Sub-panel ground bar
- Thread starter midas
- Start date
Most ground bar kits are listed for two conductors, as long as they are the same size and material, for example two 12 AWG copper should be OK, a 14 AWG copper & a 10 AWG aluminum would not, nor would I mix solid & stranded conductors. Another option is buy another ground bar kit & mount it above the existing GB.
FordsnFishin
Well-known member
Should you? No. Do people? Yes.
I suggest to just go to your hardware store and pick up another extra ground bar for your panel. Be a measly 5 bucks.
I suggest to just go to your hardware store and pick up another extra ground bar for your panel. Be a measly 5 bucks.
FordsnFishin
Well-known member
Just that simple.
FordsnFishin
Well-known member
Usually pre fabbed holes for you in the panel already. An the ground bar should come with self tapping screws.
Mustang51js
Well-known member
That panel has multiple locations to add a ground bar, but by looking at your set up I would just double up on the grounds. Nothing wrong with it and don't know why someone would say you shouldn't, it's just a ground
rlitman
Well-known member
Not quite.
First, the paint needs to be removed from a contact point between the box and the ground bar (around where it is being screwed in).
Second, a self tapping screw sent through the ground bar into the metal box is not an acceptable ground current path.
The factory ground bar has a green screw that goes into a hole approved for this purpose.
I'd screw it to the box with a pair of self tapping screws, but then bridge between the two bars with a piece of #4 copper solid.
rlitman
Well-known member
My panel was pretty old (1980's), and had a single ground lug. All the grounds were twisted together and clamped into this lug. Working on that box SUCKED.
Adding a new ground bar makes the most sense to me in a box with that much free space. Why make things tighter?
sberry
Banned
The screw holes should be threaded but it wouldn't hurt to run a wire.
Aceman
Well-known member
Overlooking the fact that it's a Cutler Hammer GBK14 ground bar in a Sq D panel, it is rated for three #14-#10 wires per hole.
https://www.platt.com/CutSheets/Eaton/Loadcenters-BR-Accessories.pdf
https://www.platt.com/CutSheets/Eaton/Loadcenters-BR-Accessories.pdf
ishiboo
Well-known member
Um, don't the screws handle that? I've never seen a Square D ground bar with paint removed, and the factory installed ground bars have all their paint under them.
The factory neutral bars have a green screw to combine the two in a main panel.
Edit: The Square D instructions for the bus bar kits have nothing in them about removing paint
Last edited:
sands35
Well-known member
For what it is worth, in the last 2 houses I've sold, the inspectors all required that I have only 1 wire per lug location on ground, neutral and on breakers. Even though I was able to clearly show UL code allows multiple taps.
zmaxmotorsports
Well-known member
I cant get the picture to blow up on my computer but if that's a homeline panel like I think it is,you can just go to menards/lowes/homeless depot...... and buy a ground buss already made to mount in that box.
The new buss will come with the srews to mount it to the factory made holes in the box.
No need to scrape paint or run a bond/jumper between the ground bars.
zmaxmotorsports
Well-known member
On the square D breakers theyre made to be double tapped,if a home inspector says they aren't tell him to pound sand.
Charles (in GA)
Well-known member
Look at the screw torque chart in the door of the panel. It will give you the torque for the neutral wire under each screw, and then for grounds it will say something like (1 or 2) #14 to #10, ** in/lbs, which is clearly telling you that you may place two ground wires under one screw, they give you the torque for doing so. Both of my panels, Siemens in the shop, and Square D in the house, do this.
Charles
thewatusi
Well-known member
Most home inspectors are idiots. I would have told them to double tap up their ***.
toplessHO
Well-known member
it may be acceptable to double up in the lug as far as the manufacturer but is not an accepted practice in the field.Its cheap enough and easy enough to add another ground bar. The green screw used on the neutral bus is only for point of incoming service. Every place after that the neutral and grounds are separated.
I was at homeless depot and forgot to pick it up...I got a bit side tracked. Although, the homeline box does say two #14 or #12 per lug. I hate starting another thread, I have a simple question (maybe for some) on a run for a powder room. any chance I could do this with one wire? Maybe 12/3?
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Mustang51js
Well-known member
Not sure what you are trying to do in that pic. Are you just wanting to run two switches for the fan,light. Then you can run,12-3 for the two switches,if your trying to feed a wire through and still have two switches a 12-3 won't be enough
Cmreschke
Well-known member
If I understand correctly, you want to pull two home runs in 1 cable to a powder room, 1 for lighting and 1 for receptacles, yes?
If so yes you can but avoid the stacked switch and go with a two gang box if possible, you will need this for box fill. Cable to switch box is 3 wire, run your switch legs and run a jumper from the 2 gang to your gfi.
Take the red from the 3 wire and splice it to the black going to your gfi. All of your whites go together and your black from 3 wire feeds the switches.
Take a wire from the gfi and go to the other plug you have in your picture, this wire will go to your load side of your gfi. The wire coming from the home run is your line side. DO not connect your neutrals together here, they each go to their respective screw terminals.
In your panel you have to put them next to each other and either put it on a 2 pole 20 amp breaker, or 2 single pole breakers with a handle tie, so you can shut both circuits off at the same time with one movement of the hand.
Hope this helps.
FYI for original question, I would just stack the grounds but if you want to get a new bar then get one that matches the manufacturer of your panel, it will fit into a prep unchecked set of holes in your panel and comes with screws that will self thread into the panel back, no paint scraping or jumper from bar to bar required. This bar is only for grounds though.
If so yes you can but avoid the stacked switch and go with a two gang box if possible, you will need this for box fill. Cable to switch box is 3 wire, run your switch legs and run a jumper from the 2 gang to your gfi.
Take the red from the 3 wire and splice it to the black going to your gfi. All of your whites go together and your black from 3 wire feeds the switches.
Take a wire from the gfi and go to the other plug you have in your picture, this wire will go to your load side of your gfi. The wire coming from the home run is your line side. DO not connect your neutrals together here, they each go to their respective screw terminals.
In your panel you have to put them next to each other and either put it on a 2 pole 20 amp breaker, or 2 single pole breakers with a handle tie, so you can shut both circuits off at the same time with one movement of the hand.
Hope this helps.
FYI for original question, I would just stack the grounds but if you want to get a new bar then get one that matches the manufacturer of your panel, it will fit into a prep unchecked set of holes in your panel and comes with screws that will self thread into the panel back, no paint scraping or jumper from bar to bar required. This bar is only for grounds though.
Mustang51js
Well-known member
Do you want the outlet switched with the light if not then you need a separate 12-2 to the outlet, or a 12-4 which would be a waste to buy that just for this project
ishiboo
Well-known member
Your limited scope of experience with one or two clueless inspectors is not representative of the entire US. Making up a rule is definitely not something that happens everywhere, and most inspectors with a clue are able to read the box info.
I definitely wouldn't double up unless it's necessary, but it's perfectly fine if the panel allows it.
rbjenterprises
Active member
- Joined
- Apr 7, 2009
- Messages
- 28
Do not tie the ground bars together on a sub panel. Code requires that ground and neutral be kept separate after the main panel. If the sub panel is used as a main panel you use a single ground and neutral bar or separate ones with a jumper. If you use a panel as a sub panel then the ground and neutral are separate by purchasing an additional ground bar or removing a jumper between the ground and neutral bar. The ground bar will have a green bonding screw to connect it electrically to the metal box. The neutral will be insulated from the metal box.
Cmreschke
Well-known member
How so?
Mustang51js
Well-known member
You would need a 12-2 from your power source which could be first outlet to the other outlet if you want it to have constant power. A 12-3 from the first outlet would be for the two switched devices sharing the same nuetral. Your better off running a separate 12-2 from box to each device you want to power up, and no reason to run a separate circuit for each thing, one circuit would be plenty
Cmreschke
Well-known member
I'm under impression he wants to run a 12\3 as a homerun. The way I told him to wire it all would have him with a ckt for his lights and a ckt for his plugs. No switched plugs, both plugs gfi protected, just what I think he wanted. Yes a single ckt will hold all but maybe they have a big hair dryer or something, we are all just taking a guess at what he wants though.
Cmreschke
Well-known member
Correct there norcal.
dave67fd
Well-known member
Clearing the paint and bonding the two may not be a requirement but just good cheap practice/insurance. The ground bars should have a good mechanical ground as well as a good electrical bonding jumper in the event "one" becomes loose (mechanically or electrically). General practice on low/high voltage "control" panels.