SUB PANEL BOX and #2 wire

[earthmover]

going to be putting in a new sub panel in my shop..it is about 150' away from my meter box and main panel.. now I was looking at the #2 wire at lowes and a 125 amp panel...the #2 is aluminum under ground wire .. the shop will have 6 of the 6 ' 2 light per fixture and 2 of the 4' 2 light fixtures cross the back where my tools and bench is at..then I will have my 220 air comp.. and 220 welder and 220 a/c in which I doubt that the 3 will be used at the same time...I have wired in a total of 8 outlets and 1 nightlight dawn to dusk...I use this shop to work on my race car mostly and weld but in the summer time I keep the doors open and really don't run the a/c just got it incase ....so would the plan I outlined work???oh will be adding in a hanging heater 220 ..thanks

 

[alan camby]

Does the 125amp panel mean that you plan to use a 125 amp main breaker?
What size breaker in the house to feed this panel?

What is the size of the garage?

 

[wyliesdiesels]

#2 AL is good for 90a. What is the HP rating of the comp. and what size is the heater and A/C and what model welder do u have? Do u plan on using a plasma cutter, which would mean the air compressor being on at the same time?

 

[earthmover]

Does the 125amp panel mean that you plan to use a 125 amp main breaker?
What size breaker in the house to feed this panel?

What is the size of the garage?

no main breaker in it..it has the spaces for all the breakers I will need ..

http://www.lowes.com/pd_13088-296-H...L=?Ns=p_product_qty_sales_dollar|1&facetInfo=

also it will be feeding from my meter box that also has a main breaker in it which is a 200amp if I remember right..
the shop is 24/40

 

[earthmover]

#2 AL is good for 90a. What is the HP rating of the comp. and what size is the heater and A/C and what model welder do u have? Do u plan on using a plasma cutter, which would mean the air compressor being on at the same time?

the comp. is 5hp the heater (I have not got yet but looking at ) the hot dawg brand that you hang so I can keep my floor space ...my welders are (1) stick lincon (1) mig/gas harbor freight 220....a/c right now is a small 110 unit that's old but if something happenes to it it will be replaced with a big 220 volt..i have the shop wired for that just in case...but as I mentioned before most of the time if im in the shop in the summer time I have the doors open not a big a/c person..i work in construction (dump truck) and haul a lot of hot asphalt so I am use to it being warm..and here in nc its not really hot ...I have a big 36" shop fan I run most of the time that works really well for me....

 

[earthmover]

this is a shot of it before it was finished.. the comp. is a porta cable 5hp 60 gal.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

no main breaker in it..it has the spaces for all the breakers I will need ..

http://www.lowes.com/pd_13088-296-H...L=?Ns=p_product_qty_sales_dollar|1&facetInfo=

also it will be feeding from my meter box that also has a main breaker in it which is a 200amp if I remember right..
the shop is 24/40

the comp. is 5hp the heater (I have not got yet but looking at ) the hot dawg brand that you hang so I can keep my floor space ...my welders are (1) stick lincon (1) mig/gas harbor freight 220....a/c right now is a small 110 unit that's old but if something happenes to it it will be replaced with a big 220 volt..i have the shop wired for that just in case...but as I mentioned before most of the time if im in the shop in the summer time I have the doors open not a big a/c person..i work in construction (dump truck) and haul a lot of hot asphalt so I am use to it being warm..and here in nc its not really hot ...I have a big 36" shop fan I run most of the time that works really well for me....

FYI, u can only have 6 breaker handles before u need a main disconnect in a subpanel. U already have 4 with all the 240v equipment which leaves u only 2 more for lights and general use plugs. I would get a main disconnect panel!

You will probably get by with a 90a service to the garage with all that equipment.

 

[earthmover]

ok thanks for your help

 

[Gary S]

I wired my garage with #2 copper and a 100A breaker in the sub panel.

I don't have a 240v welder, but I do have a 240v compressor, and two 240v electric heaters. I have 14 lights and about 30 120v receptacles. I've never come close to maxing out the capacity of the box.

I suspect you would be OK.

 

[JoeFin]

Adding insulation and Sheetrocking the ceiling and walls would go a long way towards keeping the shop comfortable in summer and winter.

 

[alan camby]

no main breaker in it..it has the spaces for all the breakers I will need ..

http://www.lowes.com/pd_13088-296-H...L=?Ns=p_product_qty_sales_dollar|1&facetInfo=

also it will be feeding from my meter box that also has a main breaker in it which is a 200amp if I remember right..
the shop is 24/40

Maybe I am confused, but what is going to protect the wire from the meter to the shop panel. #2 will not handle 200 amp. Sure you might not ever pull over 90 amps at the shop but something has to protect the wire in case you have a short.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

Almost forgot to mention that you will need 2 ground rods, spaced 6' apart and make sure that the neutral bus bar is isolated from the panel enclosure and the ground bus bar!

Maybe I am confused, but what is going to protect the wire from the meter to the shop panel. #2 will not handle 200 amp. Sure you might not ever pull over 90 amps at the shop but something has to protect the wire in case you have a short.

He will need a 90a breaker @ the meter main!

 

[JoeFin]

but something has to protect the wire in case you have a short.

If that wire shorts its going to draw a whole lot more then 200 amps

Its the 125 amp loads on 90 amp wire the main in the subpanel is going to protect you from

 

[wyliesdiesels]

If that wire shorts its going to draw a whole lot more then 200 amps

Its the 125 amp loads on 90 amp wire the main in the subpanel is going to protect you from

HUH? The panel the op is considering buying has no main breaker in it. See post #4.

 

[alan camby]

If that wire shorts its going to draw a whole lot more then 200 amps

Its the 125 amp loads on 90 amp wire the main in the subpanel is going to protect you from

His subpanel does not have a main breaker.
Even if he did have a main in the subpanel, something need to protect the wire from meter/house to the out building.
As I read it, he is coming right out of the meter?? IDK

I am just asking, not trying to offer the solution.

 

[JoeFin]

HUH? The panel the op is considering buying has no main breaker in it. See post #4.

My mistake - I thought "No Brainer" the guy was going to put in a main breaker once you guys pointed it out to him.

Wouldn't it be sad to fill your garage with all kinds of cool stuff only to have it burn down with every thing inside because you saved $40 on a panel

 

[wyliesdiesels]

His subpanel does not have a main breaker.
Even if he did have a main in the subpanel, something need to protect the wire from meter/house to the out building.
As I read it, he is coming right out of the meter?? IDK

I am just asking, not trying to offer the solution.

Yeah, he's not very clear how he will be hooking up the feeder to his main service. Hopefully he reads this before doing any work.

 

[earthmover]

my meter box on my pole out side has a breaker box on it under the meter... it has a main in it...it has about 6 spaces in it for extra breakers and a 200 amp main in it that turns the power to my well and storage building off..once my shop is done the strorage building will be gone I just had it to keep my material in while I build my shop and addition to my house .......I will post a pic of the panel box that I have outside on the pole with the meter in it..

 

[earthmover]

Adding insulation and Sheetrocking the ceiling and walls would go a long way towards keeping the shop comfortable in summer and winter.

yes I plan to insulate and dry wall the building soon ...just have to wait a little now cause my work has slowed down a little cause of the weather ..

 

[earthmover]

this is the breaker /meter box outside my house....my house service runs of the meter all the other stuff is for my outside use.. well and storage building right now..but storage will be gone soon so I will have just 1 dbl pole breaker in there for my well ..the other breaker you see up to on the right side is the main 200amp

 

[2ManyProjects]

going to be putting in a new sub panel in my shop..it is about 150' away from my meter box and main panel.. now I was looking at the #2 wire at lowes and a 125 amp panel...the #2 is aluminum under ground wire ..

At that distance, aluminum AWG 2 is going to be marginal, at best. Even at only 90A (the rated maximum ampacity of that wire, per NEC), your voltage drop is going to be about 20% higher than the preferred limit of 3%. If you go to copper, AWG 3 will be adequate; but AFAIK, that is only commonly available in single-conductor THHN form,which means running conduit the entire way.

the shop will have 6 of the 6 ' 2 light per fixture and 2 of the 4' 2 light fixtures cross the back where my tools and bench is at..

I'm not sure what you mean by this. I am not aware of ANY six-foot two-tube fluorescent fixtures. Beyond that, without knowing the size/layout of the shop, it is impossible to even guess at what sort of lighting will be adequate.

then I will have my 220 air comp.. and 220 welder and 220 a/c in which I doubt that the 3 will be used at the same time...I have wired in a total of 8 outlets and 1 nightlight dawn to dusk...I use this shop to work on my race car mostly and weld but in the summer time I keep the doors open and really don't run the a/c just got it incase ....so would the plan I outlined work???oh will be adding in a hanging heater 220 ..thanks

As others have opined, 90-100A service will probably suffice; but it certainly isn't going to provide a lot of "fudge factor", given everything you have going on in there.

Does the 125amp panel mean that you plan to use a 125 amp main breaker?
What size breaker in the house to feed this panel?

What is the size of the garage?

no main breaker in it..it has the spaces for all the breakers I will need ..

http://www.lowes.com/_13088-296-HOM...L=?Ns=p_product_qty_sales_dollar|1&facetInfo=

That panel MIGHT be adequate from the standpoint of providing sufficient branch-circuit slots; but you WILL need to add the QOM1 main breaker mentioned on that page, in order to provide a local disconnect. Between this, and the various 240V loads you've already mentioned, you'll have eaten up 10-12 of those 20 breaker slots. Figuring two more for lighting, plus AT LEAST another two for general-purpose 120V outlets, and probably at least one more for a garage door opener, that will likely leave you with only 2-4 "spare" slots for future expansion and/or other contingencies. I'd call that "marginally acceptable", but hardly ideal.

also it will be feeding from my meter box that also has a main breaker in it which is a 200amp if I remember right..

Again, I'm not 100% clear on what you mean here.

If you are feeding the sub-panel directly from the meter pan, that meter pan will need to have a second set of output lugs in it, which it may or may not have (most don't). If you are feeding the sub-panel from your main distribution panel, then this is not an issue. Either way, you will ALSO need another breaker at the origination point of the sub-panel feeder, to protect that wire. If you use AL 2-2-2-4 MHF for the feeder, that breaker can be no more than 90A.

the shop is 24/40

Do you mean this is the size of the floorplan (presumably in feet)? If so, then I think your lighting plans will prove inadequate (or at least well less than ideal). Also, what about ceiling height? This will have a significant impact on the type & quantity of lighting needed, as will the way that ceiling and the walls are finished.

but something has to protect the wire in case you have a short.

If that wire shorts its going to draw a whole lot more then 200 amps

Its the 125 amp loads on 90 amp wire the main in the subpanel is going to protect you from

Wrong.

The "Main" breaker in the sub-panel acts solely as the local disconnect for that structure. Being located AFTER the feeder line, it CANNOT protect that feeder line. That's why he ALSO needs a (90A, in the case of AL 2-2-2-4 MHF) breaker AT THE SOURCE of the feeder.

 

[earthmover]

the lights may be 8' .......

 

[JoeFin]

Wrong.

The "Main" breaker in the sub-panel acts solely as the local disconnect for that structure. Being located AFTER the feeder line, it CANNOT protect that feeder line. That's why he ALSO needs a (90A, in the case of AL 2-2-2-4 MHF) breaker AT THE SOURCE of the feeder.

OK Smart Guy

Want to point out exactly which article in the NEC requires I install Overcurrent Protection at the service for a feeder

Waiting patiently for your reply

 

[earthmover]

here is 2 shots of how the lights are and they are 8' I plan to add 2 more of them and keep the 4' in the back as they are

 

[2ManyProjects]

OK Smart Guy

Want to point out exactly which article in the NEC requires I install Overcurrent Protection at the service for a feeder

Waiting patiently for your reply

I'll let you do your own homework, re: chapter & verse.

In the meantime, it's simple common sense: In the context of the main service panel, the sub-panel feeder is simply another branch circuit. Obviously enough, ALL branch circuits MUST have an appropriate overcurrent protection device installed so as to protect the current-carrying conductor(s). A breaker installed downstream of the feeder does NOT "protect" the conductors in that feeder.

 

[2ManyProjects]

here is 2 shots of how the lights are and they are 8' I plan to add 2 more of them and keep the 4' in the back as they are

I cannot be certain from the pictures; but these appear to possibly be old-style T12 tubes/fixtures. If that is the case, I would strongly recommend that you NOT install any more of them -- particularly ones requiring 8-foot tubes -- at this point. Quite beyond their poor efficiency (but indirectly because of it), replacement tubes are soon going to become near-impossible to find, or maybe already have. See http://www.topbulb.com/find/fluorescent_light_bulbs.asp for the "why".

 

[Aceman]

Following the tap rules of 240.21(B)5 I could land the #2 AL right on the buss of the metermain with nothing more than the 200 amp main ahead of it.

I would not do that however since there is a spot for a 2 pole breaker available.

 

[JoeFin]

I'll let you do your own homework, re: chapter & verse.

Pretty Weasely Reply 2Manyprojects kinda like welching on a bet

Because it is NOT Required by the NEC

Wouldn't be so bad if you strutted your Peacock Feathers little less and laid off the Keyboard Commando Routine and just contributed to the subject matter at hand. Just say you don't know the correct answer and you were trying to impress everyone with a bunch of BS and move on

225 part B btw.

 

[pattenp]

I thought that NEC 215.3 does. No/Yes?

OK Smart Guy

Want to point out exactly which article in the NEC requires I install Overcurrent Protection at the service for a feeder

Waiting patiently for your reply

 

[earthmover]

 

[wyliesdiesels]

Awww, let the code debates begin! Unfortunately, I dont think "2many" has a code book....

Following the tap rules of 240.21(B)5 I could land the #2 AL right on the buss of the metermain with nothing more than the 200 amp main ahead of it.

I would not do that however since there is a spot for a 2 pole breaker available.

Reading 240.21(b) tells me that conductors can be tapped to a feeder. Im not sure a buss can be counted as a feeder, because reading the definition of a feeder tells me its a conductor between service equipment and the final branch-circuit overcurrent protection. The NEC doesnt even have a definition of a 'buss'...

And 215.3 doesnt provide any exceptions to our situation....

 

[JoeFin]

I thought that NEC 215.3 does. No/Yes?

225 part B - More then One Building or Other Structures

The guy was talking about a detached garage, was he not

 

[pattenp]

I reread all the post and I misunderstood what was being said. I was thinking it was being said that the feeder didn't need over current protection. That's why I posted the 215.3.

Awww, let the code debates begin! Unfortunately, I dont think "2many" has a code book....



Reading 240.21(b) tells me that conductors can be tapped to a feeder. Im not sure a buss can be counted as a feeder, because reading the definition of a feeder tells me its a conductor between service equipment and the final branch-circuit overcurrent protection. The NEC doesnt even have a definition of a 'buss'...

And 215.3 doesnt provide any exceptions to our situation....

 

[pattenp]

Yes he has a detached garage and 225 Section II covers feeders and disconnecting means to other structures . I thought the issue was the need for over current protection of the feeder. I'll go back to sleep now.

225 part B - More then One Building or Other Structures

The guy was talking about a detached garage, was he not

 

[earthmover]

ok guys so will what I am doing work????can I come out my meter/breaker box with #2 to my shop and finish wiring????do I have to have a main in the panel box in the shop since there is a main in the box I am coming out of??

here is a list of the feeds
outlets on right side of the wall 1 feed of wire / single pole
outlets on left side of the wall 1 feed / single pole
air comp. just 1 feed / dbl pole
welder just 1 feed / dbl pole
a/c just 1 feed / dbl pole


so I have 2 single pole and 3 dbl pole circuits I need to feed..
also 1 feed for night light that's a single pole or I can just install that between the outlet circuit and not need another feed..

 

[2ManyProjects]

Following the tap rules of 240.21(B)5 ...

225 part B btw.

I thought that NEC 215.3 does.

Awww, let the code debates begin!

That right there is why I have ZERO interest in getting embroiled in such debates.

If at least four experienced people have to argue about whether or not something is "required" by code (and why, or why not)... Well, that alone SHOULD tell you something in and of itself. Beyond that, if you have to try that hard to come up with an excuse to NOT provide appropriate overcurrent protection for the feeder, then it's obvious that you've completely lost sight of the forest for the trees.

Even the way "JoeFin" phrased his original taunt ("...point out exactly which article in the NEC requires...") belies a completely asinine and wrong-headed approach to the entire issue. For about the 6,942nd time... Just because something might "meet code" doesn't mean that's the right way (or even close to the best way) to do that particular thing; "code" is merely the legally enforceable minimum standard.

More to the point: Even if the excuse can be theoretically made (which, given the above-noted debate, is far from a foregone conclusion), it's silly and short-sighted to even attempt to do so, since common sense tells us that the protection IS highly desirable, regardless.

I'll wager that the electrical installation which (as was later determined) led to THIS:

"met code" when it was installed.

 

[2ManyProjects]

ok guys so will what I am doing work????

With the provisos I noted in my earlier replies to you (particularly http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showpost.php?p=3442875&postcount=21 and http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showpost.php?p=3442875&postcount=26), probably. But those "provisos" ARE important; so don't ignore them.

can I come out my meter/breaker box with #2 to my shop and finish wiring????

Based on your phrasing, it is still not clear whether you intend to connect the feeder to your main distribution panel, or directly to the meter pan. The distinction can be (and probably is) important, and you SHOULD at least clarify this (pics might help) before proceeding.

Either way, and as noted earlier, AWG 2 AL will be marginal; but you MAY find it acceptable (I probably wouldn't). By comparison, AWG 2 copper will be more than adequate; but it won't be cheap.

do I have to have a main in the panel box in the shop since there is a main in the box I am coming out of??

Yes.

Any sub-panel in a detached structure with more than six branch-circuit breakers MUST also have a local disconnect. This is the impetus for the "back-fed main breaker" approach which is so often recommended here. In your particular case, given the panel you've chosen, there is a special breaker made for just this purpose:

http://www.homedepot.com/p/Square-D...-less-Rated-Load-Centers-QOM100VHCP/100132766

It has lugs designed to accept up to AWG 2/0 wire from the incoming feeder. And note, even if (per your "breaker count" comments below) you don't think you'll have more than six breaker handles in the box right away, you surely WILL cross that threshold sooner or later (I'm betting "sooner"). So best to prepare for that now.

here is a list of the feeds
outlets on right side of the wall 1 feed of wire / single pole
outlets on left side of the wall 1 feed / single pole

From a "breaker count" point of view, this is probably OK. But I would suggest that you run both circuits to ALL of your 120V outlet locations, then use double-gang boxes at each of those locations, with one duplex in each box fed from each circuit. The first outlet in each of these "chains" must be a GFCI type. If you have (or will acquire in the foreseeable future) any semi-serious "stationary" power tools (such as a bench grinder, drill press, etc.), you may want to provide additional dedicated (or at least semi-dedicated) circuits for these.

air comp. just 1 feed / dbl pole
welder just 1 feed / dbl pole

Don't you have two welders? Granted, you're not likely to run them both at the same time; but depending on (among other things) your shop layout, you may want to provide separate dedicated feeds to each one.

a/c just 1 feed / dbl pole

What about heat?

so I have 2 single pole and 3 dbl pole circuits I need to feed..

You seem to have overlooked your main lighting in this list. That will require at least one more 120V branch circuit; and a good argument can be made to split it up into two separate circuits.

also 1 feed for night light that's a single pole or I can just install that between the outlet circuit and not need another feed..

The "night light" (dare I presume you mean some sort of decorative exterior lighting?) can very probably be tacked onto one of your main lighting circuits. But I would probably NOT run it off your outlet circuit(s); and if you do, it will require at least AWG 12 wiring.

 

[pattenp]

Don't throw me into your list. I'm not arguing about it. I'm just not clear as to what the OP is doing.

That right there is why I have ZERO interest in getting embroiled in such debates.

If at least four experienced people have to argue about whether or not something is "required" by code (and why, or why not)... Well, that alone SHOULD tell you something in and of itself. Beyond that, if you have to try that hard to come up with an excuse to NOT provide appropriate overcurrent protection for the feeder, then it's obvious that you've completely lost sight of the forest for the trees.

 

[earthmover]

With the provisos I noted in my earlier replies to you (particularly http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showpost.php?p=3442875&postcount=21 and http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showpost.php?p=3442875&postcount=26), probably. But those "provisos" ARE important; so don't ignore them.



Based on your phrasing, it is still not clear whether you intend to connect the feeder to your main distribution panel, or directly to the meter pan. The distinction can be (and probably is) important, and you SHOULD at least clarify this (pics might help) before proceeding.

I would like to install a dbl pole breaker to run my main feeder off to the shop ..as the only use the panel has is for my well and storage and the storage will be gone as soon as I hook up my shop...I posted a pic on the first page of my meter can with the breakers at the bottom of it...my house comes right of the meter and not through the breaker panel at the bottom....

Either way, and as noted earlier, AWG 2 AL will be marginal; but you MAY find it acceptable (I probably wouldn't). By comparison, AWG 2 copper will be more than adequate; but it won't be cheap

went back and looked at lowes and they also have 4aw wire but how could I hook it to a breaker..this is direct burial .....is there a difference in #2 and 2awg wire ?????



Yes.

Any sub-panel in a detached structure with more than six branch-circuit breakers MUST also have a local disconnect. This is the impetus for the "back-fed main breaker" approach which is so often recommended here. In your particular case, given the panel you've chosen, there is a special breaker made for just this purpose:


not a problem I can carry the box back and get 1 with the main breaker in it..

http://www.homedepot.com/p/Square-D...-less-Rated-Load-Centers-QOM100VHCP/100132766

It has lugs designed to accept up to AWG 2/0 wire from the incoming feeder. And note, even if (per your "breaker count" comments below) you don't think you'll have more than six breaker handles in the box right away, you surely WILL cross that threshold sooner or later (I'm betting "sooner"). So best to prepare for that now.



From a "breaker count" point of view, this is probably OK. But I would suggest that you run both circuits to ALL of your 120V outlet locations, then use double-gang boxes at each of those locations, with one duplex in each box fed from each circuit. The first outlet in each of these "chains" must be a GFCI type. If you have (or will acquire in the foreseeable future) any semi-serious "stationary" power tools (such as a bench grinder, drill press, etc.), you may want to provide additional dedicated (or at least semi-dedicated) circuits for these.

not sure what you mean here...



Don't you have two welders? Granted, you're not likely to run them both at the same time; but depending on (among other things) your shop layout, you may want to provide separate dedicated feeds to each one.

yes I have 2 welder the plug is at the door so I can weld on my dump truck if I have to .. they both have about 20' of cable for this and the same plug ends ....


What about heat?

you are right I forgot about that circuit 220



You seem to have overlooked your main lighting in this list. That will require at least one more 120V branch circuit; and a good argument can be made to split it up into two separate circuits.

on my main lighting I have 2 circuits 1 for the left side and 1 for the right side each will have its on breaker



The "night light" (dare I presume you mean some sort of decorative exterior lighting?) can very probably be tacked onto one of your main lighting circuits. But I would probably NOT run it off your outlet circuit(s); and if you do, it will require at least AWG 12 wiring.

not a big problem I can run its own circuit I had thought about it anyway so I can have a switch to control it and not let it just come on and off by design..dust til dawn light...

thanks for all the help and info guys please keep it coming as I need to get this thing done ..working off drop cords now is just not my thing...

 

[2ManyProjects]

Based on your phrasing, it is still not clear whether you intend to connect the feeder to your main distribution panel, or directly to the meter pan. The distinction can be (and probably is) important, and you SHOULD at least clarify this (pics might help) before proceeding.

I would like to install a dbl pole breaker to run my main feeder off to the shop ..as the only use the panel has is for my well and storage and the storage will be gone as soon as I hook up my shop...I posted a pic on the first page of my meter can with the breakers at the bottom of it...

"Sorry.

This person moved or 
deleted this image."

But nonetheless, from your description, this sounds generally do-able.

Either way, and as noted earlier, AWG 2 AL will be marginal; but you MAY find it acceptable (I probably wouldn't). By comparison, AWG 2 copper will be more than adequate; but it won't be cheap

went back and looked at lowes and they also have 4aw wire but how could I hook it to a breaker..

I don't know what you mean by "4aw wire". If you mean "4 AWG", then connecting it to that QOM1 breaker (in the new panel) I cited earlier will be no problem, because (as also mentioned) it can handle up to 2/0 AWG. Obviously, you should also ensure that whatever breaker you install at the meter panel will also properly accommodate the size feeder wire you'll need to use.

this is direct burial .....

Then you probably want either Type UF-B (if you can get it in the needed gauge, which may be "iffy"), or Type USE-2.

is there a difference in #2 and 2awg wire ?????

Probably just different semantics; in casual discussion, many folks simply assume the "AWG" part. HOWEVER... There most definitely IS a difference between "AWG 2" and "AWG 2/0", if that's what you mean.

Any sub-panel in a detached structure with more than six branch-circuit breakers MUST also have a local disconnect. This is the impetus for the "back-fed main breaker" approach which is so often recommended here. In your particular case, given the panel you've chosen, there is a special breaker made for just this purpose:

not a problem I can carry the box back and get 1 with the main breaker in it..

There is probably no need for that. That same previously-cited breaker will suffice nicely for the local "Main"/disconnect (that's its purpose in life, in fact). So that panel will do just fine, provided that it has enough breaker slots to meet your current and future needs. Now, as previously discussed, it MIGHT be a little tight on that latter front, depending on just what the future holds. So if you want to trade it for "the next model up" in the same series (presuming there is one), fine; but it's not like the panel you already bought won't work.

From a "breaker count" point of view, this is probably OK. But I would suggest that you run both circuits to ALL of your 120V outlet locations, then use double-gang boxes at each of those locations, with one duplex in each box fed from each circuit. The first outlet in each of these "chains" must be a GFCI type. If you have (or will acquire in the foreseeable future) any semi-serious "stationary" power tools (such as a bench grinder, drill press, etc.), you may want to provide additional dedicated (or at least semi-dedicated) circuits for these.

not sure what you mean here...

What, specifically, do I need to clarify? You were listing (i.e., counting up) the various branch circuits (hence breaker slots) you'll need in the new sub-panel. I first suggested an alternate wiring scheme for the various general-purpose 120V outlets scattered around the shop, and then pointed out that two circuits MIGHT not be enough (or at least short of ideal) for these, if you have any particularly power-hungry 120V tools.

Don't you have two welders? Granted, you're not likely to run them both at the same time; but depending on (among other things) your shop layout, you may want to provide separate dedicated feeds to each one.

yes I have 2 welder the plug is at the door so I can weld on my dump truck if I have to .. they both have about 20' of cable for this and the same plug ends ....

OK, given that fuller explanation, I'm now pretty much convinced that one circuit will suffice for the welders. You'll just need to plug & unplug them with each use.

What about heat?

you are right I forgot about that circuit 220

So that's two more branch breaker slots. (Just keeping track...)

You seem to have overlooked your main lighting in this list. That will require at least one more 120V branch circuit; and a good argument can be made to split it up into two separate circuits.

on my main lighting I have 2 circuits 1 for the left side and 1 for the right side each will have its on breaker

OK, that is possibly not the ideal pattern from a usability/flexibility standpoint; but if it's already installed/wired that way, there is probably no pressing need to change it at this point. The larger problem, in the long run, will be those "Unobtainium" 8-foot T12 tubes. In any event, that's another two more breaker slots vs. your original list.

The "night light" (dare I presume you mean some sort of decorative exterior lighting?) can very probably be tacked onto one of your main lighting circuits. But I would probably NOT run it off your outlet circuit(s); and if you do, it will require at least AWG 12 wiring.

not a big problem I can run its own circuit I had thought about it anyway so I can have a switch to control it and not let it just come on and off by design..dust til dawn light...

Wait a minute...

Load assignments (vis-a-vis the circuit breakers) and switching are two entirely different things. A lamp or light fixture does NOT need to be on its own circuit in order to be separately switched.

thanks for all the help and info guys please keep it coming as I need to get this thing done ..working off drop cords now is just not my thing...

Understood. But OTOH, you don't want to be in SO much of a rush to get it done that you short-change yourself on the planning.