Suggestiions on a Window Frame-

[Leaky88]

I have a 40 x 60 Pole Barn with 5 windows in it. It came with property, I DID NOT put the windows in. ALL of them leak down the sides inside onto girds. 4 of windows are like picture (2 Single-hung's side by side.)

Suggestions were made to put Drip Cap (Z-channel) on top. However there is
zero wiggle room. I tried to take the window out and everything is either nailed or glued (Installer must have gotten free supply somewhere.) Nails vice screws were used to attach the panels, so I opted not to take the sides off of the building.

I want to insulate it but cannot until this is fixed.

An old GJ posting by Hautey (sp) - with same problem - had the brown framing idea (pic) from a another member named Charles down in Alabama, I believe. I decided to go that route using 1"thick treated which I will paint. I even made template for the cut-outs on the horizontal pieces so they will **** close to siding and require minimum sealant.

Problem is, the installed window/s do not sit between the raised ribs of the siding. One lands on top of a large rib, the other does not. In my mind (which is tired and pissed off right) I'll end up with a frame that is disproportionate on the sides. (Something I will forever see, each and every time I enter the shed.)

Any suggestions/advice would be greatly appreciated.

Leaky

 

[matt_i]

The "nails vise screws" I think is an autosuggest, I'm thinking they were nailed up (?)

I think your best way is to get out a dremel tool and patiently cut the heads off the nails without damaging the metal, tricky yes, time consuming yes but the panel(s) above the windows have to come off in my opinion.

The metal flashing will last as long as the siding. Caulk-based solutions will last for awhile but never long enough, and once the wall is closed up, it could be way too long before you realize that the caulk has failed and there is a moisture problem.

Added bonus is you can use the gasketed screws when you replace the panels which is also an upgrade.

 

[Kaizen]

Oy what a pain. I would take a metal cut off wheel and make a slice across the top of the window in the siding plus a couple inches on each side. Buy or get made drip edge with four inches that can insert into the cut flat behind existing metal. Make sure you Caulk in there as well. Might also be a good idea to put black sticky flashing between both pieces. The window with the thicker green piece to the right should work but I'd do that last as it will harder due to different panels and the connection between them.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[timewarp]

Matt's correct, don't do it so you are depending on the caulking, if you are just going to put a wood surround with caulk you might as well just caulk around the window. You probably don't need to remove all the metal above the window, just remove enough nails to get the bottom edge out so you can trim it off enough to have room for a Z channel above the window and then refasten it.

 

[Leaky88]

Matt and timewarp,
Thanks. I appreciate the feedback. I am so frustrated with this mess. So many have told me Z-channel should have been used vice this method.

So, if remove just enough of the panels above the windows to get Z-channel tucked up and under top of window,
1)how do I remove the nails since they no longer have heads and
2)do I make the Z-channel so it extends out past the existing J-channel on sides or how should it be done please. Again, thanks for the feedback.

Leaky

 

[timewarp]

So, if remove just enough of the panels above the windows to get Z-channel tucked up and under top of window,

The Z-channel, tall side up under the siding and hang out over the top of the window, it doesn't go behind the window, it goes behind the siding and out over the window

1)how do I remove the nails since they no longer have heads

What do you mean no longer have heads? In your second picture it looks like a nail head by the corner of the shadow of your phone, you should be able to very carefully get a very flat bar under the head of the nail and using a wood block to pry against pull the nail out.

2)do I make the Z-channel so it extends out past the existing J-channel on sides or how should it be done please.

Yes it needs to go out slightly past the j-channel to keep the water from running down the wrong side of the j-channel. If the j-channel was done correctly it shouldn't leak. Maybe they folded the top j inside the side instead of over the outside?

see these videos for j-channel installation

I found those by searching: "trimming a window in a metal building"

there are many others if you do a search.

 

[Leaky88]

timewarp,

Thanks.

I have never installed windows on a metal building. After seeing this mess, I definitely would never have done it. I've been at this for 2 weekends now.

To clarify: Matt i suggested I remove nail heads with a Dremel. Hence, my question about removing the remainder of the nails (possibly) in a limited area with no leverage. From what I've read, they are ring-shank nails, and "current" practice is to screw the flat surface vice ridge.

 

[Leaky88]

Re: Suggestions on a Window Frame-

OK. At the risk of wearing down the patience of other members further. I have more questions and new pictures.

Since the beginning of this nightmare, I have not been able to find video's showing "Z-Channel" being installed on metal buildings, there are video's of Z-Channel being installed on regular house windows.

With considerable patience, I'm able to remove some of the Ring Shank nails without damage to existing panels. I say some, because the very top ones are under the 5" gutter 14ft up.

Included with this posting are 3 pictures Top & Front Right of "J" channel and one of the newly purchased Z-channel.

I understand the wide piece of Z-channel goes up under the metal siding and the remaining over the window.

Questions:
1)Do I trim off the front face of the existing J-Channel flush with top of window to accommodate this installation?
2)Are sheet metal snips best choice for clean cut/appearance or is there a better tool for it?
3)Is the Z-channel I have correct, or is there another Z-channel used in combination with J-Channel.

Sorry for all the questions. I've never done this type of work before, but I can and will learn. More importantly, I don't to Band-Aid, it needs to be a permanent solution. I do know uncontrolled water is one of the most damaging things for any structure.

Thanks.

Leaky

 

[timewarp]

timewarp,

Thanks.

I have never installed windows on a metal building. After seeing this mess, I definitely would never have done it. I've been at this for 2 weekends now.

To clarify: Matt i suggested I remove nail heads with a Dremel. Hence, my question about removing the remainder of the nails (possibly) in a limited area with no leverage. From what I've read, they are ring-shank nails, and "current" practice is to screw the flat surface vice ridge.

If you have to take the head off, then you can just use a punch to drive the nail in the rest of the way and leave it, your new screw with washer can go right next to the nail.

 

[timewarp]

Re: Suggestions on a Window Frame-

Since the beginning of this nightmare, I have not been able to find video's showing "Z-Channel" being installed on metal buildings, there are video's of Z-Channel being installed on regular house windows.

With considerable patience, I'm able to remove some of the Ring Shank nails without damage to existing panels. I say some, because the very top ones are under the 5" gutter 14ft up.

If you were able to remove the nails above the window then you should be able to check the existing j-channel to be sure it was installed correctly, if it's not it would be better to replace the J channel so it looks original. if you are going to install the Z-channel, I would want to install it under the top j-channel right above the window.



QUOTE=Leaky88;6359065]

2)Are sheet metal snips best choice for clean cut/appearance or is there a better tool for it?
[/QUOTE]

A circular saw is what I would use, it's going to be hard with the siding up, but it's really hard to get a nice straight cut with snips over the ridges in the panels. You need a metal cutting blade or I have use a plywood blade installed backwards so it doesn't catch and grab the tin. There has to be something wrong with the existing installation, I would try and fix that before adding the z-channel

 

[timewarp]

Re: Suggestions on a Window Frame-

More importantly, I don't to Band-Aid, it needs to be a permanent solution. I do know uncontrolled water is one of the most damaging things for any structure.

Thanks.

Leaky

Speaking of not wanting to Band-Aid it, be very careful(leather gloves help) so you don't need to Band-aid your self, that metal can be very sharp.

Good Luck!

 

[JIMBETHYNAME2]

Use an angle grinder with a cut off wheel on it to cut the siding. A skilsaw with the blade turned around gets dull fast and starts throwing teeth.
I just cut aroundthis whole building. Where the stone face starts and those big windows are new also.

 

[CTyankee]

I would suggest using coil stock and bend it up custom for your specific situation. Do you have access to a metal break? It should go between the J channel and window and come down over the the top of the window tirm. Does the window have an intact flange all around it?

 

[matt_i]

Another form of Z-flashing is "drip cap"....look that up for more information.

I did as CT Yankee suggests and bent my own drip caps from coil stock. I used vinyl siding but the concept is rather similar.

 

[Leaky88]

I appreciate everyone's input. A friend once told me the perfect way to ruin a building was to install windows. Think he had something there.

Not sure what I need to do anymore. Got a closer look at Top Right J. It "is" bent over, not under, the right side J (see pic). However, the other pic is the nearly black inside Gird, directly below. The other side is nearly identical as are all of the windows.

My applications of silicone slowed it down, but as discussed there can be no known moisture threats prior to wall closures.

The farm area I live in is open and high winds and rain often result in a stream from the sides of the windows. ALL 5 of them. The previous owner only used the Poll Barn to store vehicles, so he probably never really notice it.

Above is a picture of the grey Z-flashing I bought. I was led to believe Z-Flashing and Drip Cap were synonymous. Right, Wrong?

I'm pretty sure I could locate a metal brake to fabricate something if it comes down to that.

Leaky