Stud and truss spacing

[transamfan]

Hello to all, I am in the process of building a new shop. the concrete pad is 30x52, had a building on it that we took down to build a taller, nicer one. Anyway, walls will be 2x6 studs 12' tall.
I have 2 contractors with different specs. 1 is saying studs at 24" centers with trusses at 4' centers and other is typical of home construction with studs on 16" trusses at 24"
price is nearly $4k higher for the 16"/24" of course for more lumber & labor.


Metal roof and siding. Metal interior ceiling and walls. Full insulation- condensation blanket over roof, fiberglass batts in walls and when ceiling gets up, blown in cellouse on top that. The trusses at 4' will allow metal ceiling as they say those panels can span no more than 5'. It will be heated and cooled. Both builders say 2x4 purlins laid flat across top of trusses.

im in southeast missouri so snowload not incredibly high, no codes or permits to deal with where i am.

 

[mike93lx]

Hello to all, I am in the process of building a new shop. the concrete pad is 30x52 it was poured by previous owner so unknown why the odd size. Anyway, walls will be 2x6 studs 12' tall.
I have 2 contractors with different specs. 1 is saying studs at 24" centers with trusses at 4' centers and other is typical of home construction with studs on 16" trusses at 24"
price is nearly $4k higher for the 16"/24" of course for more lumber & labor.
Previous post frame had trusses 10' apart so is setting trusses on 24" with studs at 16" really needed??

im in southeast missouri so snowload not incredibly high

what does your local building code require? 24" wall framing is not super uncommon, look up "advanced framing".

are either builders using an engineer or are they going off what they know? if an engineer signs off on 24/48, I'd feel comfortable with it.

not sure what the climate is like in MO. maybe wind loading is something to consider.

 

[NUTTSGT]

Hello to all, I am in the process of building a new shop. the concrete pad is 30x52 it was poured by previous owner so unknown why the odd size. Anyway, walls will be 2x6 studs 12' tall.
I have 2 contractors with different specs. 1 is saying studs at 24" centers with trusses at 4' centers and other is typical of home construction with studs on 16" trusses at 24"
price is nearly $4k higher for the 16"/24" of course for more lumber & labor.
Previous post frame had trusses 10' apart so is setting trusses on 24" with studs at 16" really needed??

im in southeast missouri so snowload not incredibly high

It's going to depend on what you're using for a roof. A metal roof with 2x4 purlins will span farther than OSB sheathing and shingles.

 

[transamfan]

Yes metal roof on 2x4 purlins. Out in county so no code to deal with it. No engineer that I know of its just how they do them I think

 

[Stuart in MN]

Sounds like two separate roof designs. Putting the trusses at 4 feet on center is more like post and beam construction, and will require purlins running across the top of them to support the roof. Putting them at 24 inches on center is conventional stick built construction. I suppose it varies depending on location, but I've never seen 4 feet on center trusses on stick built walls.

 

[Radix2]

The truss drawing should show how they are designed to be used to achieve the stated strength. Trusses designed for wider spacing will be different from close spacing, purlin requirements different as well.

There is no free lunch, given the same final requirements, the total lumber required will be similar. At one extreme lots of lumber in the trusses, at the other lots of lumber in the purlins.

Do you plan on finishing the inside ceiling ? Otherwise a simple barn metal style roof favors having purlins for attachment.

 

[matt_i]

In my mind its about conditioning the inside space. If you intend this, then I would go with the traditional 16/24 and a full set of trusses. If its just dry unheated and uncooled space then the cheaper option will work just fine. The 16/24 will give you a place to easily setup a ceiling. With the 12' walls center-blocking between the studs (anti-buckle feature) may be required.

 

[Budman01]

Ask to see the engineered truss drawing, that will tell you the strengths of each design. I don’t see what or if you are using for siding?

 

[transamfan]

Metal roof and siding. Do plan metal interior ceiling and walls. The trusses at 4' will allow metal ceiling as they say span no more than 5' with those panels. Will be heated and cooled. Both builders say 2x4 laid flat across top of trusses. I don't have any truss documents since I haven't done the deal with either builder. Also cross blocking wouldn't be needed since girts on outside and inside for metal

 

[volaredon]

I built mine 100% on 16" centers, walls and roof and no trusses, all stick built. I sometimes wish I'd have used 2x6 studs but so far 12 years in and no issues. I did use 2x8 roof rafters and 2X10 ceiling joists cuz I put a full walkup attic in, above. 30'X36' size

 

[pattenp]

If using 2X6 for wall studs I'd go with the 24" centers. The truss spacing is your call depending on how you want to insulate and finish the ceiling.

 

[MrSurly]

the concrete pad is 30x52 it was poured by previous owner so unknown why the odd size. Anyway, walls will be 2x6 studs 12' tall.

This has me hung up. Are you saying that you have no info on the design or construction of the concrete? Are you assuming that "a slab is a slab" and it doesn't matter? I mean it DOES. If you are building standard stick construction, the slab is tasked with supporting the entire load of the building, wind,snow,uplift, deadweight, live loading, everything. Were there beams poured? What dimensions? What is the rebar schedule? Was the dirt compacted? Is there a vapor barrier? I wonder if you are assuming or if you have info about the pour?

If the slab is a total unknown, there's no way I would build stick build on it. You could go slightly larger (say, 3 x 56) and build a post frame with the posts set properly around the slab and then just pour out to the skirt boards to tie it together.
You really have to have a foundation, you can't just build whatever on an unknown slab, methinks.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[transamfan]

Concrete is good, 6" thick, thicker & rebar in certain areas for strength around the 2 post lift. It had a previous building on it already that has got us by for 7 years but it just wasnt what we needed so we took it down to build what we want.

 

[theoldwizard1]

what does your local building code require? 24" wall framing is not super uncommon, look up "advanced framing".

Done properly, 24" is plenty adequate. There are a few things that need to be done differently.

If you are going to use 4' truss spacing, I would request that the purlins be installed on edge, NOT flat. This will require that they nails hole are predrilled or the wood will split.

Check this series Farm Shop build series video 1. Your builder may not do all of the "little thing" this guy does, but I think the extra care he takes makes a stronger and better looking building.

 

[scooterboy]

2x6 Studs 24" on center is ok.
Trusses 4' on center will work if they are engineered per your needs.
Make sure the trusses are rated for your location and roof and ceiling materials used.
You need the specs from the truss manufacturer, they will show spacing required.
Don't let someone guess what will work for you.

 

[Handyfarmer]

I would go 24" on the walls, as an out building,

I personally would go 24" on the rafters, and ply wood, and sheet it with something under the tin, (tar paper, or some type of water resistant membrane, ( I have yet to see a tin roof that does not leak), at least in time,

I have a 118 year old barn I use as a shop 65 x60, 40 foot tall at the peak, with 2x6 24"oc studs and rafters, and two other buildings that are 24" oc, studs and rafters,

 

[8mpg]

Id do 2x6 on 24" centers and trusses on 24" centers. This lines the trusses to be inline with the studs.

Focus on air sealing the building if you are going to heat/cool. Fiberglass insulation is ok but the building is going to leak like crazy.

 

[larry4406]

When we changed our home designs from 2x4 to 2x6 walls for improved insulation, the office bean counters had us also change from 16" to 24" o/c to save money and our plans reflected that.

We soon encountered issues with the sheathing have more waves in it which telegraphed thru the vinyl siding. We had many costly repairs to do on finished homes. We had no recourse on the framer as it was framed to the then specs.

In your case, the perimeter walls are 164 linear feet. Neglecting window and door openings, this is approximately 82 studs at 24" o/c or 123 at 16" o/c for a difference of 41. Home Depot shows a 2x6x12 as $8.95 for a cost add of $366.95. I suspect your actual cost increase will be less once you account for your garage door openings.

I would spend the money and go 16" o/c. We found the cost add was chump change compared to the cost of siding removal and reinstallation, the frame labor repairs, and sometimes drywall repairs to remove the waves in the siding.

In less than one year we discontinued that practice and went with 2x6 at 16" o/c for the walls.

Regarding trusses, 4' o/c vs 2' cuts your trusses in half. I think you need to determine if you want a finished ceiling. I would think a 4' spacing would make installation of a finished ceiling challenging at best.

 

[tfb]

I thought the IRC limited studs to 10'. Or am I missing something?

 

[pattenp]

I thought the IRC limited studs to 10'. Or am I missing something?

I believe that's 2X4 wall studs.

 

[GMCGarage]

You need to check the load on the 2x6 wall, (DL, LL, WL,) and see if the design checks. If so, then check your top plate if the trusses dont line up with a stud below. 12' tall with that load could be an issue.

 

[theoldwizard1]

With 12' walls not perfectly plumb and true studs will "telegraph" tp the sheathing and then to the metal siding. Watch some of RR building video. Talk to you contractor and ask what he plans to do to make sure the walls are plumb and straight BEFORE the metal is applied.

Any time he says "Sure, we do that", make a note. Then right an addendum to the contract and make him sign it. On the first day of the build, find the foreman and give him a copy of the addendum (in plastic). Make sure he understands that these are important and if not fulfilled will cause delays. Start dates and number of days until completion need to be in writing with penalties. Don't be an *** about it. State that these can be changed when both parties agree.

If the contractor won't sign, it is time to go shopping for a new contractor


Segue - My son's reroof job including all decking had a page and a half long addendum. I was there when the material truck tried to drop 7/16" OSB when the addendum clearly stated 1/2". The foreman went over the addendum and then covered it with with his "lead" carpenters. In the end, every one knew exactly what was expected and that is what was delivered !

IF IT IS NOT IN WRITING, IT HASN'T BEEN SAID !

 

[6768rogues]

Either will work as long as an engineer designed it or if you want to stick your neck out and let the builder do something that he thinks will work.

 

[transamfan]

A few have said whatever the truss specs say is how they should be spaced. We don't have trusses, they have to be ordered and they will be ordered to fit the spacing that we choose. Just don't know if the extra 13 trusses and extra 2x6s are necessary. I do like the fact that with the 24/48 every truss will be sitting directly over a stud. I nixed 1 contractor that also was 24/48 but with 2x4 studs and another $1000 to go up to 2x6 but said I didn't need them...
For a deeper perspective, the 2 quotes are
24" studs 48" trusses $18500
16" studs 24" trusses $21600
Also, the 24/48 is wrapped with 2x4 girts, the 16/24 is wrapped with 1x4 girts

 

[8mpg]

Id still go to 24" spacing on the studs. Less studs will be more energy efficient.

 

[theoldwizard1]

Just don't know if the extra 13 trusses and extra 2x6s are necessary.

The trusses will be built to spec. No worries, but with 4' spacing. I would want my purlins on edge, not flat nailed. What "extra" 2x6s ?

I do like the fact that with the 24/48 every truss will be sitting directly over a stud.

If that is what you want (and it does seem logical) then GET IT IN WRITING !

Also, the 24/48 is wrapped with 2x4 girts, the 16/24 is wrapped with 1x4 girts

I am not a builder/contractor/carpenter, but I don't recall ever seeing girts on a stud wall. Spacing ? For standard wall heights, OSB sheathing is considered adequate to prevent the wall from "racking". Maybe because it is 12' tall ? And yes, you want the 2x4 girts.

 

[James-W]

When I built my garage (24X36 with 8 ft ceilings) I had the engineer do the drawings for 2X6 studs 16 inches on center. The trusses are 24 inches apart. It cost me a little more money to do it that way, but I have a much better built garage/workshop. I figured I am spending quite a bit of money to build it, I may as well spend a little more money and get something I am really happy with. The 2X6 studs allowed me to insulate better and the roof is solid as a rock.

I am sure you can save money by going with 2X4's and 24 inches on the studs as well as 48 inches on the trusses. If that is the way you want to do it, it should work out OK for you. But I think at some point down the road you may wish that you had gone the other route.

 

[mike93lx]

I am not a builder/contractor/carpenter, but I don't recall ever seeing girts on a stud wall. Spacing ? For standard wall heights, OSB sheathing is considered adequate to prevent the wall from "racking". Maybe because it is 12' tall ? And yes, you want the 2x4 girts.

I think he means purlins not girts

 

[astroracer]

I think he means purlins not girts

Girts go on the vertical walls. Purlins go on the roof...
Girts are used more on a post frame building to span the distance between posts. Usually 4' or more. Girts on a stick built are less common as the stud wall can carry the outer sheathing, nailing directly into the studs.
I would wrap the building with 7/16 OSB sheathing & house wrap. Then put up the steel. The solid panel sheathing will do a better job at controlling wind loads and the house wrap will greatly improve the sealing of the building.
Mark

 

[GMCGarage]

A few have said whatever the truss specs say is how they should be spaced. We don't have trusses, they have to be ordered and they will be ordered to fit the spacing that we choose. Just don't know if the extra 13 trusses and extra 2x6s are necessary. I do like the fact that with the 24/48 every truss will be sitting directly over a stud. I nixed 1 contractor that also was 24/48 but with 2x4 studs and another $1000 to go up to 2x6 but said I didn't need them...
For a deeper perspective, the 2 quotes are
24" studs 48" trusses $18500
16" studs 24" trusses $21600
Also, the 24/48 is wrapped with 2x4 girts, the 16/24 is wrapped with 1x4 girts

the whole idea of stick framing is not have to use girts. The stability of the building is by the plywood/osb being screwed or nailed to the studs. What will you use for building stability? Its not like you have any poles cantilevered out of the ground.

Best to talk this through with the contractor, and have him get a engineer to sign off on this design, sounds like you are heading towards some issues.

 

[transamfan]

"I would wrap the building with 7/16 OSB sheathing & house wrap. Then put up the steel. The solid panel sheathing will do a better job at controlling wind loads and the house wrap will greatly improve the sealing of the building.
Mark"
I like this idea of the sheathing and wrap to provide strength and a tighter seal. I can see where racking with the girts is a problem as the strength is all on the fasteners at each stud. how about interior girts (1x4) to attach the inner steel panels?

 

[astroracer]

"I would wrap the building with 7/16 OSB sheathing & house wrap. Then put up the steel. The solid panel sheathing will do a better job at controlling wind loads and the house wrap will greatly improve the sealing of the building.
Mark"
I like this idea of the sheathing and wrap to provide strength and a tighter seal. I can see where racking with the girts is a problem as the strength is all on the fasteners at each stud. how about interior girts (1x4) to attach the inner steel panels?

As on the outside you don't need them. The panels can screw directly to the studs. No sense losing any more interior space then you have to...
Mark

 

[8mpg]

"I would wrap the building with 7/16 OSB sheathing & house wrap. Then put up the steel. The solid panel sheathing will do a better job at controlling wind loads and the house wrap will greatly improve the sealing of the building.
Mark"
I like this idea of the sheathing and wrap to provide strength and a tighter seal. I can see where racking with the girts is a problem as the strength is all on the fasteners at each stud. how about interior girts (1x4) to attach the inner steel panels?

Definitely wrap the building in OSB

 

[transamfan]

have to have a girt because my panels will be ran vertically. cant put steel directly to studs unless I lay them horizontal and I dont like that.

on the exterior OSB, I just came from lumber yard and the price difference between the 2 will only be like $200 more to sheath the whole thing in OSB vs exterior girts.

 

[theoldwizard1]

I like this idea of the sheathing and wrap to provide strength and a tighter seal. I can see where racking with the girts is a problem as the strength is all on the fasteners at each stud.

have to have a girt because my panels will be ran vertically. cant put steel directly to studs unless I lay them horizontal and I dont like that.

In the old days when I was a wee little wizard in training, most garages had no sheathing, just wood lap siding. Before this type of siding was attached, all corner had to have "wind bracing". Typically this was a 1x6 running at a 45° from the top plate to the bottom plate but it is set in and nailed to each stud that it passes. No longer required with plywood/OSB sheathing.

With just girts space 2'-4' apart, wind bracing wood be an absolute must.

Also ask the builder what kind of hurricane ties he is using.

how about interior girts (1x4) to attach the inner steel panels?

They would probably not be called "girts" because they are not adding any structural support. I think most builders would call it a nailer.

Quality of 1by lumber is very sketchy. You might want to use 1x6 or 2x4 just to make sure they don't break ! More expensive, but consider using 7/16"-1/2" OSB on the interior under the tin.

 

[Bert_]

24" stud and 48" rafter spacing is common as dirt for any decent sized building that is getting tinned. Normally neither the walls or roof has sheeting just horizontal 2x's every couple feet to screw the tin to.

A least that's the way it has always been done around here.

 

[Leaflessshadetree]

My trusses are 8ft on center. I have added 2x6s on 48" centers to attach metal ceiling. It was supposed to have trusses at 4ft centers but the contractor didn't see a need for them.
Honestly it would have cost a little more but been less labor and resulted in a stronger roof.
My 12ft walls are 2x6 on 24" centers with a double top plate.
The trusses don't all fall exactly on the studs.

 

[transamfan]

So after a few weeks of back and forth with contractors, now I have no contractor. All of the recommendations I was getting here were not received well and 1 contractor told me I was "overthinking it and should probably find someone else" he said he builds his way, only his way and not what the internet people say. The other contractor I had picked out, well I got a chance to look at his work at another building and I have issues. No corner wind bracing, 1x4 girts that had splintered around screws in some spots. The steel is whats giving it its stability. the way it was studded up left an uninsulated pocket in the corners which I have read is a common complaint with studding this way and must be insulated during building. studs at 16" trusses at 24" like suggested here but NO truss tie plates that I could see. I think normally they go down on the inside of the top plate and are visible even with a ceiling. MAYBE they were used on the outside edge. MAYBE they used angle brackets on the side of truss to top of top plate but I doubt it. sill plate nailed to concrete with a method I hadnt heard of before but guy with me had. Drill a 3/16" hole, slip in some tie wire and drive nail into hole. I Think I prefer a method I seen using steel "L" brackets on the inside of the wall. anchor bolts into the concrete thru the sill plate and L bracket and bolted to side of studs every so often to hold wall down securely. I think this was done every 4' if I remember, definitely better than nails.

SO, I have decided on sticking to 16" studs and 24" on trusses and will be doing OSB sheathing as suggested here. the only problem now is finding a builder or making the time to do it myself.... we have the tools and most of equipment anyway to do it and from what Ive calculated I can save about 10K building myself

 

[Leaflessshadetree]

If I was a contractor I probably would have told you the same thing. Descriptions from the internet are easy to misinterpret and intermix.

That picture is pretty close to what I've got. Except mine are 24" on center and 2x6s for girts. I also did house wrap under the steel. Not sure it was necessary, but I think it was a good idea.
I did insulate the corners before the steel went up.

 

[GMCGarage]

So after a few weeks of back and forth with contractors, now I have no contractor. All of the recommendations I was getting here were not received well and 1 contractor told me I was "overthinking it and should probably find someone else" he said he builds his way, only his way and not what the internet people say. The other contractor I had picked out, well I got a chance to look at his work at another building and I have issues. No corner wind bracing, 1x4 girts that had splintered around screws in some spots. The steel is whats giving it its stability. the way it was studded up left an uninsulated pocket in the corners which I have read is a common complaint with studding this way and must be insulated during building. studs at 16" trusses at 24" like suggested here but NO truss tie plates that I could see. I think normally they go down on the inside of the top plate and are visible even with a ceiling. MAYBE they were used on the outside edge. MAYBE they used angle brackets on the side of truss to top of top plate but I doubt it. sill plate nailed to concrete with a method I hadnt heard of before but guy with me had. Drill a 3/16" hole, slip in some tie wire and drive nail into hole. I Think I prefer a method I seen using steel "L" brackets on the inside of the wall. anchor bolts into the concrete thru the sill plate and L bracket and bolted to side of studs every so often to hold wall down securely. I think this was done every 4' if I remember, definitely better than nails.

SO, I have decided on sticking to 16" studs and 24" on trusses and will be doing OSB sheathing as suggested here. the only problem now is finding a builder or making the time to do it myself.... we have the tools and most of equipment anyway to do it and from what Ive calculated I can save about 10K building myself

I think you compiled the suggestions correctly and made a good choice. Not sure why a contractor would argue with what you want, if you are paying for it. Seems that makes the contractor a dumb contractor, unless the work is just not safe.