Suggestions on heating my pole shed

[dae06]

I just built a 36' x 56', 14' high pole shed. I plan on pouring concrete next spring. I need advice on how to heat it.

I was thinking of putting in radiant floor heat, but after reading on this site, I am a little hesitant since I have read that I would really need to keep it heated pretty much all of the time. I'm sick of needing to work on cars and trucks etc., in the winter time with ice cold floors. Since I can't predict when my equipment will need repair, I would need to heat it continuously, correct?.?.

Should I pour the floor with 2" foam under the slab no matter what I may use for heat in the future?

Do I put the pex in the floor just in case (could be a big waste of money if never used).

I'm not sure what the best option is for me. I live in Minnesota, last weeks high was -8F.

Any and all suggestions are appreciated.

Thanks

 

[matt_i]

Imo, radiant is nice and comfy but intended for 100% operation during heating season. You pay a large premium up-front for the hardware & insulation and then get the payback in future years in economical heating.

Also imo, the best initial bang-for-the-buck is natural gas forced-air heat.

Maybe you should install a vehicle lift so you don't have to work on the floor...

 

[astroracer]

My shop is 30 x 74. I have one bay walled in and insulated. 26 x 30. That is the part I heat during the winter. The rest is cold storage. I have forced air natural gas and I keep it around 50-52 degrees. Warm enough to work if I'm just puttering or, if I plan on an all dayer, I bump it to 60 and am very comfortable.
You may want to think about doing that with your shop. Close in one bay and only heat that part to work in.
Mark

 

[Radix2]

How exactly do you see using the building - letting it get completely cold between uses or keeping it just frost free at say 40 ?

If you want any heating ever, you need to insulate the floor. What about wall and ceiling insulation? Ridge vents?

With forced air and 14' walls, it is very hard to get warm down to the ground, radiant floors or IR are popular due to this issue.

 

[dae06]

Imo, radiant is nice and comfy but intended for 100% operation during heating season. You pay a large premium up-front for the hardware & insulation and then get the payback in future years in economical heating.

Also imo, the best initial bang-for-the-buck is natural gas forced-air heat.

Maybe you should install a vehicle lift so you don't have to work on the floor...

Ha ha!!! I have just been researching lifts. That will be my next thread on this site I'm sure.

They are affordable the way it looks.

 

[dae06]

How exactly do you see using the building - letting it get completely cold between uses or keeping it just frost free at say 40 ?

If you want any heating ever, you need to insulate the floor. What about wall and ceiling insulation? Ridge vents?

With forced air and 14' walls, it is very hard to get warm down to the ground, radiant floors or IR are popular due to this issue.

Ideally I will want to keep it above freezing, but have no idea what costs would be entailed to do this up here in the North.

The pole shed is book shelved and ready for insulation. I will blow in the ceiling insulation when the time comes.

 

[derkperk]

Infloor radiant is expensive upfront but way worth it in the long term. You only have one chance to install it, before you put the slab.

This is the first year I have heated my pole building, 40x55. I also live in MN, West of the cities. I installed 2200' of 1/2" pex in the floor on top of 2" foam. I have a Lochinvar cadet heating the slab. The other week it kept up just fine with the space at 45°. Floor and vehicles were dry! I also have a 100k BTU hanging ng unit heater which I plan on using to warm up the space quickly when I'm in there. So, keep the space at an idle 40 and crank it up to 55-60 while working.

Sent from my XT1565 using Tapatalk

 

[dae06]

Infloor radiant is expensive upfront but way worth it in the long term. You only have one chance to install it, before you put the slab.

This is the first year I have heated my pole building, 40x55. I also live in MN, West of the cities. I installed 2200' of 1/2" pex in the floor on top of 2" foam. I have a Lochinvar cadet heating the slab. The other week it kept up just fine with the space at 45°. Floor and vehicles were dry! I also have a 100k BTU hanging ng unit heater which I plan on using to warm up the space quickly when I'm in there. So, keep the space at an idle 40 and crank it up to 55-60 while working.

Sent from my XT1565 using Tapatalk

Good to know, thanks.

 

[dae06]

derkperk- if you wanted to work in there the entire day, any idea how long it would take to bring the temp up to 60 from the 40 degree temp.?

 

[derkperk]

With just the infloor? I keep the system temp setpoint low, like 70 so the boiler runs a real low fire. If I cranked it to 100, I'd say just a couple hours at most to bring the space up 20 degrees.

Sent from my XT1565 using Tapatalk

 

[dandan111]

My buddy has a floor heat system in his barn. He says it costs to much to run for
limited use. He has a wood stove he uses when he's out there.

 

[dae06]

My buddy has a floor heat system in his barn. He says it costs to much to run for
limited use. He has a wood stove he uses when he's out there.

That's what I'm worried about.

Any idea how well his barn is insulated?

 

[dandan111]

Looks like a quality pole barn. Insualted. He has a lift and what not. He bought the place
with the barn there. He loves it and realizes the price paid to install/ set up. Just can't
Justify heating it all the time. Don't think it's a system you just turn on and heat the building up in a few hours. Damn nice if you run it though.

 

[dae06]

I'd be curious to hear from anyone what it costs them to heat a shed/garage using in floor radiant heat.

What temp they keep it at when not using the building.
How the building is insulated.
How long it takes to bring the temp up to the desired temp.
BTU output of the system
Any other relevant factors.

In my case I would increase the temp during the weekend and keep it less warm during the week. At least 45F-50F during the week. My shed will have 6" fiberglass batting on the walls and blown insulation in the ceiling (not sure how much at this point). Would like to hear costs from others to heat there sheds/shops throughout the cold season (and what part of the country they live) to give me an idea.

Thanks

 

[kj_mustang]

Radiant floor heat is a turn on and set it and leave it alone type of heat system. It will depend on the BTU output of the system and how well the building is insulated as to how fast that system can raise the temperature a few degrees. Every system is different.

 

[matt_i]

The "magic" of radiant floor is that it simply uses less heat energy while making your comfort level same or higher.

In my opinion, "heating air" got started about the time that people got tired of carrying wood & coal across the living room floor and instead put furnaces in the basement. You can see the effect in the design of old factory buildings, which were built vertically as multi-story affairs so the heat could rise thru the entire building, keeping costs down, despite being directionally wrong for so many other manufacturing reasons.

Heating air still works very well but bottom line it uses more energy. Have to rough out some numbers to decide where the payback point will be.

 

[dae06]

The "magic" of radiant floor is that it simply uses less heat energy while making your comfort level same or higher.

In my opinion, "heating air" got started about the time that people got tired of carrying wood & coal across the living room floor and instead put furnaces in the basement. You can see the effect in the design of old factory buildings, which were built vertically as multi-story affairs so the heat could rise thru the entire building, keeping costs down, despite being directionally wrong for so many other manufacturing reasons.

Heating air still works very well but bottom line it uses more energy. Have to rough out some numbers to decide where the payback point will be.

I would love to have a nice warm floor to work on or even stand on.

 

[matt_i]

My justification was easy, there was a 100k natural gas forced air furnace already in my shop that I am expanding to the other new addition that I built.

I looked at floor radiant but it seemed to be $1000 for XPS sub-slab insulation, $750 for the PEX, $1000 for the manifold/pump/controls, $1000 for a commercial water heater + chimney, more for a low-pressure boiler. Just round numbers for sure but it was in the ballpark of $5k by the time all of the materials were acquired...others will likely have different experiences but I stopped my analysis there.

 

[Randy in Maine]

Plan on about $1 per square foot for the 2" of insulation (you install) = ~ $2,000 and $0.50 per square foot of building for the 1/2" pex =~ $1,000.

I figure you are about 2,000 square feet so I would plan on 8 loops of 1/2" pex each about 250 square feet. Assuming it is one zone, you would have all 8 loops coming into and leaving from a single manifold, so 2 of those.

How far away is the building from your house and how do you heat it? I just ran a 3/4" pex line to and from my shop's manifolds to my existing house condensing boiler. That was cheap to do so and allowed me not to have a source of fire in my shop. The fire insurance company really loved that part.

Good insulation really pays off though. I am super insulated (using SIPS)and my set up is very cheap to heat all winter (November to April)

 

[2012Eli3]

I have 32x56x14.5 located by state line 4 miles from lake Michigan. Natural gas fired boiler radiant in floor system. 1 12x13 and 1 8x8 insulated OH doors 1 steel door 2 3'x4' windows. system installed October 2015. No wall or ceiling insulation when installed. Turned it on set at 50* and left it all winter while I started doing wall insulation and tinkering with other stuff. Highest bill was around 100$ for 1 month. 18$ of that is service fee for non-residential service. Finished 1.5" rigid with 1" closed cell spray foam on walls R-40 cellulose blown in ceiling this summer. Set thermostat at 60* and left it start of November this year. Bill was 44$ for November including service fee. No ceiling fans yet, OH doors weather strip/trim has daylight visible on sides, found out steel door jam not insulated, windows not the best etc.. When I get home after New Years should have December bill when temps were around 32 to -10, stat still at 60* so I could get idea what it will cost for that comfort level. It is quiet. When stat satisfied air temp will continue higher since its radiating out of floor. When up on ladders working on interior liner can't wear more than t-shirt and thin pants or instant sweat beads start rolling. Most days system will not turn on for 7-8 hours unless OH doors being used. Will send you other system info and cost after New Years. Yes I have drunk the radiant heat cool aid.

 

[dae06]

I have 32x56x14.5 located by state line 4 miles from lake Michigan. Natural gas fired boiler radiant in floor system. 1 12x13 and 1 8x8 insulated OH doors 1 steel door 2 3'x4' windows. system installed October 2015. No wall or ceiling insulation when installed. Turned it on set at 50* and left it all winter while I started doing wall insulation and tinkering with other stuff. Highest bill was around 100$ for 1 month. 18$ of that is service fee for non-residential service. Finished 1.5" rigid with 1" closed cell spray foam on walls R-40 cellulose blown in ceiling this summer. Set thermostat at 60* and left it start of November this year. Bill was 44$ for November including service fee. No ceiling fans yet, OH doors weather strip/trim has daylight visible on sides, found out steel door jam not insulated, windows not the best etc.. When I get home after New Years should have December bill when temps were around 32 to -10, stat still at 60* so I could get idea what it will cost for that comfort level. It is quiet. When stat satisfied air temp will continue higher since its radiating out of floor. When up on ladders working on interior liner can't wear more than t-shirt and thin pants or instant sweat beads start rolling. Most days system will not turn on for 7-8 hours unless OH doors being used. Will send you other system info and cost after New Years. Yes I have drunk the radiant heat cool aid.

I don't mind those numbers a bit!! Thanks

 

[2012Eli3]

Bill ending January 4th $ 82.00. shows avg temp for period 25*. Takagi boiler model T-H3M-DV 120,000 BTU Output temp set at 130* return is high 60's at start and middle 70's when stat satisfied. Flow rate 2.3-2.4 GPM. Distilled water/glycol mix closed system 1 zone.