Stupid Lighting Questions

[49stude2r6]

In trying to educate myself on lighting and lighting options, and using the search function I am coming up empty on some basic topics. I am sure the information has been discussed so I would appreciated any guidance to those discussions. The difference between T5, T8, T12?? Is T12 being phased out as in won't be sold any longer? The local box stores only seem to have a single T12 fixture in 8ft length with heavy duty/cold weather markings. Is there a place to find similar T5/T8 fixtures.

Again sorry if this is the 50th time this stuff has been discussed just point me in the right direction please.

 

[Chris Adams]

I know it is hard to search for T8 etc. because of forum search rules.

Diameter is the short answer.

Very short summary, use T8's.
Use 4 foot units unless you just enjoy spending money.

T12 is dead, the bodies are still just shambling around, they should lie down...

T5 costs a lot.



By the way, use Google search, "T8 difference Garage journal" to get you a ton of hits on threads.

 

[Cryptic1911]

yep, t8's are what you want.. kinda the best bang for the buck. if you want cheap 4ft t8 fixtures, they have them at walmarts for $9.82, and you can pick up cases of lights from 1000bulbs.com

 

[Charles (in GA)]

Eight foot T8's are usually four each 4 ft T8 bulbs mounted with a slight stagger and overlap of the connections in the middle. That is how I've seen them manufactured.

Charles

 

[49stude2r6]

Thank you guys for the help. Still not real clear on my answers. The forum hits seem to be a lot of vagueness with opinions on what is better or worse or more efficient or less, but with no real technical info as to why or what. Will keep searching.

 

[Chris Adams]

Thank you guys for the help. Still not real clear on my answers. The forum hits seem to be a lot of vagueness with opinions on what is better or worse or more efficient or less, but with no real technical info as to why or what. Will keep searching.

Don't see the confusion.

A t5 may use less power, but at the cost it would take your lifetime to save it. Plus, you need a bulb, if you can get one, it is gonna cost you.
So it is in the same category as LED.
Someday, it will make sense.

The T12 is obsolete. Being phased out. You can get them cheap, the ballasts will draw too much power, maybe make noise, maybe make radio static. An old technology, dying.

The T8 is the practical choice. They don't tend to make noise, they draw less power, they put out more light. They are the cheapest if you shop right, and their solid state ballasts mean you won't burn your garage down when it goes bad.
What kind of information are you looking for? That's the practical. The theoretic is available, but you didn't ask.

If you mean why is one better than another, just Google the terms T5, T8 and T12.
But it is esoteric and useless in the real world.

 

[pattenp]

Don't see the confusion.

A t5 may use less power, but at the cost it would take your lifetime to save it. Plus, you need a bulb, if you can get one, it is gonna cost you.
So it is in the same category as LED.
Someday, it will make sense.

The T12 is obsolete. Being phased out. You can get them cheap, the ballasts will draw too much power, maybe make noise, maybe make radio static. An old technology, dying.

The T8 is the practical choice. They don't tend to make noise, they draw less power, they put out more light. They are the cheapest if you shop right, and their solid state ballasts mean you won't burn your garage down when it goes bad.
What kind of information are you looking for? That's the practical. The theoretic is available, but you didn't ask.

If you mean why is one better than another, just Google the terms T5, T8 and T12.
But it is esoteric and useless in the real world.

This is not a totally accurate statement. T12 bulbs will be around for a long time, only the T12 magnetic ballasts are being phased out as of July 1, 2010. There are electronic replacement ballast for the T12. Also DOE exempted three types of T12 magnetic ballasts from the rule:

•T12 dimming ballasts that dim to 50% or less.
•2-lamp F96T12HO ballasts designed for outdoor sign applications where temperatures may fall to as low as -20F.
•Magnetic ballasts with power factors less than 0.90 designed and labeled for residential building applications.

With that being said, if buying new, you should go with T8.

 

[must8657]

best way to search this forum is to use google, type in "t8 site:http://www.garagejournal.com/" or go to the advance search page and input the info.

 

[AZ Garage]

This is not a totally accurate statement. T12 bulbs will be around for a long time, only the T12 magnetic ballasts are being phased out as of July 1, 2010. There are electronic replacement ballast for the T12. Also DOE exempted three types of T12 magnetic ballasts from the rule:

•T12 dimming ballasts that dim to 50% or less.
•2-lamp F96T12HO ballasts designed for outdoor sign applications where temperatures may fall to as low as -20F.
•Magnetic ballasts with power factors less than 0.90 designed and labeled for residential building applications.

With that being said, if buying new, you should go with T8.

X2...

T12's are slowly being "phased out". They are still being produced, and one can still purchase them, however T8s are replacing them.

T12 = 1-1/2" diam. lamp, higher wattage, less expensive, being phased out.
T8 = 1" diam. lamp, lower wattage, moderately priced, large availability.
T5 = 5/8" diam. lamp, lowest wattage, more expensive, moderate availability.

For a garage application, I would recommend a T8 application due to the fact of the large availability of lamp styles and ballasts. Down the line when T5s become competitively priced with T8s, I would recommend them.

 

[Chris Adams]

This is not a totally accurate statement. T12 bulbs will be around for a long time, only the T12 magnetic ballasts are being phased out as of July 1, 2010. There are electronic replacement ballast for the T12. Also DOE exempted three types of T12 magnetic ballasts from the rule:

•T12 dimming ballasts that dim to 50% or less.
•2-lamp F96T12HO ballasts designed for outdoor sign applications where temperatures may fall to as low as -20F.
•Magnetic ballasts with power factors less than 0.90 designed and labeled for residential building applications.

With that being said, if buying new, you should go with T8.

I'm told that T12's are one of the many, many things being phased out. Period.
Like incandescent bulbs, they will NOT be available, at least, here in the 'great' state of Kalifonia.

 

[49stude2r6]

So at my big box store I see T12 HO fixtures in 8ft lengths with the -20, to 90 operating range. I don't really see a good marking on the T8 fixtures as to their operating range. Do the T8s all work in colder environments ok?

 

[pattenp]

I'm told that T12's are one of the many, many things being phased out. Period.
Like incandescent bulbs, they will NOT be available, at least, here in the 'great' state of Kalifonia.

You are correct about California. California restrictions are more aggressive than what the DOE sets. The trend always seem to be what starts in California moves to the rest of the country.

 

[AZ Garage]

I'm told that T12's are one of the many, many things being phased out. Period.
Like incandescent bulbs, they will NOT be available, at least, here in the 'great' state of Kalifonia.

True, but only becuase of the lighting energy code, Title 24, which mandates less energy consumption with lighting, ince T12s consume more wattage than other lamps.

 

[Chris Adams]

You are correct about California. California restrictions are more aggressive than what the DOE sets. The trend always seem to be what starts in California moves to the rest of the country.

Lucky us.

 

[tfi racing]

T12 lamps and ballasts will NOT be permitted to be sold in Canada after June 2010,so start collecting if you want to keep your T12's.

 

[IanF]

Do the T8s all work in colder environments ok?

Temperature has no effect on the lamp itself. The ballast, on the other hand... however, there are -0c rated ballasts for T8 lamps. Home Depot sells a very cheap cold weather rated 2L T8 fixture, although the ballast quality is... sporadic at best (some fixtures last years... others last a few weeks).

 

[jmh21586]

And I just put up 9- 8' t12 lights in my shed. Love the light though. Like an operating room.

 

[Wow]

Yeah, I agree, T8s are the best bang for the buck. T5s are better, but they're more expensive. T12 TUBES will be available probably for the rest of our lives. They are however less efficient even with an electronic ballast. And don't even think about buying any lights with a magnetic ballast.

Also, I strongly suggest you stay away from 8' long tubes. These are also dinosaurs, and are somewhat hard to deal with without breaking...

 

[jmh21586]

Yeah, I agree, T8s are the best bang for the buck. T5s are better, but they're more expensive. T12 TUBES will be available probably for the rest of our lives. They are however less efficient even with an electronic ballast. And don't even think about buying any lights with a magnetic ballast.

Also, I strongly suggest you stay away from 8' long tubes. These are also dinosaurs, and are somewhat hard to deal with without breaking...

What does a magnetic ballast do??

I love the 8' tubes. Go up in a snap. Bet I could put up two of them faster than 4 of the others.

 

[Wow]

What does a magnetic ballast do??

Old old style of ballast that's been used since they invented fluorescent lights. It increases the incoming voltage, but at the same times makes a lot of buzzing noise, and extra heat, wasting energy. New electronic ballasts are completely silent, and instant start - no flickering.

I love the 8' tubes. Go up in a snap. Bet I could put up two of them faster than 4 of the others.

But, the average life on an 8' tube is around 12,000 hours. A T8 is around 30,000 hours. Now how much time do you spend changing tubes? Plus, what the hell do you do with an 8' long delicate peice of glass containing hazardous waste? I still haven't figured out what to do with 4' tubes...

 

[jmh21586]

Old old style of ballast that's been used since they invented fluorescent lights. It increases the incoming voltage, but at the same times makes a lot of buzzing noise, and extra heat, wasting energy. New electronic ballasts are completely silent, and instant start - no flickering.


But, the average life on an 8' tube is around 12,000 hours. A T8 is around 30,000 hours. Now how much time do you spend changing tubes? Plus, what the hell do you do with an 8' long delicate peice of glass containing hazardous waste? I still haven't figured out what to do with 4' tubes...

So if I left them on 24/7 I'd have to change them once every year and a half?? Doesn't sound so bad considering it takes about 20 seconds per bulb to change.


As for what to do with them....same as you would with a 4 footer. Either smash them in your garbage can or take them to a recycling facility. most places that sell them recycle them. Most for free.

 

[porschedude996TT]

T12 is 1-1/4" Dia (Old) Least Effecient
T8 is 1" Dia (Not as Old, in fact still current and the lamps are cheaper) Effecient
T5 is 5/8" Dia (Newest format and the lamps are more expensive) More Effecient???

And I guess when the make a T1 it will be 1/8" Dia

 

[jmh21586]

Aren't they all pretty efficient??

 

[Wow]

As for what to do with them....same as you would with a 4 footer. Either smash them in your garbage can

Oh for christ sake...please don't do that. While you're at it put up some PVC air lines and dump your old oil in the river...

or take them to a recycling facility. most places that sell them recycle them. Most for free.

Everywhere I've looked charges at least $3 per tube, and I have to drive them there. The only ones you can get rid of for free are compact fluorescents, DEFINATELY not 8' tubes.

 

[jmh21586]

Oh for christ sake...please don't do that. While you're at it put up some PVC air lines and dump your old oil in the river...

Never said I would or did. Lighten up a little.

Everywhere I've looked charges at least $3 per tube, and I have to drive them there. The only ones you can get rid of for free are compact fluorescents, DEFINATELY not 8' tubes.

So we both have the same problem whether they're 8' or 4'.

 

[Wow]

So we both have the same problem whether they're 8' or 4'.

Except 8' bulbs burn out 3 times as often. And they cost more to begin with. A lot of people will agree that 4' tubes are easier to deal with than 8'. This is why most large stores/warehouses lit with old 8' T12s are converting to T5 or T8. T8 seems to be the most common. The shop across the parking lot from mine does industrial lighting, that's about all they do, retrofit old T12 and other outdated light sources to T5s and T8s. That's their specialty.

The best way to think about shop lighting is to look up when you're in a well lit retail store. How do they do it?

 

[jmh21586]

Are there 8' T8's??

Is it just the ballast that needs to be converted or everything?

 

[Wow]

Are there 8' T8's??

Is it just the ballast that needs to be converted or everything?

Yes, there are...but they're meant for places with hundreds/thousands of tubes. You won't find them at Home Depot. You can get 8' T8 high output ballasts but if you're going to do that you might as well use T5.