Sub-Panel Feeder (YES AGAIN)

[NWOhioChevyGuy]

Finally pulling together my attached garage budget.

One thing I need some assistance on is the feeder size for the sub-panel.

Current house panel is 200amp.
We have removed the Electric Dryer & Electric Stove from this service - so plenty of space in main panel.
Run is 75' all in open basement (Never to be finished off)
Plan is to install a Homeline 125amp panel from Lowes.

Circuits for garage;
3 - 15amp Lighting
3 - 20amp Outlet
1 - 20amp Garage Openers
1 - 20amp Gas Propane heater

Future;
1 - 30amp? Mini-split (for bonus room 40'x14' in trusses)
1 - 15amp Lighting (Mudroom / bath)
1 - 20amp Outlet (Mudroom / bath)
2 - 20amp Outlet (Bonus Room)
1 - 15amp Lighting (Bonus Room)


Looking for help sizing the wire for the feeder run, have an electrician who I can lean on if I get stuck, but plan on doing the work myself.

Hopefully spring 2020 build

 

[NWOhioChevyGuy]

Just noticed I put this in the wrong board.

Please move to Electrical when found.

Sorry

 

[Bert_]

You could run that stuff and a lot more off a 60a feeder. #4 ser would be my choice of wire.

You could go to #2 ser and 90 amp breaker but it's gross overkill unless you plan on running a machine shop.

 

[Sokoloff]

Agree that the stated load is 60A. I would give serious thought as to whether you EVER might get an electric car (or if you will sell at a time when electric cars are more prevalent), in which case I’d put in a 100A feeder.

The difference in cost will not be earth-moving and if you do get an electric, you’ll be in a spot to run a simple conduit to the charger and be happy.

 

[NWOhioChevyGuy]

I drive a diesel 3/4 ton Chevy truck and a V8 Camaro = no electric car in my future EVER

But leaning towards the 100amp service as Kitchen upgrade in future would be a shorter pull from the Sub than the main panel for circuits.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

i agree with others. 60a should be plenty

 

[pattenp]

I think with what you have listed plus with you kinda being open ended on what you may add later I would run 2-2-2-4 Al SER to have capability for at least 90A. I don't think even running 1-1-1-3 SER for 100A is a bad idea.

 

[Terry D]

I personally would go 90 or 100 amps. It doesn't cost that much more. You still will use the same sub panel any same breakers for your branch circuits, the only additional cost would be the breaker feeding your sub and the feeder wire. Your always are going to want to add something in the future.

Sent from my SM-G960U using The Garage Journal mobile app

 

[mike93lx]

I'd run #2 SER if it was my house. The run isn't that long, so the upgrade cost won't be massive. With that said, 60A would be fine as well.

Make sure you breaker it at 90 in the main. You can't use a 100 for a subpanel with #2AL.

 

[NWOhioChevyGuy]

Yup 90Amp Breaker at Main, 2-2-2-4 AL SER is now the plan

Easily found and not too expensive

Thanks Gentlemen

Looking forward to a build thread done by ME in the spring

 

[mike93lx]

Yup 90Amp Breaker at Main, 2-2-2-4 AL SER is now the plan

Easily found and not too expensive

Thanks Gentlemen

Looking forward to a build thread done by ME in the spring

Check the wire manufacturer's guidelines to see if they require anti oxidant paste. Not a big deal, just want to make sure you have it on hand for the installation.

Also, use the biggest subpanel you can fit. The price difference will be nothing compared to the inconvenience of running out of space down the road

 

[Bert_]

I drive a diesel 3/4 ton Chevy truck and a V8 Camaro = no electric car in my future EVER

But leaning towards the 100amp service as Kitchen upgrade in future would be a shorter pull from the Sub than the main panel for circuits.

Not saying you shouldn't do a 90 or 100a feed, but just so you know all that stuff would easily run off a 60.

 

[NWOhioChevyGuy]

Check the wire manufacturer's guidelines to see if they require anti oxidant paste. Not a big deal, just want to make sure you have it on hand for the installation.

Also, use the biggest subpanel you can fit. The price difference will be nothing compared to the inconvenience of running out of space down the road

Have the paste on hand already from a previous project

 

[dcg9381]

I like keeping my panels the same - mainly so breakers are compatible, but that's just me.
Agree with others, 60A. 90A is future proof.

Circuits for garage;
3 - 15amp Lighting
3 - 20amp Outlet
1 - 20amp Garage Openers
1 - 20amp Gas Propane heater

Future;
1 - 30amp? Mini-split (for bonus room 40'x14' in trusses)
1 - 15amp Lighting (Mudroom / bath)
1 - 20amp Outlet (Mudroom / bath)
2 - 20amp Outlet (Bonus Room)
1 - 15amp Lighting (Bonus Room)

Comments:
1) Mini-split won't pull near that much power for your sqft, even if you do a 120V one. My 2-ton pulls under 15A @ 240V, somewhere sub 12A, heating/cooling. It's spec'd for a 20A 2-pole breaker. You'll need a smaller unit than mine.

2) I do not do 15A circuits. Ever. I get that the wire costs more, outlets cost a little more, but you won't save much having to buy 2 runs of wire.

3) Wet rooms need GFCI - I do it it the breaker. Other rooms may need arc fault. Unfortunately, both are not inexpensive.

4) I'd probably throw a 30A "EV" outlet into that garage that could be used for an RV or welder, even if you don't have one. Really should be 50A, but then I'd want to see 90A feed. I get that you won't buy an EV (I'm a Corvette owner) - but some EV sedans will walk my Corvette.. Resale if nothing else.

5) If you use conduit into the garage, the circuit becomes "up gradable" in the future.

6) Watch torque specs if you use AL wire, may need anti-ox paste. Check them some time after use.

 

[mike93lx]

5) If you use conduit into the garage, the circuit becomes "up gradable" in the future.

The feed will be exposed, so it is upgradable with SER anyway

And it is attached, so he could always just hone-run another line for the additional circuit

 

[NWOhioChevyGuy]

All well stated points.

In the future I will be putting in a "Shop" a distance from the house. (Future = before retirement) So this will be designed to truely be a garage.

Yes some small fabrication will take place, however anything over my 120V welder gets done by my uncle at his shop/farm.

It is an attached garage, however front 12' will be a mudroom / bathroom / pantry area when completed. So a small crawl will be in that area, hopefully I won't have to ever get into it in the future. Trying to do things right the first time as to not have to upgrade anything down the road.

Also this is the first home I have owned that I do not think of resale when doing a project. I am doing it for ME, as moving is nowhere in my future.

6.9 acres plenty of room to do what I please

 

[mike93lx]

All well stated points.

In the future I will be putting in a "Shop" a distance from the house. (Future = before retirement) So this will be designed to truely be a garage.

Yes some small fabrication will take place, however anything over my 120V welder gets done by my uncle at his shop/farm.

It is an attached garage, however front 12' will be a mudroom / bathroom / pantry area when completed. So a small crawl will be in that area, hopefully I won't have to ever get into it in the future. Trying to do things right the first time as to not have to upgrade anything down the road.

Also this is the first home I have owned that I do not think of resale when doing a project. I am doing it for ME, as moving is nowhere in my future.

6.9 acres plenty of room to do what I please

Must be nice.