Stuck tap

[3cargarage]

Hello,

I have experienced this in the past and can't remember what I did but it was hell.

This is an M8 1.25 ancient harbor freight tap that decided to get stuck in the 9/32 hole that I drilled out for it.

I am trying vice grips and lubrication at this point but all I hear are major snapping sounds when I try to turn it (not the dreaded final snap sound yet). It actually sparks when I try to turn it by hand.

Any ideas before this gets even harder?

I have heat but almost always cause a fire when using it especially after soaking in penetrant.

Thanks!

 

[dcg9381]

I am trying vice grips and lubrication at this point but all I hear are major snapping sounds when I try to turn it (not the dreaded final snap sound yet). It actually sparks when I try to turn it by hand.

I'd cut a "slot" in a socket and weld it to that. Maybe two slots.
It has the by-product of introducing heat without an open flame. Welding close to the base might get you more area to spread the torque, depending on where it's about to crack.

Apparently if you're "really screwed" there are chemical alternatives.... But I don't think this is at "really screwed" yet.

 

[PCustoms]

Oil.

Work it back and forth and hopefully the chip clears. Odds are if you're seeing sparks you're fooked.

Snap it, then use a punch to break the rest. If that fails try the chemicals noted above

 

[JradM]

I would probably do just like PCustoms suggests and rock it back and forth, gently as I could, with oil. However, you could also heat the bejesus out of the tap in hopes of annealing it.

That's probably easier to do now with the end of the tap poking out than after it breaks and is stuck inside - assuming you don't want to ruin that hub too.

Taps are hard - very hard. That's what allows them to cut steel. Unfortunately hard also means brittle. Getting the tap HOT and allowing it to cool slowly ought to make it softer.

 

[PCustoms]

I would probably do just like PCustoms suggests and rock it back and forth, gently as I could, with oil. However, you could also heat the bejesus out of the tap in hopes of annealing it.

That's probably easier to do now with the end of the tap poking out than after it breaks and is stuck inside - assuming you don't want to ruin that hub too.

Taps are hard - very hard. That's what allows them to cut steel. Unfortunately hard also means brittle. Getting the tap HOT and allowing it to cool slowly ought to make it softer.

What do you do when the soft tap twists off?

I didn't suggest heat for a few reasons, the primary being this looks like a ln assembled wheel bearing.

With the tap being brittle you have a chance to crack it out. I've done this a few times with 1/4-20, had that not worked I'm not sure what other options a home gamer would have.

 

[3cargarage]

Suggestion on oil type? Motor oil?

Thanks.

 

[3cargarage]

....and it's a rotor/hub assembly on an MK4 golf just fyi....it's on the vehicle at the moment. Rotor mount screw broke as usual. I am a fire bug. Every time I torch anything it's a disaster.

 

[JradM]

What do you do when the soft tap twists off?

I didn't suggest heat for a few reasons, the primary being this looks like a ln assembled wheel bearing.

With the tap being brittle you have a chance to crack it out. I've done this a few times with 1/4-20, had that not worked I'm not sure what other options a home gamer would have.

You'd be hoping it wouldn't!

If it did though, I was thinking that way you could actually drill it out - that's not going to happen with a hardened tap.

I've had to crack a couple taps myself - it's a terrible experience, but can work if you're patient enough.

I still like your initial suggestion best. That's also probably what I would do, even knowing heat might be an option.

 

[PCustoms]

Suggestion on oil type? Motor oil?

Thanks.

Please tell me you used lubrication when you tried to tap initially?

I'd use a penetrating oil, as you want it to which into where the tap has galled.

....and it's a rotor/hub assembly on an MK4 golf just fyi....it's on the vehicle at the moment. Rotor mount screw broke as usual. I am a fire bug. Every time I torch anything it's a disaster.

Does the rotor mount screw actually anything? Why bother trying to tap it?

 

[JradM]

....and it's a rotor/hub assembly on an MK4 golf just fyi....it's on the vehicle at the moment. Rotor mount screw broke as usual. I am a fire bug. Every time I torch anything it's a disaster.

Wait, that's good news isn't it?

If your tap breaks off, just grind it smooth and don't run a rotor screw. It's just there to keep your rotor on when your wheels are off. When your wheels are on (or your caliper), it's not really doing anything.

 

[PCustoms]

You'd be hoping it wouldn't!

If it did though, I was thinking that way you could actually drill it out - that's not going to happen with a hardened tap.

Yeah, it should drill after annealing, assuming you hit it evenly (and it's not a carbide tap!).

I would not want to try it freehand, then I'd have a stuck drill too!

I've had to crack a couple taps myself - it's a terrible experience, but can work if you're patient enough.

I still like your initial suggestion best. That's also probably what I would do, even knowing heat might be an option.

First time I did it was out of desperation. Second time I really felt like a pro, a good punch and a few packs with an engineers hammer and bam, tap gone.

 

[3cargarage]

Please tell me you used lubrication when you tried to tap initially?

I'd use a penetrating oil, as you want it to which into where the tap has galled.




Does the rotor mount screw actually anything? Why bother trying to tap it?

I did....wd40 penetrating oil. The screw keeps the rotor in place while tightening the lug bolts. I didn't care when young but now that I am older it's a hedge for me physically to get all that **** lined up.

 

[3cargarage]

Wait, that's good news isn't it?

If your tap breaks off, just grind it smooth and don't run a rotor screw. It's just there to keep your rotor on when your wheels are off. When your wheels are on (or your caliper), it's not really doing anything.

Please see above for my reason on going the extra mile to have that screw.

 

[PCustoms]

I did....wd40 penetrating oil.

Can't help you now, but for future reference that's probably the worst "oil" for tapping holes

Also a ****** penetrating oil or lubricant in general.

The screw keeps the rotor in place while tightening the lug bolts. I didn't care when young but now that I am older it's a hedge for me physically to get all that **** lined up.

To each their own, seems like a huge hassle...

 

[garfunkle24]

Can't help you now, but for future reference that's probably the worst "oil" for tapping holes

Also a ****** penetrating oil or lubricant in general.

Maybe he meant this:

 

[3cargarage]

Maybe he meant this:

That's exactly it.

 

[3cargarage]

Can't help you now, but for future reference that's probably the worst "oil" for tapping holes

Also a ****** penetrating oil or lubricant in general.




To each their own, seems like a huge hassle...

WD40 Penetrant not regular WD40.

It's a real hassle without that screw. Maybe not 10 years ago but I am finding it to be now. If it used wheel studs like a normal car I would agree.

 

[Nutria]

Can you use a pick and/or compressed air to clear chips from the flutes? That should help.

If you end up breaking the tap, these can work if the planets are aligned.

Amazon.com

 

[isb cornbinder]

Hello,

I have experienced this in the past and can't remember what I did but it was hell.

This is an M8 1.25 ancient harbor freight tap that decided to get stuck in the 9/32 hole that I drilled out for it.

I am trying vice grips and lubrication at this point but all I hear are major snapping sounds when I try to turn it (not the dreaded final snap sound yet). It actually sparks when I try to turn it by hand.

Any ideas before this gets even harder?

I have heat but almost always cause a fire when using it especially after soaking in penetrant.

Thanks!

Do not waste your time and money on those multi=fingered tap removers. I can say, "I have never had one work as advertised.
A good heat source can be your TIG torch. This allows the heat to be controlled to a very small area.

 

[PCustoms]

WD40 Penetrant not regular WD40.

Never used it and assume it's playing off the WD-40 name.

Get a real tap oil in the future. I bought a small bottle of Anchor Lube and it's still going.l, best I've found yet

 

[garfunkle24]

Never used it and assume it's playing off the WD-40 name.

Get a real tap oil in the future. I bought a small bottle of Anchor Lube and it's still going.l, best I've found yet

You were already wrong once in this thread due to making an assumption (and in the process a little condescending to the OP). Instead of conceding that, you'd rather double down and throw shade at the product the OP did actually use?

Also, how is it "playing off the name"? Is any penetrant produced by a mfg that already produces other lubricants "playing off the name"?

Yes, proper cutting fluid would have been ideal. In the real world, I've tapped plenty of holes with whatever I could find that was vaguely wet and oily.

Also agree with ISB; Any tap that is really stuck will NOT come out with one of those finger extractors.

 

[RTM]

Last time I snapped a tap it was a 3/8-16, and it broke down in the hole. About 1/2 hour with a tiny cold chisel brought it out in pieces. I highly don't recommend this method.

What about something with electric heat, like a big old school soldering iron leaning on the tap? Would that be better than nothing, and less damaging than a torch? Asking those who know, cuz I don't.

 

[3cargarage]

Never used it and assume it's playing off the WD-40 name.

Get a real tap oil in the future. I bought a small bottle of Anchor Lube and it's still going.l, best I've found yet

Nah it's served me quite well. I can't say this wouldn't have happened with another lubricant and it's one of the few that are decently priced anymore. I can't keep paying 35 bucks for Kroil or 4x as much for liquid wrench post covid.

 

[garfunkle24]

I would just break it off and grind the web out with a carbide or diamond burr. Or soften it via annealing and drill out. Or just break it out with a punch. Freezing with an inverted air duster can help with this.

 

[3cargarage]

You were already wrong once in this thread due to making an assumption (and in the process a little condescending to the OP). Instead of conceding that, you'd rather double down and throw shade at the product the OP did actually use?

Also, how is it "playing off the name"? Is any penetrant produced by a mfg that already produces other lubricants "playing off the name"?

Yes, proper cutting fluid would have been ideal. In the real world, I've tapped plenty of holes with whatever I could find that was vaguely wet and oily.

Also agree with ISB; Any tap that is really stuck will NOT come out with one of those finger extractors.

I actually did have cutting fluid but I am in the process of epoxying my garage and it's a mess. Live and learn I guess.

 

[PCustoms]

You were already wrong once in this thread due to making an assumption (and in the process a little condescending to the OP). Instead of conceding that, you'd rather double down and throw shade at the product the OP did actually use?

Also, how is it "playing off the name"? Is any penetrant produced by a mfg that already produces other lubricants "playing off the name"?

Yes, proper cutting fluid would have been ideal. In the real world, I've tapped plenty of holes with whatever I could find that was vaguely wet and oily.

Really? Great input.

Apologies that I assumed the guy, with the stuck tap, used plane jane WD-40 instead of a proper lubricant.

It's playing off the name as WD-40 has been the "lubricant" of choice for as long as I can remember for a lot of people. Since it's really a ****** lubricant, it seems they released a special version that may actually be a penetrating oil. Still not tapping fluid.

Once I figured out WD-40 is crappy at getting things loose, I started using PB Blaster. Pretty sure that's all they initially sold, but I suppose they might have some different flavors playing off their original formula and fandom.

I hope you feel better after you called me out. Do you have any suggestions for the OP?

 

[3cargarage]

Really? Great input.

Apologies that I assumed the guy, with the stuck tap, used plane jane WD-40 instead of a proper lubricant.

It's playing off the name as WD-40 has been the "lubricant" of choice for as long as I can remember for a lot of people. Since it's really a ****** lubricant, it seems they released a special version that may actually be a penetrating oil. Still not tapping fluid.

Once I figured out WD-40 is crappy at getting things loose, I started using PB Blaster. Pretty sure that's all they initially sold, but I suppose they might have some different flavors playing off their original formula and fandom.

I hope you feel better after you called me out. Do you have any suggestions for the OP?

I prefer liquid wrench over pb blaster and wd-40 penetrant over liquid wrench.

It's all good....and guys I ordered the Chineseium version of the extractor earlier.

I am not in a major rush either way.

 

[garfunkle24]

Apologies that I assumed

Is the correct response.

 

[3cargarage]

Wonder if I should work a little harder at finding the cutting oil when it's light out. Probably too late all things considered.

I appreciate all of you.

 

[hobie18]

Can you take the hub off?

 

[Snip's]

" It actually sparks when I try to turn it by hand."

Well... That's bizarre....

 

[Davefr]

What if you heat the area surrounding the hole and then use freeze spray concentrated on the tap itself so it's not so tight. (same theory as installing bearings.)

 

[3cargarage]

Can you take the hub off?

Can you take the hub off?

Perhaps.

 

[WildBill]

If it breaks grind it flat and buy one or two of these for putting wheels on, saves my crappy old back when working on my Porsche and VW. Double check your bolt size. Cost $9.

Amazon.com

 

[garfunkle24]

What if you heat the area surrounding the hole and then use freeze spray concentrated on the tap itself so it's not so tight. (same theory as installing bearings.)

Differential heating wouldn't be a bad idea except for the issue of making the tap more brittle if you're wanting it to not break. For bolts, yes.

 

[PCustoms]

If it breaks grind it flat and buy one or two of these for putting wheels on, saves my crappy old back when working on my Porsche and VW. Double check your bolt size.

Amazon.com

Best post yet!

 

[garfunkle24]

Also, one other thing for anyone who may be perusing this thread: Regular WD40 is actually perfectly acceptable as a cutting fluid FOR ALUMINIUM.

 

[3cargarage]

If it breaks grind it flat and buy one or two of these for putting wheels on, saves my crappy old back when working on my Porsche and VW. Double check your bolt size. Cost $9.

Amazon.com

Finally, someone who understands the utter annoyance of holding large wheels and twisting everything waiting for it all to fall off the hub center! Never knew there was such a thing. Hmmmmm.

Although the original screws are supposed to be torqued at 3 ft lbs., I have never removed one without it breaking.

I ALWAYS have to drill them out with cobalt bits. Each drill bit size I go up, I try a reverse drill bit of the same size as a sanity check and have never been able to spin one out that way. Awful.

 

[Beerhippie]

If it breaks grind it flat and buy one or two of these for putting wheels on, saves my crappy old back when working on my Porsche and VW. Double check your bolt size. Cost $9.

Amazon.com

Made a couple of those from ??? bolts (I can't recall the size) years ago for my Vanagon. Those tires get real heavy while trying to line up the damned bolt holes. Front wheels use regular studs, but the rears are still the verdammt bolts.

Two of them make the job a breeze.

 

[jayemm]

I'd try dousing it liberally with an actual lubricating oil instead of thin penetrating oil and keep working it back and forth. If it breaks well then enough suggestions have already been given. I don't see what you have to lose by trying to get it out in one piece.