Stuck drum brake: how to release?

[laurie71]

So I recently picked up a fairly rough 1970 Mustang (it was a 302 4-speed originally, but a previous owner swapped in a 351W and 3-speed auto). It needs driver's door glass and brakes to start with, so I started tearing down the breaks for rebuild, and got stuck.

The driver's side rear drum was seized on. I have about 6 hours into it over the course of 3 days. Multiple rounds of penetrating fluid (WD-40), smacking on it with a 3-pound sledge, heat cycling it with a propane torch... nothing was working. I finally decided to risk sacrificing the drum, and started whacking it from the sides (yes, at the risk of knocking the braking surface out of round).

When that didn't work I went to a full-on 12-pound sledge and took a good swing at the side of the drum. Then another, and another, then over to the opposite side and BOOM, it finally popped free.

I'd already ground off the show retaining pins from the back, and removed the wheel cylinder retaining bolts, so I thought I was good to go -- either the drum comes off, or everything comes off. But no

My guess is that the parking break cable must be holding it? I really don't want to cut that and have to replace it if I can avoid it. Any other theories why it's still not coming off, or suggestions for how to get it off?

Thanks for any ideas,

Laurie

 

[LXCam]

This might be a dumb question cause I've never messed with those cars. But have you backed off the adjuster or is there one that you can get too? You could also try drilling a hole in the backing plate to pry on the shoes and weld it back up after.

And speaking of holes since you already waled on the drum. How about drilling some holes in it and beating down on the shoes.

 

[laurie71]

Good question re. the adjuster, should have mentioned that issue! These have an access hole in the backing plate to get at the adjuster, and I have tried backing it off but it seems to be seized (and yes, I did release the self adjuster stop from the star wheel before trying to turn it).

Don't have a welder, so not wanting to drill holes... and especially not in the drum as I'll reuse it if I haven't wrecked it. Though I was about ready to cut it off and replace it when it popped loose, so I'll keep this in mind as a last resort...

Laurie

 

[cvairwerks]

For about $50 to replace the drum, just split it.

 

[laurie71]

For about $50 to replace the drum, just split it.

More like $80 locally, and I have a line on a possibly cleaner '68 I may end up picking up tomorrow, so I'm really trying to not be destructive... but yeah, I'm almost to that point

 

[Ditch]

Good question re. the adjuster, should have mentioned that issue! These have an access hole in the backing plate to get at the adjuster, and I have tried backing it off but it seems to be seized (and yes, I did release the self adjuster stop from the star wheel before trying to turn it).

Don't have a welder, so not wanting to drill holes... and especially not in the drum as I'll reuse it if I haven't wrecked it. Though I was about ready to cut it off and replace it when it popped loose, so I'll keep this in mind as a last resort...

Laurie

That is about all you can do that is non-destructive

 

[cvairwerks]

Check around on prices. A quick search and I found them between $27 and $72, depending on vendor and if it's a 9" or a 10" drum.

 

[Evilunclegrimace]

WD-40 is not penetrating fluid. Get some Freeall, PB Blaster, Kroil,etc and use that. Try to use an air chisel with a blunt end tool in it and vibrate the drum.

 

[toms73novass]

Does the car run?

A method that works well is put the rear on jack stands,put a few nuts just slightly on the studs to keep the drum from flying off and put it in drive get the rear wheels turning and hit the brakes.

 

[jimgood]

Most drums have threaded holes in the face for driving in bolts to back it off. Does yours? I've always found that's the best way.

 

[kd3pc]

drum puller???

 

[kkroger]

Most drums have threaded holes in the face for driving in bolts to back it off. Does yours? I've always found that's the best way.

Most drums don't have them, mostly those are found on foreign vehicles. and late models, First time I ever saw them as a working mechanic was on a Nissan in the late 80s... but a BIG Gear Puller will work and most likely the issue is rust around the hub Generally rust on the axle... unless it is a front drum and a lot of those had integral hubs. some of the later model stuff had retaining screws for the drums and rotors. if you use the puller you will probably bend some of the hardware, so you will probably need to buy new kits, Though grinding off the heads of bolts and hardware doesn't exactly strike me as "Non Destructive" the drum will probably need to be turned at the least and replaced most likely. the hour of my time to remove the SOB is worth more than the replacement drum... Just sayin.

 

[bdelmar2]

Initially you were probably stuck on the center hub, but when you got it to knock free you fixed that issue.

Now what is probably going on is the drum is worn quite a bit and has a ridge all the way around it, and the shoes are sticking on that.

Since you can't back off on the adjuster (not unusual at all) and even if you could the springs may still not pull the shoes back as every thing is probably rusty and/or worn.

Whenever I run into this I end up just pounding it off and then replacing/fixing whatever is left afterwards. Pretty much the only thing you can do.

 

[Al Borland]

With Fords, it's frequently stuck on the axle flange itself. Put penetrating oil in around the studs and around the center where it sticks thru the drum. Also try heating around the center, and tapping with a hammer while the center is hot. If/when you get it off file or grind the center hole slightly to prevent this in the future (If it's still usable).

 

[theoldwizard1]

Get out your grinder and cut it off !

There were several different sizes of drum used in that year, but rear 10 x2 seems most common. Bendix PDR0136 $9.73 on Amazon ! You get FREE shipping on orders over $35, so round up part numbers (I get them from Rock Auto) and place one order.


OR ...


OTC 6980 Heavy Duty Brake Drum and Rotor Puller

See if there is an auto parts store near you that rents tools for free and that has one of these. If you are using one of these, apply tension and then whack it a few times. Repeat.

 

[bczygan]

Hammer on the face of the drum between the studs to break the rust bond between hub and drum.

Reduce tension on the parking brake cable.

Just went through this.

Bill

 

[sberry]

I have stuck the torch thru the adjuster hole and burned it in half too. Had a disk with parking stuck the other day took me half an hour at least to work it off.

 

[laurie71]

Check around on prices. A quick search and I found them between $27 and $72, depending on vendor and if it's a 9" or a 10" drum.

Yeah, but the $27 ones aren't the same as the $72 ones...

WD-40 is not penetrating fluid. Get some Freeall, PB Blaster, Kroil,etc and use that. Try to use an air chisel with a blunt end tool in it and vibrate the drum.

I've heard people argue strenuously that WD-40 *is* penetrating fluid, and I've heard people insist that it's not... I really need to try some of the alternatives you listed and compare effectiveness!

Does the car run?

A method that works well is put the rear on jack stands,put a few nuts just slightly on the studs to keep the drum from flying off and put it in drive get the rear wheels turning and hit the brakes.

If the brakes were working well enough for that to have worked I'd never have started tearing them down

Most drums don't have them, mostly those are found on foreign vehicles. and late models, First time I ever saw them as a working mechanic was on a Nissan in the late 80s... but a BIG Gear Puller will work and most likely the issue is rust around the hub Generally rust on the axle... unless it is a front drum and a lot of those had integral hubs. some of the later model stuff had retaining screws for the drums and rotors. if you use the puller you will probably bend some of the hardware, so you will probably need to buy new kits, Though grinding off the heads of bolts and hardware doesn't exactly strike me as "Non Destructive" the drum will probably need to be turned at the least and replaced most likely. the hour of my time to remove the SOB is worth more than the replacement drum... Just sayin.

Correct, no threaded holes on these. Haven't been able to track down a large enough puller locally unfortunately... And yes, grinding stuff off is destructive, but since the hardware will get replaced I'm OK destroying that!

Initially you were probably stuck on the center hub, but when you got it to knock free you fixed that issue.

Now what is probably going on is the drum is worn quite a bit and has a ridge all the way around it, and the shoes are sticking on that.

Since you can't back off on the adjuster (not unusual at all) and even if you could the springs may still not pull the shoes back as every thing is probably rusty and/or worn.

Whenever I run into this I end up just pounding it off and then replacing/fixing whatever is left afterwards. Pretty much the only thing you can do.

Right, but with the shoe retaining pins cut I thought everything would pull free even if the shoes were caught on a ridge. Guess not...

With Fords, it's frequently stuck on the axle flange itself. Put penetrating oil in around the studs and around the center where it sticks thru the drum. Also try heating around the center, and tapping with a hammer while the center is hot. If/when you get it off file or grind the center hole slightly to prevent this in the future (If it's still usable).

That's exactly what the initial problem was, but I got passed that. Good tip on opening up the center though, thanks.

Get out your grinder and cut it off !

There were several different sizes of drum used in that year, but rear 10 x2 seems most common. Bendix PDR0136 $9.73 on Amazon ! You get FREE shipping on orders over $35, so round up part numbers (I get them from Rock Auto) and place one order.


OR ...


OTC 6980 Heavy Duty Brake Drum and Rotor Puller

See if there is an auto parts store near you that rents tools for free and that has one of these. If you are using one of these, apply tension and then whack it a few times. Repeat.

Wow, if I can get correct new drums that cheap I'll just replace without second thought! Thanks, I'll check the size (I *think* the rears are all the same, but there were several sizes for the fronts, but not sure on that...) I think I'm going to grab one of those pullers to have in the toolbox even if I get this job finished before it gets here...

Hammer on the face of the drum between the studs to break the rust bond between hub and drum.

Reduce tension on the parking brake cable.

Just went through this.

Bill

Yep, rust bond is broken now. Parking brake shouldn't have any tension on it.

I have stuck the torch thru the adjuster hole and burned it in half too. Had a disk with parking stuck the other day took me half an hour at least to work it off.

I don't have an OA torch (I really need to fix that!) and I'm hesitant to try that for fear of (a) collateral damage to the backing plate and (b) wrecking the friction surface of the drum with molten slag... If it comes to that point, I'll just cut the drum off and replace it...

 

[sberry]

It doesn't hurt the drum or the plate. I don't have a drum puller. Put the money towards a torch.

 

[454ragtop]

A drum puller won't work. The problem you have is the shoes hook behind the stop at the bottom, and that weird shaped "washer" at the top. If you been beating on it that bad with a sledge, and everything is rusted, give up the idea of reusing the drum. Just cut it off and move on.

 

[laurie71]

It doesn't hurt the drum or the plate. I don't have a drum puller. Put the money towards a torch.

A drum puller won't work. The problem you have is the shoes hook behind the stop at the bottom, and that weird shaped "washer" at the top. If you been beating on it that bad with a sledge, and everything is rusted, give up the idea of reusing the drum. Just cut it off and move on.

Guess the verdict is in... I'm surprised I didn't crack the casting with the 12lb sledge but if I'm going to sacrifice the drum, would a cold chisel work to split it? Seems like cutting it with an OA torch or grinder risks wrecking the backing plate and or the hub?

 

[Rlfd213]

Just cut the drum off. You said you already hammer in the pins on the shoes. And the brake shoes are probably junk anyway if the drum is stuck. Since you might be selling it out the extra couple of bucks into the rear brakes and you will make it back when the car moves. There are some areas to be cheap on and brakes aren't one of them.

 

[laurie71]

Just cut the drum off. You said you already hammer in the pins on the shoes. And the brake shoes are probably junk anyway if the drum is stuck. Since you might be selling it out the extra couple of bucks into the rear brakes and you will make it back when the car moves. There are some areas to be cheap on and brakes aren't one of them.

Totally agreed, and I was already planning to replace all internals. I was just balking at 70 odd dollars for a drum if not needed, and since it now will be, adding more cost if I can avoid it...

 

[theoldwizard1]

would a cold chisel work to split it?

Nope !

Seems like cutting it with an OA torch or grinder risks wrecking the backing plate and or the hub?

Grinder. Start at the outside. Cut the rim. Once you get into the center part, then maybe you can get the cold chisel in their and split it.

 

[laurie71]

Nope !

Grinder. Start at the outside. Cut the rim. Once you get into the center part, then maybe you can get the cold chisel in their and split it.

Sounds like a plan, thanks for the advice!

 

[Two Door]

A drum puller won't work. The problem you have is the shoes hook behind the stop at the bottom, and that weird shaped "washer" at the top. If you been beating on it that bad with a sledge, and everything is rusted, give up the idea of reusing the drum. Just cut it off and move on.

My OTC drum puller will rip the drum and linings from the shoes.

 

[theoldwizard1]

My OTC drum puller will rip the drum and linings from the shoes.

I am assuming it is a 6980. 40 years ago, I would have bought one of those. Now, I don't do enough drum brake jobs to justify it. At my age, I may NEVER do another drum brake job ! I guess I don't need that wheel cylinder hone I have been keeping for 40 years !!

 

[laurie71]

Well, I'd already ordered a puller when Rlfd213 said it wouldn't work so maybe I'll try it out before I get cutting, just to see if it works...

 

[kd3pc]

Well, I'd already ordered a puller when Rlfd213 said it wouldn't work so maybe I'll try it out before I get cutting, just to see if it works...

An adequate puller will work fine, may even pull some stuff with the drum.

bests

 

[6PTsocket]

When I have drilled those retaining screws, I found that virtually all the rust was under the head of the the flat head screw. After the rotor came off I was often able to easily unscrew the rest of the screw from the axle.

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

 

[454ragtop]

When I have drilled those retaining screws, I found that virtually all the rust was under the head of the the flat head screw. After the rotor came off I was often able to easily unscrew the rest of the screw from the axle.

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

Huh?

 

[laurie71]

An adequate puller will work fine, may even pull some stuff with the drum.

bests

Well, I already had the puller on order, so I'll give it a try when it gets here tomorrow (time allowing); if it doesn't work, it'll be out with the grinder.

 

[ratdoggy]

Pull the bleeder screws?

 

[KenC]

Try using an air hammer. Go all around the drum in the center. The linings may just be rusted to the drum. The air hammer vibe on the drum surface may break the bond. Helps to drive wedges between the drum and backing plate if you have room. Keep working them in as you vibe the drum surface.

The hammering may be needed even with the puller.

 

[ratdoggy]

When I have drilled those retaining screws, I found that virtually all the rust was under the head of the the flat head screw. After the rotor came off I was often able to easily unscrew the rest of the screw from the axle.

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

Huh?

Some cars have a screw holding the rotor on....
My Sedona did from what I can recall
Doesn't apply to this though

 

[laurie71]

Pull the bleeder screws?

Bleeder is part of the wheel cylinder, which I've unbolted and unhooked...

 

[laurie71]

Pull the bleeder screws?

Try using an air hammer. Go all around the drum in the center. The linings may just be rusted to the drum. The air hammer vibe on the drum surface may break the bond. Helps to drive wedges between the drum and backing plate if you have room. Keep working them in as you vibe the drum surface.

The hammering may be needed even with the puller.

I already broke the rust bond between the drum and hub, so the only hammering now would be to help the puller along I think.

 

[ttpete]

I'd be inclined to take the plasma cutter and cut a hole in the drum face to access the shoe retracting springs. After they're off the pin, the drum should come off with the guts inside.

 

[SIX225]

Did the wheel turn before you started all this? If so, I would say that the shoes are not stuck to the drum and there is a ridge around the drum not allowing it to pass over the shoes or the center register hub/face of the hub is seized to the frum. I understand not wanting to destroy the drum, but sometimes you have to. On the other hand, it makes for good practice when the next one is made of unobtaimium. Try finding a drum for a 1952 International L-122.

 

[kkroger]

I've had one once that the E-Brake cable was pretty rusty and when the customer applied it that was it. it locked up and would not release no matter what, we cut the cable close to the end of the housing closest to the wheel to get it to release... That was a Ford too incidently...