Stud length?

[laurie71]

I'm almost done staging my lumber ready to start framing my garage and want to make sure I have this detail right...

I'm going for a 12' ceiling height, so Menards supplied 12' studs. I haven't taken the plastic wrap off the pallet of studs yet so I'm not sure how consistent they are, but a quick measurement suggests they are at or slightly over 12', not under as I half expected.

So, 2x6 sill plate + 12' stud + 2 2x6 top plates puts top of ceiling height at 12' 4 1/2". I plan on metal ceiling panels, not sure of their thickness off the top of my head. Alternatively, half inch drywall.

So I'm thinking I need to trim the studs to 11' 8" (140") for a top of ceiling height of 12' 1/2". That'll also allow the 4x8 sheathing to cover the sill plate and overlap the top plates enough to nail into them both, but still leave a 1/2" to nail the first row of gable sheathing panels to.

Any reason to trim to a different stud length, or does this sound right?

Thanks!

 

[rattle_snake]

Or return them and get precut for 12' ceiling. I think mine were 140.5" yielding top of top plate at 12'1".

 

[KenC]

Or return them and get precut for 12' ceiling. I think mine were 140.5" yielding top of top plate at 12'1".

Specially if he ordered 12 studs not 12' boards.

And, I would want the bottom wall finish off the floor by 1/2" to prevent moisture wicking, That's what you have with the 12'1" when using 1/2 drywall.

 

[Stuart in MN]

Your concern is about the taller walls not playing nice with 4x8 sheathing materials?

Given the choice, and as long as it meets local regulations or codes, I'd leave the wall height as tall as possible. What kind of sheathing are you planning on, and will it be covered with siding? depending on the material, you may be able to special order sheathing that's either taller or wider than 4x8. Alternatively, if it's covered with siding you just splice in another piece to cover the whole wall.

 

[RocketScott]

Cut them to 141. You want the wall to be 1-1/2” over 12’.

Outside sheeting will break in the middle of the top and bottom plates. Run a 4x8 sheet vertically at the bottom and then another horizontally along the top. Block behind the panel edges.

Inside Sheetrock will be a little higher but still work without cutting sheets for height.


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[readhead]

Metal will probably be 3/4" and if you use J trim that will be 1". What will the outside finish be? How will the siding work out?

 

[laurie71]

Or return them and get precut for 12' ceiling. I think mine were 140.5" yielding top of top plate at 12'1".

The trouble is that there's a lot more than just the studs in 2x6-12 lumber, so I can't easily just pick out the studs and return them. I also don't know if I can get them pre-cut without it being a special order, wait another week to get started...

I have a miter saw with a stand that has built in stops, so production trimming studs as I go wont cost *that* much time... On balance, I think I can get more accomplished in the time I have doing that rather than taking the time to pull, return, replace and re-stage what I have on hand.

 

[laurie71]

Specially if he ordered 12 studs not 12' boards.

He, meaning me? I told the Menards tool I wanted a 12' ceiling, and it spec'd 2x4-12' lumber for the studs. All the 2x4-12' lumber in the package is the same SKU, the studs material isn't specific.

And, I would want the bottom wall finish off the floor by 1/2" to prevent moisture wicking, That's what you have with the 12'1" when using 1/2 drywall.

Good point. In case I drywall the ceiling I should add 1/2" to my trim length for the studs.

 

[laurie71]

Your concern is about the taller walls not playing nice with 4x8 sheathing materials?

Sheathing, siding, drywall on the inside... yes, that's my concern.

Given the choice, and as long as it meets local regulations or codes, I'd leave the wall height as tall as possible.

Agreed, getting a slightly higher ceiling would be nice -- especially as I plan on having a lift, and that little bit of extra height could open up more options. But I have a gable wall with a lot of openings and I need to be very cognizant of shear strength there.

What kind of sheathing are you planning on, and will it be covered with siding? depending on the material, you may be able to special order sheathing that's either taller or wider than 4x8. Alternatively, if it's covered with siding you just splice in another piece to cover the whole wall.

The sheathing will be 7/16" RoyOMartin 8 Eclipse Energy Guard Foil Faced OSB.

Siding I haven't nailed down yet. I want a barn-style board and batten look, but realized using a zero maintenance product. Wall height probably won't be a problem to accommodate here.

 

[laurie71]

Cut them to 141. You want the wall to be 1-1/2” over 12’.

Outside sheeting will break in the middle of the top and bottom plates. Run a 4x8 sheet vertically at the bottom and then another horizontally along the top. Block behind the panel edges.

Inside Sheetrock will be a little higher but still work without cutting sheets for height.

140.5 makes more sense to me than 141; I'd rather the sheathing cover the sill plate. Actually, I'd rather it run an inch or two below the sill plate. But having it land 1/2" above the bottom of the sill, I'd have to embed some flashing -- which I think I could do...

As long as my sheathing is nailed to the sill plate and top plate I'm probably OK; I'd just prefer to nail into both top plates if I can make that work out.

 

[laurie71]

Metal will probably be 3/4" and if you use J trim that will be 1". What will the outside finish be? How will the siding work out?

Huh? I need to find the product I was planning to use and look at the specs. I thought it would be thinner than drywall.

So many details to chase down! Thanks to everyone for the feedback.

 

[Jlbc212]

I agree with Stuart in MN. Cut the studs to exactly 144" and keep the wall height as tall as possible. Use some metal "t" shaped braces inserted into a kerf cut diagonally into the studs to increase the shear strength of the walls. As to the extra sheathing that may be required, what will it amount to? Maybe an extra sheet or two of sheathing? Cheap investment to obtain those extra couple of inches.

Here's an article suggesting ways to increase wall strength:
http://www.finehomebuilding.com/2011/05/19/4-options-for-shear-bracing-foam-sheathed-walls

 

[RocketScott]

140.5 makes more sense to me than 141; I'd rather the sheathing cover the sill plate. Actually, I'd rather it run an inch or two below the sill plate. But having it land 1/2" above the bottom of the sill, I'd have to embed some flashing -- which I think I could do...



As long as my sheathing is nailed to the sill plate and top plate I'm probably OK; I'd just prefer to nail into both top plates if I can make that work out.

You don’t want OSB next to concrete

Your siding should hang an inch below the bottom plate.


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[d300]

Agree with ^^^
Use the studs as is and deal with the extra height. Depending on the chosen siding you can stretch the layout with trim boards. Splicing in a short piece of sheetrock at the top corner is a simple chore and easy to cover with a 12" knife.

 

[laurie71]

I agree with Stuart in MN. Cut the studs to exactly 144" and keep the wall height as tall as possible. Use some metal "t" shaped braces inserted into a kerf cut diagonally into the studs to increase the shear strength of the walls. As to the extra sheathing that may be required, what will it amount to? Maybe an extra sheet or two of sheathing? Cheap investment to obtain those extra couple of inches.

Here's an article suggesting ways to increase wall strength:
http://www.finehomebuilding.com/2011/05/19/4-options-for-shear-bracing-foam-sheathed-walls

Yeah, I was planning on using some metal bracing on the gable end wall with lots of openings. As far as sheathing, the extra material isn't so much a concern as needing to cut in a fill strip that's just a few inches wide...

 

[laurie71]

You don’t want OSB next to concrete

Your siding should hang an inch below the bottom plate.


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Well that's a contradiction If the sheathing hangs below the sill plate, it's going to be against concrete. I plan to use some sort of flashing there, weather I terminate the sheathing just above or just below the bottom of the sill plate.

Agree with ^^^
Use the studs as is and deal with the extra height. Depending on the chosen siding you can stretch the layout with trim boards. Splicing in a short piece of sheetrock at the top corner is a simple chore and easy to cover with a 12" knife.

Drywall is cosmetic, no worries there. It's the structural integrity of the sheathing that concerns me. I want to be able to nail off full panels at the top and bottom, and having a >12' height would mean patching in a filler strip somewhere in the middle...

 

[6768rogues]

As long as they are consistent in length, I would leave them full sized and deal with the difference in height. Anything that you do that requires 12 feet of height will be easier if you have a few extra inches of ceiling height. Want a lift that takes 12 feet? A few inches of extra room will allow for some lights that do not encroach in your 12 feet. Standing up 12 foot pieces of wood, pipe, etc. is easier with extra height. Moving long or tall things without hitting your lights is easier with a little extra height.

 

[ForceFed70]

Are you limited in height? Tallest they'd allow me was 12' before I had to have the walls engineered.

 

[TractorJeff]

Same deal!
Spec was 12 ceiling height minimum.
Roof limit overall height from Grade was 17 feet by Code.
Solved that by raising 12 foot walls with a 6 inch knee wall, then grading up to the top of the wall. Inspector measured his 17 feet, then later we lowered the outside grade!

 

[ForceFed70]

Same deal!
Spec was 12 ceiling height minimum.
Roof limit overall height from Grade was 17 feet by Code.
Solved that by raising 12 foot walls with a 6 inch knee wall, then grading up to the top of the wall. Inspector measured his 17 feet, then later we lowered the outside grade!

Nice. I noticed when I read the town bylaws that it said "natural grade" vs actual grade. Might not have gotten away with it over here.

 

[laurie71]

I agree more height is always nice to have, and I don't have any limits by local code on wall or roof peak height. Think I'll look at leaving the studs un-cut (and save that effort!) then figure out what to do with the sheathing.

A little extra work cutting sheathing to fit should be a lot less labour than trimming all those studs!

 

[RocketScott]

Well that's a contradiction If the sheathing hangs below the sill plate, it's going to be against concrete. I plan to use some sort of flashing there, weather I terminate the sheathing just above or just below the bottom of the sill plate.

OSB spaces the siding away from the concrete. House wrap goes behind the siding.

Best of luck with your build.


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[harleybear66]

for the drywall you could railroad 3 courses, 2 48 inch courses and the bottom course would be a 54 inch sheet

 

[laurie71]

OSB spaces the siding away from the concrete. House wrap goes behind the siding.

Best of luck with your build.

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Oh, I didn't read carefully enough the first time; got it. Thanks for clarifying, that makes perfect sense.

 

[laurie71]

for the drywall you could railroad 3 courses, 2 48 inch courses and the bottom course would be a 54 inch sheet

I always forget drywall can be had in odd-ball sizes Thanks for the tip, I'll keep this in mind when I get to finishing.

 

[rburke65]

Are you kidding me? Guys are fighting for an extra inch of ceiling height and you want to cut a some off?.....wow.....don't do it!

 

[laurie71]

Are you kidding me? Guys are fighting for an extra inch of ceiling height and you want to cut a some off?.....wow.....don't do it!

Oh, the irony! right?

I've been measuring boards, including one that must have come from a different batch as it is noticably darker in colour, and all have been exactly 12' 7/16" so at this point I think I'm comfortable not trimming.

Then I'll find that one board that's 1/4" short and start second guessing myself!

 

[Lelandwelds]

My first house had walls 8' 3" tall. It also had studs on 12" to 19" centers, rooms that werent square, and walls that werent straight. It had a roof valley which was dead level and didnt drain water.


I would worry more about flashing details than wall height. Bad flashing will pass inspection and cause major headaches down the road.

 

[laurie71]

My first house had walls 8' 3" tall. It also had studs on 12" to 19" centers, rooms that werent square, and walls that werent straight. It had a roof valley which was dead level and didnt drain water.


I would worry more about flashing details than wall height. Bad flashing will pass inspection and cause major headaches down the road.

The devil is in the details! Yeah, agreed, getting the flashing right is key.

 

[ez-duzit]

...I would want the bottom wall finish off the floor by 1/2" to prevent moisture wicking...

This. Keep it off the sub-floor.

 

[Orionrising]

Height matters for drywall though.. 8'3 is an extra annoying strip.

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[6768rogues]

I would buy a sheet or two or pressure treated plywood, cut it in strips, and put it at the bottom of the wall to make up the difference in wall height. If you have concrete, you can overlap it a little and water splashing up will not rot it.

 

[Sparkynutz]

I would buy a sheet or two or pressure treated plywood, cut it in strips, and put it at the bottom of the wall to make up the difference in wall height. If you have concrete, you can overlap it a little and water splashing up will not rot it.

Eaxctly! Use studs as is and keep the extra height. I have 9 ft ceilings. 1x6 treated against floor then 8ft of drywall then another 1x6 on top kinda like ceiling trim.

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[ez-duzit]

Eaxctly! Use studs as is and keep the extra height. I have 9 ft ceilings. 1x6 treated against floor then 8ft of drywall then another 1x6 on top kinda like ceiling trim...

That would have the tops and bottoms of the drywall landing on only air.

 

[Sparkynutz]

That would have the tops and bottoms of the drywall landing on only air.

12ft ceiling.... aren't the sheets running horizontal anyways? Even if they are up and down 12ft sheets would cost way more than its worth most likely. If they are horizontal then there is no difference between top and bottom of sheet. They are screwed every 16 or 24" on center just like where the sheet on top meets the sheet on bottom.

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[ez-duzit]

Pretty sure you want all edge seams backed up.

 

[firebirdparts]

I would buy a sheet or two or pressure treated plywood, cut it in strips, and put it at the bottom of the wall to make up the difference in wall height. If you have concrete, you can overlap it a little and water splashing up will not rot it.

You lose a little strength doing that, but you'd gain a little weather-resistance cheaply.

 

[laurie71]

Height matters for drywall though.. 8'3 is an extra annoying strip.

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Right; and it's not just the drywall, it's extra work for sheathing, potentially siding too (?). But I think the extra height is worth those hassles.

 

[laurie71]

I would buy a sheet or two or pressure treated plywood, cut it in strips, and put it at the bottom of the wall to make up the difference in wall height. If you have concrete, you can overlap it a little and water splashing up will not rot it.

Concrete was spec'd to come to 6" above grade but, after the contractor finished backfilling and grading I think I have less than that. I want to hold the sheathing up as much as I can because of that.

I'm thinking maybe a little metal flashing between sheathing and sill plate / concrete; full sheets railroaded horizontally, and the extra few inches of filler strip in the middle of the wall, so top and bottom I have max shear strength (especially on the gable wall with lots of openings).

Eaxctly! Use studs as is and keep the extra height. I have 9 ft ceilings. 1x6 treated against floor then 8ft of drywall then another 1x6 on top kinda like ceiling trim.

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Those trimmer sound like a nice way to do it, thanks for that idea!

That would have the tops and bottoms of the drywall landing on only air.

Not seeing that; 1x6 next to 2x6 gives a nailing edge, top and bottom. Screwed / nailed as normal across the field.

 

[laurie71]

12ft ceiling.... aren't the sheets running horizontal anyways? Even if they are up and down 12ft sheets would cost way more than its worth most likely. If they are horizontal then there is no difference between top and bottom of sheet. They are screwed every 16 or 24" on center just like where the sheet on top meets the sheet on bottom.

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Yep, that was what I was thinking.

Pretty sure you want all edge seams backed up.

I don't think that's needed, either for the sheathing or the drywall. I do need some horizontal blocking in the stud cavities with 12' studs, but that's just to provide a fire break. As far as I know no backing for drywall seems is needed.