Trying to help someone just replace some switches, the house was built by the lowest bidder (1996) and many of the switches were broken during installation by the "electrician". Anyway looking at the connections i'm wondering if the guy did an extremely hack job. Essentially in the electrical box where there are two light switches the whites have been wire nutted off and stuffed back, there are 2 blacks and a red going to each switch with one of the blacks going to a slot on the light switch that reads "for backfeeding only". The grounds were also twisted and stuffed back in the box un-used. Am I missing something or shouldn't there be black and white wires? Why are there 3 going to each switch, neither white (usually used for neutral) and whats up with the backfeeding slot? Any knowledge would be appreciated. Thanks.
Stupid Electrical Question?
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dimarcelli
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Neutral on a regular light circuit is never hooked to the switch. It only breaks the hot line. What your friend has are three way switches. Red is the traveler.
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theoldwizard1
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Maybe, maybe not !
Newer code (date ?) now states that if power is run to the load (light fixture) and then interrupt by the line to the switch at the load, that a separate neutral must be run to the switch box for certain "intelligent" switch devices. This require 3 conductors, plus ground.
The red is NOT a traveler in this case, just one conductor of the switch circuit.
dimarcelli
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Oops, yes you're right. Sometimes my fingers move faster than my brain lol.
Charles (in GA)
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I doubt the code in '96 required the neutral in the switch box, I think that came much later.
Cheap switches have the push in connectors on the back. It will be the same as connecting on the side terminal, it is not a different terminal. Two wires should have probably been wire nutted together with a pigtail to the switch.
Most switches have ground terminals, and if the face plate is metal, code says the face plate has to be grounded (which would be thru the installation to a grounded switch.
Charles
Cheap switches have the push in connectors on the back. It will be the same as connecting on the side terminal, it is not a different terminal. Two wires should have probably been wire nutted together with a pigtail to the switch.
Most switches have ground terminals, and if the face plate is metal, code says the face plate has to be grounded (which would be thru the installation to a grounded switch.
Charles
gatchel
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Really?
e-tek
Well-known member
Since that was your FIRST post I would normally cut you some slack, but also BECAUSE that was your first post I feel it prudent to start you off on the right foot here
You'll find people who want to do it themselves here. We want to do things ourselves and we ask others, with more experience, to help us get there. And more experience just means someone has done it BEFORE you, not that you can't do it.So welcome! Hopefully your next posts are questions on how to do something you haven't yet, or answers to share your expertise with someone who needs it.
e-tek
Well-known member
The switches used originally had both the push in and side terminals, the original installer opted to just jam them in then stuff the whole thing back together. A lot of the switches are just floating and I've found some that were screwed back in using dry wall screws. Anyway, I've checked 4 switches so far (no outlets yet) and found all 4 broken completely at the backfeed terminal. Needless to say I haven't been impressed. Not really surprised though, there was a housing boom here during that time and they were slapping the houses together as fast and as cheaply as humanly possible.
Face plates are all plastic, replacing them with new plastic ones (smoker) which is how this started.
And I hate hack electricians. Thanks for your "tip" but im not going to tell him to pay an electrician to install a few switches. I just wanted clarification of what I was looking at.
To everyone else who responded, thanks.
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zmaxmotorsports
Well-known member
The black screw will be the common,either power coming into switch or going out to feed fixture.
The other 2 wires will be travelers
The backfeeding is probably how they get power to the next switch in the box. So it's a kind of daisy chain. If you had outlets there's be 2x screws so you could daisy chain but with cheapo switches you either need to use the backstab (quick) or wirenut a "spider" from one source to each switch (time consuming).
Falcon67
Well-known member
Since you admit low knowledge, it was a good idea to ask for info.
But, if the house was contractor built it was inspected.
So the wiring was up to the code of the day.
If every this was working as expected before the switches were broken all you need to do is a one for one replacement.
You are diving into the deep end.
Three way switches are a bit confusing.
But, if the house was contractor built it was inspected.
So the wiring was up to the code of the day.
If every this was working as expected before the switches were broken all you need to do is a one for one replacement.
You are diving into the deep end.
Three way switches are a bit confusing.
JakeKohl
Well-known member
And inspectors never miss anything and GC's always make sure everything is always inspected....right. Dry wall screws holding the switches in place? That was a contractor with no aversion to cutting corners.
I've run into **** like this in my current home due to flippers that didn't know what they were doing, and no inspector in sight (hint: 18AWG lamp cord running an entire 20A bathroom circuit).
Only thing that looks like a licensed electrician touched was the panel (moved from it's original location).