Stuck tap

[rust in the eye]

Jeez, Louise. Grab the tap with a vice grip close to the hole and work it back and forth to get the chips out. If it breaks tough ****, leave it. Cheap tap and it's only a rotor hold down screw which you can live without just fine.

 

[isb cornbinder]

Also, one other thing for anyone who may be perusing this thread: Regular WD40 is actually perfectly acceptable as a cutting fluid FOR ALUMINIUM.

I agree 100%. It works really well on Aluminium. threading and miling

 

[Jim greengo]

Hello,

I have experienced this in the past and can't remember what I did but it was hell.

This is an M8 1.25 ancient harbor freight tap that decided to get stuck in the 9/32 hole that I drilled out for it.

I am trying vice grips and lubrication at this point but all I hear are major snapping sounds when I try to turn it (not the dreaded final snap sound yet). It actually sparks when I try to turn it by hand.

Any ideas before this gets even harder?

I have heat but almost always cause a fire when using it especially after soaking in penetrant.

Thanks!

I'd grab it up close to the flange with vise grips.

 

[wyb2]

Although the original screws are supposed to be torqued at 3 ft lbs., I have never removed one without it breaking.

I ALWAYS have to drill them out with cobalt bits. Each drill bit size I go up, I try a reverse drill bit of the same size as a sanity check and have never been able to spin one out that way. Awful.

No help with your current problem but…

Sure sounds like a prime application for anti-seize. Hell, based on that description, blue thread lock would probably seal out moisture and ultimately make removal easier.

 

[whateg01]

Couple things...

Do I remember right that you started with a worn out old harbor freight tap? Mistake#1. I've used worn cutting tools before, but never do that with a Tap. Nothing good comes of it.

Do you recall it making any sounds right before it was stuck? Won't help you now, but remember those for next time.

I would leave it there, ground flat if needed, and it was going to suggest a bike with the head cut off as an alignment tool but for the price of that one linked above, I would just use that until the whole thing has to come off for something else. Then I would fight with it on the bench and/or mill.

 

[pizza]

haha. stop what you are doing. someone call the police, a man's life is at stake!

 

[jayemm]

Why all this ******' around. Just junk the car.

 

[Wrench97]

All this for the small bolt that holds the rotor in alignment with the lug bolts?
Cut the tap off flush and use a guide pin set to put the wheel on.

 

[haveissues]

If the tap breaks cant you just turn the rotor left or right and tap a new hole in the hub? And next time anti seize the **** out of that phillips screw they insist on using.

 

[timgunn1962]

Not wishing to be dense, but I'm not familiar with the Golf. Can you grind off the tap that's giving trouble, fight the wheel on without the M8 alignment stud in another orientation, use a transfer punch to mark for a fresh stud, take the wheel off, drill, tap and fit a fresh M8?

Edit: haveissues beat me to it

 

[Shoreline_]

Did you get it out? All this fuss with torches and jerking each other off lol. Lube it with an spray. Even **** *** wd40. Put reversing pressure on tap. Take an air hammer and rattle the **** outta the hat of the rotor around the tap but dont buzz the tap youll shatter it. Itll turn out

 

[cherrybomb]

I am on Eastern Standard Time, Hobbie. Its 11:00. I am done. Get that guy to stop. I will check in, in the morning.
Get him to order a tap socket set. Should be about 8 in a set. They look like deep impact sockets. Square end of tap engages a square socket in the bottom of the socket. Just below the top of the socket is a rubber oring. These two features securely stabilize the tap. A ratchet attaches. One hand is to be held on ratchet head to hold centered and to prevent any lateral force. Alternatively, he can get a collet that has a square female end for a ratchet. Two hands required also for the same reason. Tap socket will be most stable. He is way too green to safely attempt with square plug sockets. Keep blinders on that guy for now.

A sliding tee handle on the tap driver is a great option also as it centers the force,side force on a tap is never a good thing.

 

[RoninB4]

I've lost count of the number of broken taps I've had to extract. Not bragging, just qualifying my comments. From the OP's descriptions there's a good chance that this cheap tap will be very difficult to remove now that it's on the verge of snapping off.

I seriously doubt a full anneal of the threaded portion of the tap as the hub will act as a heat sink. Annealing and drill out will only re-create the original situation but now with much harder cheap tap material in the threads. My experience has been when taps start making noise, even good quality taps, you're already courting trouble.

Leaving the tap in a hardened state can allow it to be broken up with a small chisel but that's difficult to do unless you can create stress fractures correctly (no guarantees on that either). Besides the difficulty there's a good chance you'll damage the existing threads like that.

Sure there's carbide but that will only take out the core of the tap, the threaded "teeth" will likely still be imbedded in the hub material and you'll have to pick out the pieces that are now pressure sunk into the original metal.

My point and suggestion is that, because of the function, this tapped hole is not worth the time/effort. Either make a new hole and use a much better tap from HSS, or get some alignment rods as has been suggested. I've made some for when I have to struggle with wheels too. For the hours of effort required to return that hole to service you're not gaining much in return. Go around the problem and move on. JMO.

For those suggesting anti-seize on those machine screw threads I'd have my doubts about the screw staying in there. I've used thread locker (blue or purple) with good success at preventing rust from forming. I also detest those Philips head screws and substitute a socket head when possible with the internal hex filled with grease. Just a suggestion.

 

[PCustoms]

I also detest those Philips head screws and substitute a socket head when possible with the internal hex filled with grease. Just a suggestion.

How is a socket head going to work on a retainer screw?

 

[Chipm]

For those suggesting anti-seize on those machine screw threads I'd have my doubts about the screw staying in there.

Anti-seize is the ticket. Thread locker on a rotor set screw is not a wise suggestion. The screw only has to stay in while the wheel and caliper is off the car. It is a convenience screw, not relevant to function of the wheel/hub combo.

For factory fresh ones, remove them with a hand impact driver and a hammer. Then anti-seize the replacement.

 

[RoninB4]

How is a socket head going to work on a retainer screw?

-That depends upon the c'bore it sits in. One/both must fit the other. As a toolmaker I sometimes don't include details as to how that's achieved but I've done this at least 2-3 times by altering either the fastener head, the c'bore, or both.

 

[Chipm]

-That depends upon the c'bore it sits in. One/both must fit the other. As a toolmaker I sometimes don't include details as to how that's achieved but I've done this at least 2-3 times by altering either the fastener head, the c'bore, or both.

I am sure this would work, and some cars (Volvo, Tesla) use this option, but a quick swipe of antiseize seems a lot easier than machining a counterbore on the back of the wheel.

 

[PCustoms]

-That depends upon the c'bore it sits in. One/both must fit the other. As a toolmaker I sometimes don't include details as to how that's achieved but I've done this at least 2-3 times by altering either the fastener head, the c'bore, or both.

Wow, is that how counterbore work?

I've never seen a rotor/hub where anything but a fhcs. Altering stock hardware to fit is typically bad practice, especially when it's not called out on a print. Drives me nuts when I get called out to the floor because someone didn't detail something out and just listed a McMaster PN...

 

[RoninB4]

Anti-seize is the ticket. Thread locker on a rotor set screw is not a wise suggestion.

-Thread locker has worked for me several times in creating an anti-corrosion barrier. You do what works for you.

For factory fresh ones, remove them with a hand impact driver and a hammer.

-That works fine for "factory fresh" ones, motorcycle repair has been employing an impact driver for many decades. When things aren't factory fresh the factory methods often change. You do what works for you.

 

[RoninB4]

Well I can see that I've got critics here and I won't bother to defend my background, methods, or experience. I make suggestions and list them as such as either suggestions or an opinion. I don't make flat statements that apply in all situations. I'll reply on my experiences until something better comes along. You do you.

 

[rust in the eye]

Finally, someone who understands the utter annoyance of holding large wheels and twisting everything waiting for it all to fall off the hub center! Never knew there was such a thing. Hmmmmm.

Although the original screws are supposed to be torqued at 3 ft lbs., I have never removed one without it breaking.

I ALWAYS have to drill them out with cobalt bits. Each drill bit size I go up, I try a reverse drill bit of the same size as a sanity check and have never been able to spin one out that way. Awful.

Most German cars come with a wheel alignment pin in the trunk tool kit. I'll bet a dollar to a donut you have one lurking somewhere near the jack.
This really isn't worth any more thought or effort. If you can't turn it out by grabbing it low (I'll bet you can, your 9/32" hole is even oversized for an 8-1.25 tap) break it off, abandon the hold down screw and use the provided alignment pin for tire changes like it tells you to in the owner's manual.

 

[drmarkr]

61 posts and counting! GJ, baby!!

 

[claymont]

Grab the tap as close to the hole as practical to be able to turn it with vice grips or even an adjustable might work. Hit the top of the tap with a hammer while trying to move the tap back and forth. Something around an eight ounce hammer is what I'd probably use; make sure the hits are in a vertical direction.

 

[3cargarage]

Jeez, Louise. Grab the tap with a vice grip close to the hole and work it back and forth to get the chips out. If it breaks tough ****, leave it. Cheap tap and it's only a rotor hold down screw which you can live without just fine.

Why don't you do tire changes for me since it's so easy?

 

[3cargarage]

Most German cars come with a wheel alignment pin in the trunk tool kit. I'll bet a dollar to a donut you have one lurking somewhere near the jack.
This really isn't worth any more thought or effort. If you can't turn it out by grabbing it low (I'll bet you can, your 9/32" hole is even oversized for an 8-1.25 tap) break it off, abandon the hold down screw and use the provided alignment pin for tire changes like it tells you to in the owner's manual.

What page?

 

[3cargarage]

This and a few drops of Kroil got it out while rocking it back and forth a few times no hassle. Thanks for those who actually contributed.

 

[Wrench97]

Wow, is that how counterbore work?

I've never seen a rotor/hub where anything but a fhcs. Altering stock hardware to fit is typically bad practice, especially when it's not called out on a print. Drives me nuts when I get called out to the floor because someone didn't detail something out and just listed a McMaster PN...

Some of the euro rotors have a counter bore the screw head sits in.
Altering the counter bore means having to redo it whenever a rotor is changed.
Keep in mind the only thing this screw does is hold the rotor in place until the lug bolts are installed in the wheel....

 

[JradM]

Why don't you do tire changes for me since it's so easy?

If you get one of those alignment pins, the missing screw won't make tire changes any harder. Your caliper will keep the rotor on the wheel, the pin will keep the rotor aligned with the holes in the hub.

In fact, assuming this is a car with lug bolts instead of nuts, it will be a lot easier to change wheels. It's hard to hold a wheel on the hub while you try to get a lug bolt started. Much easier to line up one of the lug holes on the rim with the alignment pin.

Have you tried removing this tap yet? I want to hear what happens.

 

[bluedog225]

Thanks for those who actually contributed.

It is the way here.

Glad you got it worked out.

 

[3cargarage]

If you get one of those alignment pins, the missing screw won't make tire changes any harder. Your caliper will keep the rotor on the wheel, the pin will keep the rotor aligned with the holes in the hub.

In fact, assuming this is a car with lug bolts instead of nuts, it will be a lot easier to change wheels. It's hard to hold a wheel on the hub while you try to get a lug bolt started. Much easier to line up one of the lug holes on the rim with the alignment pin.

Have you tried removing this tap yet? I want to hear what happens.

Post 67.

 

[Max]

If you get one of those alignment pins, the missing screw won't make tire changes any harder. Your caliper will keep the rotor on the wheel, the pin will keep the rotor aligned with the holes in the hub.

In fact, assuming this is a car with lug bolts instead of nuts, it will be a lot easier to change wheels. It's hard to hold a wheel on the hub while you try to get a lug bolt started. Much easier to line up one of the lug holes on the rim with the alignment pin.

Have you tried removing this tap yet? I want to hear what happens.

Two posts before yours.

 

[PCustoms]

Two posts before yours.

Post before yours already pointed that out!

 

[Max]

Post before yours already pointed that out!

I can only type so fast….

 

[mikey03]

Can't help you now, but for future reference that's probably the worst "oil" for tapping holes

Also a ****** penetrating oil or lubricant in general.

yea but I mean if you do use wd40 to tap a steel hole what’s the worse that could happen?

i know he didn’t use straight wd40 but he solved the problem and laughter is good to keep the naughty thoughts away as my mom says

 

[3cargarage]

The tap will continue to turn with the right tool as mentioned above. That's what will happen with WD-40 penetrant.

 

[john.k]

Cheap taps round the cutting edges in hard iron or steel and stick tight before breaking ..............I got broken taps out with an oxy torch ...easy to blow away the solid centre of the tap ,leaving a few bits to take out with an old screwdriver.

 

[richfinn]

Order a new wheel bearing and hub flange or run it without the rotor securing screw

 

[cherrybomb]

What happens next time when we are gonna work on our vehicles,we access the situation!Instead of wondering if that crappy HF tap can do it one more time,with the help of the wrong juice in some tough material.We all learn as we go,we all make mistakes, our tooling gives up.I applaud the original OP for coming here to ask for advice,as I sense his frustration, as I have done.
Lets check are,What if drawer,and continue on wrenching and learning!

 

[JradM]

What happens next time when we are gonna work on our vehicles,we access the situation!Instead of wondering if that crappy HF tap can do it one more time,with the help of the wrong juice in some tough material.We all learn as we go,we all make mistakes, our tooling gives up.I applaud the original OP for coming here to ask for advice,as I sense his frustration, as I have done.
Lets check are,What if drawer,and continue on wrenching and learning!

It seems a little weird this was a problem in the first place.

If this was an existing hole and the OP was really only chasing the threads, then it doesn't seem like an old, dull harbor freight tap, even if it had been traditional WD-40 as the lube, was likely to be an issue. Obviously it was - and risked making for a big headache, but I might have done the same thing if I were in the OP's shoes.

In fact, I might even have done it dry!

 

[3cargarage]

What happens next time when we are gonna work on our vehicles,we access the situation!Instead of wondering if that crappy HF tap can do it one more time,with the help of the wrong juice in some tough material.We all learn as we go,we all make mistakes, our tooling gives up.I applaud the original OP for coming here to ask for advice,as I sense his frustration, as I have done.
Lets check are,What if drawer,and continue on wrenching and learning!

It seems a little weird this was a problem in the first place.

If this was an existing hole and the OP was really only chasing the threads, then it doesn't seem like an old, dull harbor freight tap, even if it had been traditional WD-40 as the lube, was likely to be an issue. Obviously it was - and risked making for a big headache, but I might have done the same thing if I were in the OP's shoes.

In fact, I might even have done it dry!

I think it was the part that turns the tap that crapped out. It was very worn now that I look back. I probably panicked because I remember something like this happening long ago and stopped turning the tap completely through the hole.

The story gets even more crazy. I then stuck an M8 1.25 4 grade bolt in there which promptly snapped and had to be drilled out.

Looking back, I never Inserted the tap in far enough so the screw for lack of a better term bottomed out.

With that bad boy stuck in there and never coming out I drilled a smaller hole in it and put an M6 tap in it while making sure I tapped through and got the original factory screw in there. The picture does not show the gorgeous new threads.

***Before anyone asks...I didn't continue to tap for an M8 because the heads for the tapered bolts I purchased did not fit in the taper***