Sub panel in detached garage.

[Douglas]

I have this question in another forum also but not getting many reply's. So I just finished wiring up a sub panel in my detached garage. I live in a manufactured home so there is a 200 amp service panel out front. It feeds my house, my detached pump house, and now my detached garage. I did all the wiring myself almost 30 years ago and everything was passed off by the electrical inspector. So I just completed the new sub panel in my garage and all the circuits and it was also passed off. While wiring my garage sub panel I decided to remove the front cover on the sub panel in my pump house just as a refresher. It made me notice something that might not be right even though it passed inspection almost 30 years ago.

Looking at my photo, shouldn't the bar that connects the ground bus bar to the neutral bus bar be removed? I thought the neutral bus bar had to be free floating in a sub panel in a detached structure? And the ground bus bar had to be bonded to the metal sub panel? At least that's the way I did my garage sub panel. In my photo the ground bus bar is bonded to the sub panel but with the bar that connects the two bus bars.....so is the neutral.

I should remove that bar correct? Was this okay 30 years ago and that's why it passed?

 

[wyliesdiesels]

Check out post #3 on the electrical FAQs thread for answers to your questions.

In short, prior to the 2008 code cycle, a detached structure could have a three wire feeder with bonded neutral as long as there were no other parallel metallic pathways such as metal conduit, metal waterline, phone line etc. Since this is a pump house, you could have another metallic pathway such as a metal waterline.

Since you only have a 3-wire feeder, the bond needs to remain. However, if there are other metallic pathways then the feeder needs to be changed and neutral bond removed. A ground bar would need to be added as well

 

[Douglas]

Since you only have a 3-wire feeder, the bond needs to remain. However, if there are other metallic pathways then the feeder needs to be changed and neutral bond removed. A ground bar would need to be added as well

Its all schedule 40 water lines coming from the pump house. I'm gonna keep it exactly like it is since I have the paperwork showing it passed almost 30 years ago. Thanks for your reply.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

what brand of panel is that?

Looks like the buss bar is corroded in the upper left side.

I would inspect the panel closer and make sure you dont have more corrosion or excessive moisture getting into the panel

 

[Norcal]

what brand of panel is that?

Looks like the buss bar is corroded in the upper left side.

I would inspect the panel closer and make sure you dont have more corrosion or excessive moisture getting into the panel

Panel is a ITE or Siemens.

 

[Terry D]

Am I seeing something wrong, is that panel being back fed by a 2-pole 30. It looks like a # 10-3 is feeding it. So in that case, the strap, at the bottom, connecting the 2 neutral busses needs to be removed, and the bonding strap needs to remain. Or the bonding strap needs to be removed and a ground bar installed and all grounds relocated to the new ground bar. Why are there no main lugs in this panel. I have seen main breaker panels like this, where the main is back feed, but the main is usually on the left side and usually the buss bar across from this will not accept a breaker correctly. Plus it should have a hold down device. I understand that it passed 30 years ago, but you are paralleling the neutral and the EGC feeding that panel. Please tell me if Im looking at this wrong

 

[wyliesdiesels]

Am I seeing something wrong, is that panel being back fed by a 2-pole 30. It looks like a # 10-3 is feeding it. So in that case, the strap, at the bottom, connecting the 2 neutral busses needs to be removed, and the bonding strap needs to remain. Or the bonding strap needs to be removed and a ground bar installed and all grounds relocated to the new ground bar. Why are there no main lugs in this panel. I have seen main breaker panels like this, where the main is back feed, but the main is usually on the left side and usually the buss bar across from this will not accept a breaker correctly. Plus it should have a hold down device. I understand that it passed 30 years ago, but you are paralleling the neutral and the EGC feeding that panel. Please tell me if Im looking at this wrong

To me it looks like a 3-wire feed meaning no ground wire in the feeder wire. This could be old NM without a ground wire. I do not see a ground wire on the right for the feeder.

Since its 3-wire, the neutral bus needs to be bonded as long as there are no parallel metallic pathways.

Also, hold down kits were not available 30yrs ago.

 

[Innovate1]

That is the question - does the incoming feed have a bare ground wire? I don't see it but it could be nidden by other wires in the photo. If it has a ground wire in addition to 3 insulated conductors then the jumper could be removed.

 

[Norcal]

The Siemens breaker hold down is hard to see unless you are looking at it from the right angle.

 

[Terry D]

To me it looks like a 3-wire feed meaning no ground wire in the feeder wire. This could be old NM without a ground wire. I do not see a ground wire on the right for the feeder.

Since its 3-wire, the neutral bus needs to be bonded as long as there are no parallel metallic pathways.

Also, hold down kits were not available 30yrs ago.

You are correct, when I look at the picture again, I was mistaking the ground for the 12-3 for the ground of the 10-3. The 10-3 clearly has no ground. Thanks