Suggestions for Budget-Oriented, Reliable Tools

[Ridge Runner]

Yes, I know, the title's a bit of an oxymoron.

Here's the deal. I'm wanting to open a hot rod shop one day, and since I can't take a job at someone else's shop right now (long story, but I won't leave and screw over the man who just hired me a few months ago), I'm looking for a place to rent to work on my own toys and get some experience. 1970 Blazer I'm doing an LS and 6L80 swap in, hopefully coilover suspension and a 1956 Chevy truck I'm converting to AWD with a 455 Olds. I used to be a mechanic, so I'm pretty well set on hand tools. However, there are a few bigger things that I need to get. For the most part, I live by buy quality, buy once, but a couple of the things I won't be using hard at first I'm willing to compromise on. So, if you could give me a recommended brand and preferably a model and price range, I'd be much obliged.

1) Welder - Miller 252, local shop sells them for $2500, but they were on eBay for $2100 delivered and no tax.
2) Bottle - I can rent a 250 cu. ft. bottle for $75/year plus $72 to fill or buy an 80 cu. ft. one for $250 and have it filled for $40. I don't know how fast I'll go through one, so I'm tempted to get the 250. According to my local supplier, it's illegal to sell anything bigger than 80 CF.
3) Air Compressor - I always figured to initially use a decent Craftsman one, but the way company is anymore, I'm not so sure. I don't anticipate needing a very big one for now. Just going to run an impact, cut-off wheel, pneumatic hammer, and maybe a drill and nibbler.
4) Drill - One thing I've held off on buying because I had no idea what would best suit me. Should I go electric or pneumatic? Cordless or not? Brand?
5) Drill Bits - I'll likely be getting a spot weld cutter, but other than that, I'm lost. I'll almost certainly be drilling through truck frames once in a while.
6) Jack - I hate to spend $100-$200 here, but I'm wary of cheap ones, even if I will be using jack stands.
7) Sawzall - Not at the top of my list, but I may buy it if it's needed.
8) 4.5" Grinder - What I had in mind when I was talking about buying cheap. I don't plan on using it very hard, so I was thinking about an expendable Black and Decker or something for now.

Anything else you can think of that I'll need? I've got a cherry picker and for now I'll use a cheep creeper.

Thanks in advance.

 

[fivespdcat]

The best answer is lightly used stuff. Estate sales and craigslist are you're friends. As for tools it depends on what you're doing.

 

[Ridge Runner]

Sorry, I meant to specify that in this area, Craigslist and other media generally **** for tools. They're all either junk or irrelevant to me.

 

[fivespdcat]

I guess that's the problem living in a "growth" area. Over here in the Midwest there are shops and vocational schools closing or re-tooling and you can get some smoking deals talking to the right people. It could be worth the drive though to outfit a whole shop!

 

[crewchief888]

Yes, I know, the title's a bit of an oxymoron.

Here's the deal. I'm wanting to open a hot rod shop one day, and since I can't take a job at someone else's shop right now (long story, but I won't leave and screw over the man who just hired me a few months ago), I'm looking for a place to rent to work on my own toys and get some experience. 1970 Blazer I'm doing an LS and 6L80 swap in, hopefully coilover suspension and a 1956 Chevy truck I'm converting to AWD with a 455 Olds. I used to be a mechanic, so I'm pretty well set on hand tools. However, there are a few bigger things that I need to get. For the most part, I live by buy quality, buy once, but a couple of the things I won't be using hard at first I'm willing to compromise on. So, if you could give me a recommended brand and preferably a model and price range, I'd be much obliged.

1) Welder - Miller 252,

probably a good choice
2) Bottle - take your pick
3) Air Compressor - I always figured to initially use a decent Craftsman one, but the way company is anymore, I'm not so sure. I don't anticipate needing a very big one for now. Just going to run an impact, cut-off wheel, pneumatic hammer, and maybe a drill and nibbler.
you can "get by" with a smaller compressor for an impact, and maybe a hammer, the other air tools you list are air hogs
4) Drill - One thing I've held off on buying because I had no idea what would best suit me. Should I go electric or pneumatic? Cordless or not? Brand?
personally i'd get more than one, a li-ion cordless, 3/8" & 1/2" corded
5) Drill Bits - I'll likely be getting a spot weld cutter, but other than that, I'm lost. I'll almost certainly be drilling through truck frames once in a while.
dont buy the cheapest bits you find, stock up on 1/8" bits for drilling pilot holes, the rest of your bits will be happier
6) Jack - I hate to spend $100-$200 here, but I'm wary of cheap ones, even if I will be using jack stands.
cant help you with a jack, we use HF 6t jackstands at the shop, i have 2 sets at home, and a set in my service truck
7) Sawzall - Not at the top of my list, but I may buy it if it's needed.
not a bad thing to have around, i have an old CM
8) 4.5" Grinder - What I had in mind when I was talking about buying cheap. I don't plan on using it very hard, so I was thinking about an expendable Black and Decker or something for now.
this is somethig you'll probably use more than you think, i have 4 right now, dewalt, hitachi, & 2 hf

Anything else you can think of that I'll need? I've got a cherry picker and for now I'll use a cheep creeper.

Thanks in advance.

other things you might want to consider, (and what i have)
chop saw (ridgid)
magnetic angle guage (unknown from HD)
AD welding hood (miller pro hobby)
hole saws (matco & ridgid)
bench grinder (ryobi, but i dont recommend the gutless pos)
tool stands for the chopsaw, & grinder (HF)
roller support stand for the chop saw (HF)
drill press nice, but not "required"
bench vise if you dont have a drill press
small torch set nice to have around, just in case

my corded drills are both B&D
spreading out your purchases, watching for sales or clearance items saves a little bit of cash. it adds up after a while.
flea mkts, garage sales, swap meets and pawn shops can be your friend.

nearly all my electric powertools died during the construction of my s-10 project

over the period of 6 or 8 months, drills, grinders got replaced, grinding wheels, and sanding disks were found at an estate sale.
only thing i've had to replace (again) was the chop saw from HF, it died a horrible smoking death, after cutting enough steel for 3 cages, rock sliders, and 2 sets of bumpers.

have fun

 

[toolmaker1]

i have had good luck with the cheap ryobi angle grinders, I keep several on hand so I don't have to change wheels

 

[Sureshot]

I like Makita corded tools and Ridgid cordless. I found the 4.5" grinders a far cry from a 5". I have a 5" with zip disc's and a 2-7", one with wire wheel and one with grinder. Had a couple 4.5" and they just didn't last.
I have bought many tools on ebay and had great success. I generally won't go over half of new price with shipping so if I get a dud it is not the end of the world.
As for a compressor I would concentrate on the compressor not the tank then when you get your own shop you can get a bigger tank and add it anywhere in the system.

http://www.eaglecompressor.com/air_compressor_model.php?recordID=184

http://www.eaglecompressor.com/air_compressor_model.php?recordID=204

I have the big tank one but would buy the portable next time and put it under a bench or where ever and put a tank out of the way somewhere and have the best of both worlds.

Buy two sets of bits. I have a "good" set and I have some contractor packs with a bunch of the smaller sizes in bulk. You don't want a broken bit in an expensive piece or break an expensive bit drilling rivet holes in tin. The better bits tend to be more "brittle" and I almost exclusively use them in the drill press if possible.

 

[IndyGarage]

I wouldn't bother with a Miller 252 to start with if you are on a budget. Go for a Hobart 187 or their newer 190 model. I think they run about $600-700 new. Used ones go for $400-500. Unless you are welding heavy plate all day, the difference between the 187 and the 251 is negligible, and many say the Hobart actually lays down a better bead.

Air compressor - I picked up a 35 year old Champion 3 phase 80 gallon unit in perfect working condition for $250. I also bought a like new snap on 80 gallon compressor for $900. Used is the way to go on compressors.

Drill - I'd get a good cordless set from any of the name brands - Makita, Dewault, Milwaukee, Bosch - and then go for an older used drill press.

Jack - actually I've always used the China made cheap one that I bought 30 years ago. I think the new China ones seem even cheaper. I'd stay away from the aluminum ones. You can find a used jack too if you look around. Make sure you buy some good jack stands to go with it.

Sawsall - will save you a lot of time hacksawing. You might also consider a portaband saw if you are doing a lot of fabricating.

4.5 inch grinder. The best deal in a decent 4.5 inch grinder right now is the rat tail 4.5 Porter Cable at Lowes for $39.99. It's got a 7.5 amp motor and pulls pretty hard. I bought two of them and worked them hard, with a twisted wire brush removing rust. I also have a couple of Boschs and a couple of Makitas a Hitachi, a Harbor freight and an offshore one with the Kawasaki name on it. I would rank them this way from best to worst - PC is best, then Makita, Hitachi, Bosch, HF and Kawasaki. The Kawasaki on/off switch broke the first time I used it. The HF cost about $20 and worked for about 5 years before it's switch gave out. The grinder still works fine. The Boschs work smoothly, but start groaning under heavy work. Makitas are smooth but seem to be low on power.

Actually the best deal I've found on grinders is I recently bought a 15 amp 7 inch Hitachi at Lowes for $89.00. I was about to buy an equivalent Milwaukee for $165 and saw this one and thought I'd try it. The difference between the 7 inch and the 4 1/2 inch ones is striking. I thought the 15 amp would be hard to handle - it's not - it's real nice with a smooth start and the power is just always there. The only problem with it is it's really heavy. You can't really use it for overhead or even vertical grinding for very long - at least I can't.

Other tools I'd recommend: 1. good heavy bench and bench vise. You'll use this more than you can imagine. 2. Bench grinder with stone on one side and wire brush on the other. 3. 9 inch disk and 48 inch belt sander - stationary floor stand model. I've got a china made one of these that's at least 25 years old. It rattles and clatters like it's going to fly apart, but it keeps running.

 

[Mercy]

Other tools I'd recommend: 1. good heavy bench and bench vise. You'll use this more than you can imagine.

I second the bench and vice, and add some good clamps. I just used mine yesterday straightening an ATV rack that had some personal time with a tree.

 

[Strouty]

As for the welder, have you thought about a miller 211? It should be about $1050 and it runs off 110 or 220. It will weld 3/8" steel on 220 volts in one pass. If a hot rod shop needs to weld thicker than that, I would be surprised. It would be a great starting point and it will still have good resale value if you need to upgrade later. As for the bottle, ask them about 3 or 5 year leases. My local company offers a one year for $55 and a five year for $130, needles to say all my tanks are on 5 year leases. I would also say that the air compressor is where I would put most of your money, go with an ingersoll rand. Tractor supply has them and you can get a 10% discount with the coupon from the flyers. I would get as big as you can afford. I have a 7.5 HP one and it isn't big enough for me. 5 HP should be the minimum if you really want to run air tools in a shop.

 

[darkk]

X2 on the Miller 211 welder
Gas bottle, I bought the 60-80 cu one, it's cheaper and lasts quite a while.
compressor, try to find a 5hp 2 stage. you'd be surprised how much air a die grinder uses...
Spot weld cutters....buy a few, they are very brittle and break easy if you aren't real careful
Buy a decent jack, ALWAYS USE JACK STANDS!!ALWAYS!! buy good ones!
saws, cheap is ok for a while...
Oh! in case I didn't mention it, ALWAYS USE JACK STANDS!!

 

[IndyGarage]

X2 on the Miller 211 welder
Gas bottle, I bought the 60-80 cu one, it's cheaper and lasts quite a while.
compressor, try to find a 5hp 2 stage. you'd be surprised how much air a die grinder uses...
Spot weld cutters....buy a few, they are very brittle and break easy if you aren't real careful
Buy a decent jack, ALWAYS USE JACK STANDS!!ALWAYS!! buy good ones!
saws, cheap is ok for a while...
Oh! in case I didn't mention it, ALWAYS USE JACK STANDS!!

Miller 211 is a great welder, but as I said before, Hobart 187/190 is a better buy - $600-700 new vs $1100 and essentially the same work capacity. The Miller has the 110v feature and it has autoset and has 15 more amps - but to me those features aren't' worth 80% more money.

 

[91bronc300]

My welder vote is for a Hobart Ironman 230. Should be all the mig you will ever need and has a nice fat duty cycle where you would do almost all of your welding. Northern tool has a package deal that comes with a 20" spool gun for about $1700. I have a smaller Hobart mig but I want this one. I just don't have 1700 bucks right now.

 

[darkk]

Miller 211 is a great welder, but as I said before, Hobart 187/190 is a better buy - $600-700 new vs $1100 and essentially the same work capacity. The Miller has the 110v feature and it has autoset and has 15 more amps - but to me those features aren't' worth 80% more money.

I got the Miller 211 with the spool gun kit and consumables on holiday special new delivered for around $1100 I think you can get a regular no added kit in the $1000 range so it's not that much more. I just have a preference for Miller because it's what I've used all my life. The Hobart is a good welder also...

 

[Ridge Runner]

Thanks for the help, guys. I'm partial to Miller and Lincoln since that's what I've used, but I'll look into the Hobart. I'll also check out the Miller 211. The 252 would be nice, but it sounds like the 211 will do pretty much everything I need at half the price.

I'm a fan of Ingersoll Rand and had forgotten that Tractor Supply carries them. The only problem with getting a big compressor is I'm not sure how long I'll be here. I'm not wanting to stay here more than a year or two. How loud are the Ingersolls? I plan on keeping my good hearing, so I wear earplugs, but compressors can still get annoying. This would probably be what I get were I to buy a large one from Tractor Supply.

Bench and vise are a given, I just need to find them. And yes, I always use jack stands. Just bought two pair the other day.

 

[eljefino]

Yes, I know, the title's a bit of an oxymoron.

3) Air Compressor - I always figured to initially use a decent Craftsman one, but the way company is anymore, I'm not so sure. I don't anticipate needing a very big one for now. Just going to run an impact, cut-off wheel, pneumatic hammer, and maybe a drill and nibbler.

What's your wiring situation? If you have three phase you might get a steal on a used compressor... less competition shopping as fewer people have wiring that can handle it. If you eventually have employees or worker's comp insurance check your laws for "boiler vessels" eg huge tanks.

4) Drill - One thing I've held off on buying because I had no idea what would best suit me. Should I go electric or pneumatic? Cordless or not? Brand?

Don't get Hitachi! They know their gearbox is so cheezy the manual says they won't warranty it if you push it hard. I would mix corded and cordless; if you're drilling through a frame it might be many minutes which could overheat a battery.

5) Drill Bits - I'll likely be getting a spot weld cutter, but other than that, I'm lost. I'll almost certainly be drilling through truck frames once in a while.
6) Jack - I hate to spend $100-$200 here, but I'm wary of cheap ones, even if I will be using jack stands.

I use the 10 packs of 1/8 bits from lowes. I'm starting bigger holes through spring shackle rivets with these and each one lasts fairly long.

For service jacks, the current "steal" is a china craftsman 3 ton when caught on sale. Only bummer with mine is touchy lowering. Thing is 97 lbs or so!

7) Sawzall - Not at the top of my list, but I may buy it if it's needed.
8) 4.5" Grinder - What I had in mind when I was talking about buying cheap. I don't plan on using it very hard, so I was thinking about an expendable Black and Decker or something for now.

If you're going to do exhaust, get a sawzall and nice blades. "The Torch" has a good rep. I'd get a few grinders so you don't have to change stones for wheels.

Anything else you can think of that I'll need? I've got a cherry picker and for now I'll use a cheep creeper.

Thanks in advance.

Lights! Cordless, corded, and overhead. LEDs are getting better every month. Get a flashlight with CREE bulb, you'll be very happy.

 

[Ridge Runner]

Giving this a bump since I'm about to start buying some stuff. Lots of good information in here!

I'm curious, what does 2 stage mean on a compressor? Also, it seems like Quincy is a good brand, but I'm not familiar with them. Are they any better than IR or about the same?

 

[Bikes&Bowties]

As far as I know quincy is better or at least as good as comparable IR compressors!

 

[Ridge Runner]

well, life doesn't always go as planned.

Thought I had a place to rent, but the realtor screwed me over. This was my last option for having a place to work, so I'm SOL for now. Got pissed off and bought an '87 FJ60 which I'm working on bringing up to daily driver status. There are worse things to blow your money on.

Anyways, the new plan is to save up $10,000, move somewhere and get a day job, then use the $10k to buy tools. At this point, the welder will likely be a Miller 211 or 252 and the air compressor will be a Quincy 80 gallon, unless I'm lucky enough to get a place wired for 3 phase. Most likely getting a JD Squared tubing bender as well.

Anyways, just wanted to give this a bump and see what y'all recommended with the new budget.

 

[Ridge Runner]

bump

 

[crewchief888]

same as before

set the xtra money aside, you may run into something toolwise you need.

 

[wafrederick]

Don't rent the tanks,buy them knowing you are the owner of them.There are two welding supply places in my area Lake welding which rents the tanks.Bad side is they don't track if the tank is stolen.The other place Praxair,the customer buys the tank and is tracked when the tank ever gets stolen.

 

[fourtythree]

Jack...the Arcan that Costco sells.