're available from a supplier in Europe or elsewhere, or possibly panels from the nearest similar sedan? model cut be cut/modified to fit?

 

[MBfreak]

Here is my take when rebuilding an 1963 230 SL. This is one of the illustrious cars that rust faster than most people can weld.
After 10 years complete and perfect. Won a prestigious award in a German car show. Best amateur rebuild.
The main man was my friend Jan, who has more welding cerificates than I can count. Including all the nuclear and gas disribution goodies.
Ola

 

[mercifiknow]

Some clamp-on adjustable door aperture restraints such as these might help the OP? e.g. :-

Pardon Our Interruption...

www.ebay.com

Fabricating new rockers and floor pans is a lengthy and difficult job. Is the Op sure that replacement panels are not available for his model of M-B, maybe they're available from a supplier in Europe or elsewhere, or possibly panels from the nearest similar sedan? model cut be cut/modified to fit?

I’ve contacted a couple of places in Germany and asked on Mercedes forums but I have come up with zero suppliers. I have found sedan replacement versions but the gauge thickness is 2 gauges less for rockers and for pans. Won’t hold up well. Also the rockers would have to cut, reformed, and re-broke to match. Not mention the hole for trim would have to plugged and then re-drilled.

 

[Tostal]

I’ve contacted a couple of places in Germany and asked on Mercedes forums but I have come up with zero suppliers. I have found sedan replacement versions but the gauge thickness is 2 gauges less for rockers and for pans. Won’t hold up well. Also the rockers would have to cut, reformed, and re-broke to match. Not mention the hole for trim would have to plugged and then re-drilled.

Presumably the panel gauge thickness for the rockers and floorpans is greater for the Coupe as it's a pillar-less body?

Have you tried this supplier, they seem to have rocker panels that might suit your car :-

Shop All Mercedes Parts | Adsitco

Mercedes parts for sale brought to you by Adsitco. Shop by year, model or category.

www.adsitco.com

 

[mercifiknow]

Presumably the panel gauge thickness for the rockers and floorpans is greater for the Coupe as it's a pillar-less body?

Have you tried this supplier, they seem to have rocker panels that might suit your car :-

Shop All Mercedes Parts | Adsitco

Mercedes parts for sale brought to you by Adsitco. Shop by year, model or category.

www.adsitco.com

Tostal,

Appreciate the looking for me! Adsitco has a horrible reputation in most Mercedes forums as not giving you what you order (returning them and getting your money back is not going to happen) and the quality is ****. That being said it was years ago that these issues took place and may have changed. Also the rockers only start at 1971 and mine is a ‘70 model. But I will ask as I’m not sure what the differences are.

 

[mercifiknow]

From the sound of it and your pic is the car a 123? The chassis manual has datum points on the chassis that you can cross check BEFORE welding in the rocker. If you can't weld in supports in the door frames, get the car on the chassis unsprung and brace the floor with a tube or timber like a 4x4 just behind the rocker box.

No datum’s in my Mercedes shop manual. I’ve been looking for chassis manual but no such luck yet. I’ll keep looking.

 

[mercifiknow]

Presumably the panel gauge thickness for the rockers and floorpans is greater for the Coupe as it's a pillar-less body?

Have you tried this supplier, they seem to have rocker panels that might suit your car :-

Shop All Mercedes Parts | Adsitco

Mercedes parts for sale brought to you by Adsitco. Shop by year, model or category.

www.adsitco.com

Forgot to say that yes AFAIK, the metal thicknesses are typically greater than a sedan. Mercedes sedans are built like tanks as well so maybe not for them, so they may be the same. Again, contours are different and trim too from what I have been told.

 

[mercifiknow]

Here is my take when rebuilding an 1963 230 SL. This is one of the illustrious cars that rust faster than most people can weld.
After 10 years complete and perfect. Won a prestigious award in a German car show. Best amateur rebuild.
The main man was my friend Jan, who has more welding cerificates than I can count. Including all the nuclear and gas disribution goodies.
Ola

That’s a beautiful car! Homemade rotisserie?

 

[mercifiknow]

Take a pic or two of the wider area and the side of the car from behind the door to the cowl. With the door open.

Steve,

I’ll try and get those today. Forgot about it the other day while out there. Getting old blows…

 

[jwilson645]

My questions are, how are you replacing floors and rockers without a welder and if you have a welder why would you NOT want to weld in the support braces?

You are going to want to use a jack and jackstands to get the car level and square and then brace it side to side and in a cross pattern to hold it square.

 

[m6z]

This isn't a beginner project. There are guys who make their living as body techs that would struggle to make this all come out.

Go south and find a rust-free shell.

This.

 

[mercifiknow]

My questions are, how are you replacing floors and rockers without a welder and if you have a welder why would you NOT want to weld in the support braces?

You are going to want to use a jack and jackstands to get the car level and square and then brace it side to side and in a cross pattern to hold it square.

I’m trying to brace it until I figure out what to do. I would NOT prefer to weld as I don’t have a welder or the skill. I agree that if I’m going to weld the metal in, I would weld bracing in.

Part of my problem is I think I have no where to place anything to level it out. I think the frame machine would be great to straighten, or at least keep it straight, but I don’t have $4-8k to buy one.

 

[MBfreak]

mercifiknow.
The structure is made from cheap cut offs from a metal building fabricator.
Car laser lined up according to the MB structural drawing, supplied from what toaday is calle MB Classic Center.
After that the 2 mm wall thickness 40x40 mm square tubes are welded in and line up again verified.
Then the fun starts.

Ola

 

[txvwnut]

What I have for the Volkswagens I do the heater channels on is a brace that bolts in place of the door hinges and the striker. Do the rocker panels first then do the floor pans and you should be good. I've done it this way on many of american sedans.

 

[mercifiknow]

mercifiknow.
The structure is made from cheap cut offs from a metal building fabricator.
Car laser lined up according to the MB structural drawing, supplied from what toaday is calle MB Classic Center.
After that the 2 mm wall thickness 40x40 mm square tubes are welded in and line up again verified.
Then the fun starts.

Ola

How did you get a structure drawing from them? What did you ask them about? They wouldn’t give the time of day...

 

[mercifiknow]

What I have for the Volkswagens I do the heater channels on is a brace that bolts in place of the door hinges and the striker. Do the rocker panels first then do the floor pans and you should be good. I've done it this way on many of american sedans.

Yes everything I see says rockers first then pans

 

[Tostal]

I looked at the rack. I’m not sure how it would work but I’ll try and find a video on it.

This might explain :- https://car-o-liner.com/products/

Bear in mind that your car was built in a time when body alignment wasn't measured down to the 0.01mm (or is it 0.001mm nowadays..)
Back then, if the doors closed reasonably ok, the panel gaps were reasonably even and the wheel alignment could be set to within the prescribed limits, it was probably considered to be just fine. Essentially, the point I'm trying to make is, not to be too concerned with millimetre accuracy, just ensure that the doors fit correctly (this needs to be checked at each stage along the way).
Same advice applies to jacking up and supporting the car - make sure the doors fit/open/close correctly before cutting anything out.

The 'clamp-on door aperture restraints' I mentioned in post #23 are, according to the supplier, adjustable and allow the door to be refitted while they're in position, to allow for door alignment checks. If you don't want to invest in these for a one-off use, you might be able to rig something up, maybe incorporate turn-buckles to allow some degree of adjustment. But a length of flat/box or angle steel would be even cheaper. And more rigid and can't slip. Don't forget some diagonal cross-bracing inside the bodyshell also (as others have previously advised).

As regards replacing rockers and pans? I can see that the rockers are 'toast' (inner and outer), but are the pans also 'toast' in their entirety? Maybe only the outer portions (i.e. edge of floor pan and inner rocker sections) need to be replaced - in which case you might consider fabricating repair sections and welding these in - this would save you considerable time/effort and alignment woes. Just a thought...

What's the condition of the rest of the car? Have you checked it out, especially around suspension mountings, chassis rails/members, doors, scuttle, screen pillars, rear fender arches/wheel boxes etc?

~T.

 

[Tostal]

Tostal,

Appreciate the looking for me! Adsitco has a horrible reputation in most Mercedes forums as not giving you what you order (returning them and getting your money back is not going to happen) and the quality is ****. That being said it was years ago that these issues took place and may have changed. Also the rockers only start at 1971 and mine is a ‘70 model. But I will ask as I’m not sure what the differences are.

You're welcome. I, too, perused various Mercedes forums. It seems people have been seeking replacement rockers and pans for the 250c going back 10 years or so without success. Adsitco was the only site that seemed to have rockers but I also noticed the adverse comments. The general work-around seems, at least for some people, to be to modify W114 sedan rockers and pans to fit the Coupe. I realise it's a lot of extra work but it has to be easier than trying to fabricate complete panels from scratch?

I also tried the classic Mercedes parts website but they require 3 digits from the VIN to enable a search. Also tried various Merc. classic parts suppliers in Europe. No luck, except https://www.niemoeller.de/en/catalog-f/w114c where I went down through the menu and found
https://www.niemoeller.de/en/w114c/w114c/B023/37 which showed Rocker as item 3 M-B part no. 115 637 03 35 (L) and 115 637 04 35 (R)
and https://www.niemoeller.de/en/w114c/w114c/B023/33 which showed Pans as item 1 M-B par no. 115 616 01 67 (L) and 115 616 02 67 (R)
I inputted these no's into the above classic Mercedes parts website, but these showed 'No Result', so presumably are no longer available.

~T.