Subpanel Suggestions

[D45]

This winter, I am going to re-wire my garage and install a new subpanel

I am currently using a Square D "QU" 100 amp max panel, with a total of 6 max circuits.........and I am only currently wired up for, and using, 4 circuits

I figure my shop is only 1,000 sq feet........about 16'-18' wide and 65' long

I think a nice 20 circuit 100 amp panel should be more than enough

Here's then current panel

Square D

What panels are GOOD and what panels are junk?

The prices vary greatly and I want to do it right when replacing the current subpanel


Eaton, Square D, GE Power Mark, or Siemens 100amp panel good

What is the diff between the Square D QO and the Square D Homelite?

Prices vary greatly, depending on how many circuits of course, from $60 to $200

 

[slow]

I prefer Square D QO for the Visi-Trip feature.

Ryan

 

[theoldwizard1]

Does that panel handle tandem breakers ? If so, that will give you 2 more slots. Quick and easy.

 

[D45]

Does that panel handle tandem breakers ? If so, that will give you 2 more slots. Quick and easy.

I don't think so

 

[D45]

Lowe's has 30% some panels right now.........

Square D 20-Circuit 20-Space 100-Amp Main Breaker Load Center
$63.70

http://www.lowes.com/pd_71846-296-Q...ntURL=?Ntt=electrical+panel&page=1&facetInfo=


Square D 24-Circuit 24-Space 100-Amp Main Breaker Load Center
$55.28

http://www.lowes.com/pd_286858-296-...tURL=?Ntt=electrical+panel+100-amp&facetInfo=


What the diff between the QO series and the Homelite?

 

[theoldwizard1]

What the diff between the QO series and the Homelite?

QO is considered "commercial" grade, but it is widely used in residential applications.

Others will have to give you more specifics.

 

[D45]

Thanks for that info

Lights can all be on one circuit, right?

Outlets cane be spread out over a few circuits......

What about the two garage door openers, can they be tied into the circuits for lights or should the two openers be on their own circuit?

 

[pattenp]

Thanks for that info

Lights can all be on one circuit, right? Yes. Should be on own circuit(s).

Outlets cane be spread out over a few circuits...... Yes. But not combined on light circuit.

What about the two garage door openers, can they be tied into the circuits for lights or should the two openers be on their own circuit? Best on own circuit.

*****************

 

[bmxdad]

Whatever you get, make sure its bigger then you need. Not for the breaker space, but for the wire space. If you start filling the panel up, it gets crowded real fast and makes install an issue if you like things neat and aligned.

 

[D45]

So the two (front and back) garage door openers can be on one circuit or do they have to be on their own?

 

[D45]

My current panel has a total of 6 max circuits.........and I am only currently wired up for, and using, 4 circuits

I was thinking, and hoping, that a 20-24 circuit panel would be more than enough

I don't see the need for going with anything 30 and over circuits

 

[brewchief]

The panel you have will accept all tandem breakers, it's a 6 space 12 circuit panel.

Any 240v circuits will eat up two spaces each so if you have the need for very many 240v circuits don't be shy about buying a panel with a bunch of room.

QO panel would let you reuse the breakers you have, not a big deal IMHO with only 4 breakers to move over.

Some here will suggest using the same brand and style that you have in the house if it's something decent, if you have a breaker fail you can swap between panels to get important loads up and running, I haven't seen enough breaker failures to make it sway me too much in that direction but if it was a draw between two brands it might be the deciding factor.

In a garage that will see temperature swings on a regular basis many will prefer a panel with a copper bus as it will resist corrosion better from moisture due to condensation.

 

[D45]

Thanks for that info

It appears that the current bus is aluminum, and appears to be pretty corrosion free for being in an area that is not temp/humidity controlled

 

[railfancwb]

I agree that too much space and circuits quickly become not enough. Half width breakers are a plus on circuits but a minus on wire space.

Plan enough circuits to allow several 220s. Welder, HVAC, large compressor... Don't have all lights on the same circuit. You will still want lights when that breaker pops at night. Put 20a breakers, wire, and outlets rather than 15a, and keep them separate from lights. Put a few 20a 220v outlets in. Large machine motors will thank you.

 

[Norcal]

The bigger the better IMO, I don't care for Homoline panels, but since the existing panel is a QO, might as well stay with QO & reuse it as a subpanel somewhere else in the shop considering how long it is, rather then have long homeruns. A 30,40,42 circuit panel leaves lots of options.

 

[hh76]

Just my quick thoughts on which brands are best.

Any of the major manufacturers are going to be more than adequate for what 99% of us do. They are all UL listed, which means they have been tested, and can take whatever is thrown at them as long as installed properly.

If you ask an electrician, most will have their own opinion about which is good, and which is " junk", but it usually just what they are used to working with.

I'd use qo, that way you don't have to re buy the couple breakers you already have.

 

[Stuff]

Are you replacing this panel or adding one off of it?

Also a couple of things look strange - It looks like you have 14 gauge wire on 20 amp circuits. The green bonding screw should not be on the neutral bus as this is not a service disconnect.

 

[D45]

Yes I would be replacing this current subpanel with a new panel

There are alot of wiring issues, both inside the current panel and outside the panel

 

[D45]

So as long as I get a Square D panel I can reuse these 4 breakers?

 

[brewchief]

You can reuse them as long as you get a square d qo panel, they will not work in a homeline panel.

 

[D45]

Looks like a Sqaure D QO panel it is then........it will save me a few bucks, but not much!

Square D QO Single Pole 15 AMP; $6.74
Square D QO Single Pole 20 AMP; $6.74
Square D QO Single Pole 25 AMP; $6.96
Square D QO Single Pole 30 AMP; $6.74

Just need to decide how many circuit panel to get in the QO line

Square D 32-Circuit 32-Space
100-Amp Main Breaker Load Center (Value Pack)
$102.41

http://www.lowes.com/pd_286866-296-...rentURL=?Ntt=square+d+load+centers&facetInfo=

Square D 20-Circuit 20-Space
100-Amp Main Breaker Load Center
$63.70 (on sale)............was $91.00

http://www.lowes.com/pd_71846-296-Q...rentURL=?Ntt=square+d+load+centers&facetInfo=

Square D 24-Circuit 24-Space
100-Amp Main Breaker Load Center
$85.02

http://www.lowes.com/pd_622878-296-...=?Ntt=square+d+load+centers&page=3&facetInfo=
http://www.lowes.com/pd_622872-296-...=?Ntt=square+d+load+centers&page=3&facetInfo=


So my choices in the Square D QO line of panels are:
20 circuits
24 circuits
32 circuits

 

[D45]

Like I said, I am currently running my shop on only 4 circuits.....so anything will be an improvement once I get a new panel and rewire EVERYTHING!!!

I know I will need
-1 circuit for the NG shop heater
-1 circuit for the compressor
-2 circuits for the shop lights (10-12 4' T8 fixtures)
-2 circuits for the front/back garage door openers
-2 to 4 circuits for outlets throughout the shop
-1 circuit for my overhead hoist
-1 circuit for the welder

10-12 circuits right now would be needed once the shop is done........

Anything else I am missing?

 

[slow]

remember any 240 volt load requires 2 spaces in the panel.

 

[D45]

Thanks!

So 11-13 circuits now........

 

[xyster101]

I have a Square D QO in the house and am about to put the square D home lite in my shop. 24 circuit for $55 @lowes. Not with the double the price on the breakers to see a red thing if they trip. GFCI, 30AMP and doubles cost enough as it is and i will save about half that with the home lite panel.

 

[newbinga]

The panel is a relatively small cost in a wiring project. I would just get a really oversized one for any future additions.

But I overdo everything...

Sent from my SPH-L720 using Tapatalk

 

[chops101]

I'm going with an Eaton 20 space 100A BR type panel for my external shop, mainly because I have two house panels in service that are BR type (Westinghouse), two sub panels that are BR type, so I want to stay in the same family for spares/convenience purposes.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

Are you replacing this panel or adding one off of it?

Also a couple of things look strange - It looks like you have 14 gauge wire on 20 amp circuits. The green bonding screw should not be on the neutral bus as this is not a service disconnect.

Where is the bonding screw? Im not seeing it!

 

[D45]

What size and/or kind of wire should be used, when running the subpanel off of a 60amp breaker (from the main 200amp panel)?

 

[volleyball]

A 20 space QO should be enough. I prefer not to use tandem breakers if possible. If your home is QO, I'd suggest staying with that.

 

[D45]

Menards has 15% off brown bag sale (whatever you can fit inside the bag)........I stocked up on breakers and some Romex

 

[wyliesdiesels]

What size and/or kind of wire should be used, when running the subpanel off of a 60amp breaker (from the main 200amp panel)?

U need either #6 THHN or #4 NM-b/Romex...If its gonna be underground, u HAVE to use the THHN...

 

[RickP]

U need either #6 THHN or #4 NM-b/Romex...If its gonna be underground, u HAVE to use the THHN/THWN...

There - FIFY

If it's underground, could he use #4 UF cable?

 

[wyliesdiesels]

There - FIFY

If it's underground, could he use #4 UF cable?

Whoops, typed it too fast. But MOST THHN nowadays is dual rated...

Yes he could use UF but its expensive and i dont think its made larger than #6...

 

[D45]

Not underground, just going through a wall

 

[scissorman]

I'm replacing a subpanel in my house garage, I was talking with a buddy who is an electrician for the last 30 years and he suggested that I buy an Eaton panel as it has the best HOT bar available. I took his advice and bought a 200A 30 circuit 40 space combo panel from HD for $148 and then bought the remainder of circuit breakers that i'll need. He also told me that the 1" wide breakers are about 40% better than the half breakers due to the width of the breaker and the contacts inside. With that info is why I bought the 30 circuit panel so that I will not use any half breakers or tandem breakers.

I would suggest changing your 60A breaker to a 100A breaker and also changing the feed wire to support it as you will probably need more than the 60A in a shop of that size.

 

[pattenp]

Not underground, just going through a wall

How many feet of wire will it take to reach the sub-panel? I think aluminum SER is the best option if you're looking at more than 25'. #2 Al SER will get you up to 90 amps. Also the #2 will fit into a 60A breaker if you want to stick with the 60A for now.

 

[D45]

Both panels are on the same wall, just on opposite sides

Maybe a total of 2-3 feet?

 

[pattenp]

Both panels are on the same wall, just on opposite sides

Maybe a total of 2-3 feet?

Well that's a no-brainer to use copper with such a short run.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

+1 on the cu!